China Thinks It Can Defeat America in Battle

[ChineseTiger1986]

China military is at least 40-50 years behind USA.

USA started designing stealth planes from 1970 and started using them from 1980's, China doesn't even have it till now (Except for few test mules). Same thing goes for Nuclear submarine, Aircraft carrier, etc.



Yep, they did with USSR.

You are definitely clueless, there is nothing I can discuss with you.

 

[Azeri440]

Our conquest already succeeded, just like UK succeeded. We have been an empire for thousands of years. Now we are more powerful than ever in history!!!



We spanked Philippines when we grabbed Scarborough Shoal from them. USA did nothing to protect their ally. We spanked Japan when we do incursions into their so-called territorial sea and airspace. USA talked big but did nothing. We spanked Vietnam when we drilled for oil in their EEZ and they could do nothing about it after boasting about all their military hardware purchased from Russia. We spanked India just last week when Modi overplayed his hand badly triggering a small skirmish in Demchok around the irrigation canal. We even spank US Navy with our attack on USS Cowpens and their P-8 Poseidens.

Nothing can stop our rise. Our excellent civilization is too great for others on this planet to observe except in total awe

I think Japan did a bigger spanking in WW2

 

[TheMatador]

I think Japan did a bigger spanking in WW2

But our spanking of Turks continues today

 

[Azeri440]

But our spanking of Turks continues today

I don't think Japan pretty much massacring your population is comparable to your government killing a few

 

[TheMatador]

I don't think Japan pretty much massacring your population is comparable to your government killing a few

Actually, we can massacre as many or as few of your Turk brothers as we wish.

 

[JohnyD]

with full powered America in battle, not even half of the countries on earth put together, can defeat today's America!

 

[AgentOrange]

By David Axe
September 24, 2014

But Beijing seems to be overlooking U.S. submarines

The bad news first. The People’s Republic of China now believes it can successfully prevent the United States from intervening in the event of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan or some other military assault by Beijing.

Now the good news. China is wrong—and for one major reason. It apparently disregards the decisive power of America’s nuclear-powered submarines.

Moreover, for economic and demographic reasons Beijing has a narrow historical window in which to use its military to alter the world’s power structure. If China doesn’t make a major military move in the next couple decades, it probably never will.

The U.S. Navy’s submarines—the unsung main defenders of the current world order—must hold the line against China for another 20 years. After that, America can declare a sort of quiet victory in the increasingly chilly Cold War with China.
How China Wins
The bad news came from Lee Fuell, from the U.S. Air Force’s National Air and Space Intelligence Center, during Fuell’s testimony before the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission earlier this year.
For years, Chinese military planning assumed that any attack by the People’s Liberation Army on Taiwan or a disputed island would have to begin with a Pearl Harbor-style preemptive missile strike by China against U.S. forces in Japan and Guam. The PLA was so afraid of overwhelming American intervention that it genuinely believed it could not win unless the Americans were removed from the battlefield before the main campaign even began.
A preemptive strike was, needless to say, a highly risky proposition. If it worked, the PLA just might secure enough space and time to defeat defending troops, seize territory and position itself for a favorable post-war settlement.
But if China failed to disable American forces with a surprise attack, Beijing could find itself fighting a full-scale war on at least two fronts: against the country it was invading plus the full might of U.S. Pacific Command, fully mobilized and probably strongly backed by the rest of the world.

That was then. But after two decades of sustained military modernization, the Chinese military has fundamentally changed its strategy in just the last year or so. According to Fuell, recent writings by PLA officers indicate “a growing confidence within the PLA that they can more-readily withstand U.S. involvement.”
stated on its Website.Unseen and unheard. That why the sub force calls itself the “Silent Service.”

The Navy has 74 submarines, 60 of which are attack or missile submarines optimized for finding and sinking other ships or blasting land targets. The balance is ballistic-missile boats that carry nuclear missiles and would not routinely participate in military campaigns short of an atomic World War III.

Thirty-three of the attack and missile boats belong to the Pacific Fleet, with major bases in Washington State, California, Hawaii and Guam. Deploying for six months or so roughly every year and a half, America’s Pacific subs frequently stop over in Japan and South Korea and occasionally evenventure under the Arctic ice.

According to Adm. Cecil Haney, the former commander of Pacific Fleet subs, on any given day 17 boats are underway and eight are “forward-deployed,” meaning they are on station in a potential combat zone. To the Pacific Fleet, that pretty much means waters near China.

America has several submarine types. The numerous Los Angeles-class attack boats are Cold War stalwarts that are steadily being replaced by newerVirginia-class boats with improved stealth and sensors. The secretiveSeawolfs, numbering just three—all of them in the Pacific—are big, fast and more heavily armed than other subs. The Ohio-class missile submarines are former ballistic missile boats each packing 154 cruise missile.
U.S. subs are, on average, bigger, faster, quieter and more powerful than the rest of the world’s subs. And there are more of them. The U.K. is building just seven new Astute attack boats. Russia aims to maintain around 12 modern attack subs. China is struggling to deploy a handful of rudimentary nuclear boats.

Able to lurk silently under the waves and strike suddenly with torpedoes and missiles, submarines have tactical and strategic effect greatly disproportionate to their relatively small numbers. During the 1982 Falklands War, the British sub Conqueror torpedoed and sank theArgentine cruiser General Belgrano, killing 323 men. The sinking kept the rest of the Argentine fleet bottled up for the duration of the conflict.

America’s eight-at-a-time submarine picket in or near Chinese waters could be equally destructive to Chinese military plans, especially considering the PLA’s limited anti-submarine skills. “Although China might control the surface of the sea around Taiwan, its ability to find and sink U.S. submarines will be extremely limited for the foreseeable future,” Cliff testified. “Those submarines would likely be able to intercept and sink Chinese amphibious transports as they transited toward Taiwan.”

So it almost doesn’t matter that a modernized PLA thinks it possesses the means to fight America above the waves, on land and in the air. If it can’t safely sail an invasion fleet as part of its territorial ambitions, it can’t achieve its strategic goals—capturing Taiwan and or some island also claimed by a neighboring country—through overtly military means.

That reality should inform Washington’s own strategy. As the United States has already largely achieved the world order it struggled for over the last century, it need only preserve and defend this order. In other words, America has the strategic high ground against China, as the latter must attack and alter the world in order to get what it wants.

In practical military terms, that means the Pentagon can more or less ignore most of China’s military capabilities, including those that appear to threaten traditional U.S. advantages in nukes, air warfare, mechanized ground operations and surface naval maneuvers.

“We won’t invade China, so ground forces don’t play,” pointed out Wayne Hughes, a professor at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School. “We won’t conduct a first nuclear strike. We should not adopt an air-sea strike plan against the mainland, because that is a sure way to start World War IV.”

Rather, America must deny the Chinese free access to their near waters. “We need only enough access to threaten a war at sea,” Hughes said. In his view, a fleet optimized for countering China would have large numbers of small surface ships for enforcing a trade blockade. But the main combatants would be submarines, “to threaten destruction of all Chinese warships and commercial vessels in the China Seas.”

Cliff estimated that in wartime, each American submarine would be able to get off “a few torpedo shots” before needing to “withdraw for self-preservation.” But assuming eight subs each fire three torpedoes, and just half those torpedoes hit, the American attack boats could destroy all of China’s major amphibious ships—and with them, Beijing’s capacity for invading Taiwan or seizing a disputed island.

Waiting Out the Chinese Decline

If American subs can hold the line for another 20 years, China might age right out of its current, aggressive posture without ever having attacked anyone. That’s because economic and demographic trends in China point towards a rapidly aging population, flattening economic growth and fewer resources available for military modernization.To be fair, almost all developed countries are also experiencing this aging, slowing and increasing peacefulness. But China’s trends are pronounced owing to a particularly steep drop in the birth rate traceable back to the Chinese Communist Party’s one-child policy.

Another factor is the unusual speed with which the Chinese economy has expanded to its true potential, thanks to the focused investment made possible by an authoritarian government … and also thanks to that government’s utter disregard for the natural environment and for the rights of everyday Chinese people.

“The economic model that propelled China through three decades of meteoric growth appears unsustainable,” Andrew Erickson, a Naval War College analyst, told the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.

What Erickson described as China’s “pent-up national potential” could begin expiring as early as 2030, by which point “China will have world’s highest proportion of people over 65,” he predicted. “An aging society with rising expectations, burdened with rates of chronic diseases exacerbated by sedentary lifestyles, will probably divert spending from both military development and the economic growth that sustains it.”

Wisely, American political and military leaders have made the investments necessary to sustain U.S. undersea power for at least that long. After a worrying dip in submarine production, starting in 2012 the Pentagon asked for—and Congress funded—the acquisition of two Virginia-class submarines per year for around $2.5 billion apiece, a purchase rate adequate to maintain the world’s biggest nuclear submarine fleet indefinitely.
The Pentagon is also improving the Virginia design, adding undersea-launched drones,extra missile capacity and potentially a new anti-ship missile.
Given China’s place in the world, its underlying national trends and America’s pointed advantage in just that aspect of military power that’s especially damaging to Chinese plans, it seems optimistic for PLA officers to assume they can launch an attack on China’s neighbors without first knocking out U.S. forces.

Not that a preemptive strike would make any difference, as the only American forces that truly matter for containing China are the very ones that China cannot reach.

For they are deep underwater.

Indian Strategic Studies: China Thinks It Can Defeat America in Battle

Curious. I don't see anywhere where an actual Chinese general or politician says they think they can defeat the United States. Nor do I see any Chinese people claiming military invincibility. If anything, Chinese leaders have consistently maintained that the United States armed forces hold a considerable edge over the Chinese military in nearly every aspect, usually by a couple of decades at minimum.

What I do see is an article that says Chinese planners are apparently so daft that they failed to take into consideration the world's most powerful submarine fleet (USN) during any of their war planning scenarios. But of course, brilliant neckbeard blogger David Axe could deduce what the entire PLA establishment could not - that the USN possesses a ton of advanced submarines. How remarkable. David Axe, with no military experience outside of Call of Duty, is smarter than the entire Chinese military establishment. He knows about deadly US submarines but Chinese generals and admirals did not know about US submarines until today, when David Axe foolishly mentioned them!

And really? David Axe is mentioning demographic decline as a factor now? China will still be a nation of 1 billion in 2030. If we're mentioning demographics, let's talk about how the racial makeup of the US is changing forever causing increased racial incidents like the ones we see in Ferguson. Maybe in 2030, the United States will be overwhelmed by Mexicans, as all demographic studies are indicating, and the US Navy will trade in their subs for more pro-Hispanic social programs. This may actually be a good thing because as far as I know, China doesn't have a problem with the country of the United States of Amer-mexico.

Cue circlejerk and mental masturbation by self-styled military experts, living vicariously through American power (because their own countries are garbage), to a moral victory in a battle of words that no Chinese strategist, planner, military officer actually knew they were fighting.

Btw, I'm completely disregarding the link to the random Indian "think"tank claiming to know more about what China thinks than Chinese people do.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

It' s a double think. I think that they think they can …

 

[Oldman1]

Our conquest already succeeded, just like UK succeeded. We have been an empire for thousands of years. Now we are more powerful than ever in history!!!



We spanked Philippines when we grabbed Scarborough Shoal from them. USA did nothing to protect their ally. We spanked Japan when we do incursions into their so-called territorial sea and airspace. USA talked big but did nothing. We spanked Vietnam when we drilled for oil in their EEZ and they could do nothing about it after boasting about all their military hardware purchased from Russia. We spanked India just last week when Modi overplayed his hand badly triggering a small skirmish in Demchok around the irrigation canal. We even spank US Navy with our attack on USS Cowpens and their P-8 Poseidens.

Nothing can stop our rise. Our excellent civilization is too great for others on this planet to observe except in total awe

Keep dreaming. Establishing EEZ is not the same as taking the Senkaku Islands which by the way is still in Japanese hands. And you didn't do anything except park your ship to try to force an American warship to stop, but instead it just went around. And doing barrel rolls is not the same as shooting down a P8. You could say we spank China by keep on sending American aircraft and ships in your EEZ many times. You couldn't do anything except do more barrel rolls or try to park in front of a warship.

 

[Nike]

Our 3000 nuclear warheads will give a quick end to our unfriendly neighbors. Our weaponized eloba will finish them off quite cleanly.

don't you think other countries have the same or even much capable weapons system to retaliate your attack?

 

[Established_1965]

Our 3000 nuclear warheads will give a quick end to our unfriendly neighbors. Our weaponized eloba will finish them off quite cleanly.

then Chinese civilisation will be the most immature civilisation in human history. 3000 Nuclear blast will result in Nuclear ice age and I'm pretty much sure, China will be destroyed altogether but slowly and terribly.

 

[TheMatador]

Keep dreaming. Establishing EEZ is not the same as taking the Senkaku Islands which by the way is still in Japanese hands. And you didn't do anything except park your ship to try to force an American warship to stop, but instead it just went around. And doing barrel rolls is not the same as shooting down a P8. You could say we spank China by keep on sending American aircraft and ships in your EEZ many times. You couldn't do anything except do more barrel rolls or try to park in front of a warship.

What happened to the American superpower that can't stop Chinese ships from entering Diaoyu Island territorial waters and stop Chinese aircraft from entering Diaoyu Island airspace?

Your USS Cowpens literally retreated in the face of Type 071 LPD

Your P-8 won't be coming around China any time soon. We taught you a lesson. Now you are thinking about sending fighter escorts but Chinese government already replied fighter escorts will be met with overwhelming interceptor forces.

Even worse for USA, Ukraine conflict is going to be a drain on USA resource, ISIS / Syria / Iran military action will be a drain on USA resources, in South Asia even India's Modi rejected USA attempts to turn India into cannon fodder. All the cards are in China's hands!

The opportunity calls. We will recover our imperial territories by around 2020 and become the undisputed hegemon of Asia!

don't you think other countries have the same or even much capable weapons system to retaliate your attack?

No. Our nukes can wipe out Indonesians in the big cities like you, follow up with weaponized eloba to finish off countryside and then we colonize with Chinese Maybe you can be a slave of Han. You will enjoy it!

 

[Nike]

What happened to the American superpower that can't stop Chinese ships from entering Diaoyu Island territorial waters and stop Chinese aircraft from entering Diaoyu Island airspace?

Your USS Cowpens literally retreated in the face of Type 071 LPD

Your P-8 won't be coming around China any time soon. We taught you a lesson. Now you are thinking about sending fighter escorts but Chinese government already replied fighter escorts will be met with overwhelming interceptor forces.

Even worse for USA, Ukraine conflict is going to be a drain on USA resource, ISIS / Syria / Iran military action will be a drain on USA resources, in South Asia even India's Modi rejected USA attempts to turn India into cannon fodder. All the cards are in China's hands!

The opportunity calls. We will recover our imperial territories by around 2020 and become the undisputed hegemon of Asia!

No. Our nukes can wipe out Indonesians in the big cities like you, follow up with weaponized eloba to finish off countryside and then we colonize with Chinese Maybe you can be a slave of Han. You will enjoy it!

Quite amusing, talking about nuke this and that, just a kiddo talking rubbish here without any background in real politics nor military

 

[TheMatador]

Quite amusing, talking about nuke this and that, just a kiddo talking rubbish here without any background in real politics nor military

Good. Stay amused. You will need the sense of humor as Han Chinese enslave you evil neighbors.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Here is one question for you guys; can the US stop China's rise? Yes or no.

Ultimately I dont think it can. US can contain China's rise to a degree, but the US is going to have to rely on regional players to do that (India, Japan, Vietnam etc)
Probably Japan and India are going to be the main allies of the US to do this.