China Taiwan Province (ROC): News, Discussions & Images

[Aepsilons]

I think not. It is solvable by only restoring China's sovereignty. It is even not Ma to decide. Besides, he says nothing about sovereignty claims, but, encourages dialogue and mutual development, which is actually the Mainland's argument for long.

Taiwan is in no position and has no intention to sacrifice the territorial claims.

Freezing the issue actually China's policy in the ECS before certain Japanese disturbed the status quo.

I think the only way both sides can diffuse the situation is to agree to joint development. As for returning the Senkaku Shoto, that cannot be permitted as it is occupied territory and will remain so indefinitely.

 

[TaiShang]

I think the only way both sides can diffuse the situation is to agree to joint development. As for returning the Senkaku Shoto, that cannot be permitted as it is occupied territory and will remain so indefinitely.

China does not recognize Japan's sovereignty and that has been officially stated.

So, dispute will remain and I would not oppose joint development. But, to the degree Japan interferes in SCS (beyond its legitimate SLOC concerns which China is the last one to threaten it) dispute between related parties, China will put some pressure in the ECS front/

 

[Aepsilons]

China does not recognize Japan's sovereignty and that has been officially stated.

So, dispute will remain and I would not oppose joint development. But, to the degree Japan interferes in SCS (beyond its legitimate SLOC concerns which China is the last one to threaten it) dispute between related parties, China will put some pressure in the ECS front/

Diplomatically speaking, it makes sense why China is putting pressure in the ECS due to recent Japanese-Filipino developments in the realm of defense articulation and economic development. However, in my opinion, I feel that China should not use bilateral relations as a catalyst for estranging of ties with Japan, let alone, be so sensitive to interpret recent relations with the Filipinos as contemptuous.

 

[TaiShang]

Diplomatically speaking, it makes sense why China is putting pressure in the ECS due to recent Japanese-Filipino developments in the realm of defense articulation and economic development. However, in my opinion, I feel that China should not use bilateral relations as a catalyst for estranging of ties with Japan, let alone, be so sensitive to interpret recent relations with the Filipinos as contemptuous.

I do not see China estranging ties with Japan. You know, EEZ in ECS predates the recent island development program China is engaged with in SCS.

As for using bilateral relations, as a next step, China might decide to expand frills with Russia nearer to Japanese claimed islands, but, I think that would be too dramatic escalation at the moment. Keeping it still a bilateral issue is probably more manageable.

 

[Aepsilons]

I do not see China estranging ties with Japan. You know, EEZ in ECS predates the recent island development program China is engaged with in SCS.

As for using bilateral relations, as a next step, China might decide to expand frills with Russia nearer to Japanese claimed islands, but, I think that would be too dramatic escalation at the moment. Keeping it still a bilateral issue is probably more manageable.

I hear your point. But hear mine as well. The recent Russo-Chinese naval exercise in the Sea of Japan --- is not being met with harsh Japanese protest, politics in Japan is silent on that. You see the difference? I wish our Chinese friends would be reciprocal in Japan's engagements with the Philippines.

In my view, this is just my view, China's recent responses with Japan has been extra critial, and too reprimanding. Its as if the gf is angry at the bf for talking to friends, lol.

 

[jkroo]

Ma was born in the same place where I live. I know the traditional character or blood in his body. This issue is his bottom line though he can't do more thing in current situation.

Janapese like to revise their textbooks to teach the youth wrong things. Sigh.

 

[TaiShang]

I hear your point. But hear mine as well. The recent Russo-Chinese naval exercise in the Sea of Japan --- is not being met with harsh Japanese protest, politics in Japan is silent on that. You see the difference? I wish our Chinese friends would be reciprocal in Japan's engagements with the Philippines.

In my view, this is just my view, China's recent responses with Japan has been extra critial, and too reprimanding. Its as if the gf is angry at the bf for talking to friends, lol.

Looks like both sides are apprehensive of each other's moves:

Why Japan's China rhetoric in defense white paper fallacious?
2015-07-22 12:53:26

BEIJING, July 22 (Xinhua) -- The Japanese cabinet on Tuesday approved the country's defense white paper for 2015, which gave a significant portion to whipping up the hysteria of "China threat".

In an apparent bid to justify Japan's new security bills, the document ignores facts, makes irresponsible remarks on China's normal military growth and maritime activities, deliberately plays up "China threat", and stirs up tensions in the region.

The following are some of fallacies in the document that could be easily spotted by anyone who is familiar with Asia's regional affairs:

Fallacy No. 1: China's military development poses a severe threat to Japan.

Truth: China adheres to peaceful development and its national defense is defensive in nature, and its strategic intentions are transparent. The normal development of China's military capabilities poses no threat to any other country.

The Japanese side must stop such foul practices of misleading the Japanese people, or creating obstacles for the improvement of China-Japan ties.

Fallacy No. 2: China's maritime activities have harmed regional stability.

Truth: China always carries out normal maritime activities in accordance with international laws and relevant domestic laws, and China's oil and gas exploration in undisputed waters of the East China Sea under China's jurisdiction is "justified, reasonable and legitimate," as said by Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang.

China's construction on some garrisoned Nansha islands and reefs is fully within China's sovereignty and does not affect or target any other country.

Meanwhile, Japan, which is not a claimant of the South China Sea, has stoked tension by interfering in the matter. Such acts run counter to regional peace and stability, and have severely undermined the political and security mutual trust between China and Japan.

Fallacy No. 3: China's patrol missions around the Diaoyu Islands are illegal.

Truth: The Diaoyu Islands have been China's inherent territory since ancient times, and China's patrolling and law enforcement activities in Chinese territorial waters off the Diaoyu Islands are China's inherent right.

China will continue to take necessary measures and stay firm in safeguarding territorial sovereignty. Meanwhile, China stands for the proper settlement of this issue through dialogue and consultation.

 

[bobsm]

Not really surprise by this move. They've done many revisions in the past.

Japanese Middle-School Textbook Changes Irk China, South Korea - WSJ

 

[xesy]

Looks like both sides are apprehensive of each other's moves:

Why Japan's China rhetoric in defense white paper fallacious?
2015-07-22 12:53:26

BEIJING, July 22 (Xinhua) -- The Japanese cabinet on Tuesday approved the country's defense white paper for 2015, which gave a significant portion to whipping up the hysteria of "China threat".

In an apparent bid to justify Japan's new security bills, the document ignores facts, makes irresponsible remarks on China's normal military growth and maritime activities, deliberately plays up "China threat", and stirs up tensions in the region.

The following are some of fallacies in the document that could be easily spotted by anyone who is familiar with Asia's regional affairs:

Fallacy No. 1: China's military development poses a severe threat to Japan.

Truth: China adheres to peaceful development and its national defense is defensive in nature, and its strategic intentions are transparent. The normal development of China's military capabilities poses no threat to any other country.

The Japanese side must stop such foul practices of misleading the Japanese people, or creating obstacles for the improvement of China-Japan ties.

Fallacy No. 2: China's maritime activities have harmed regional stability.

Truth: China always carries out normal maritime activities in accordance with international laws and relevant domestic laws, and China's oil and gas exploration in undisputed waters of the East China Sea under China's jurisdiction is "justified, reasonable and legitimate," as said by Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang.

China's construction on some garrisoned Nansha islands and reefs is fully within China's sovereignty and does not affect or target any other country.

Meanwhile, Japan, which is not a claimant of the South China Sea, has stoked tension by interfering in the matter. Such acts run counter to regional peace and stability, and have severely undermined the political and security mutual trust between China and Japan.

Fallacy No. 3: China's patrol missions around the Diaoyu Islands are illegal.

Truth: The Diaoyu Islands have been China's inherent territory since ancient times, and China's patrolling and law enforcement activities in Chinese territorial waters off the Diaoyu Islands are China's inherent right.

China will continue to take necessary measures and stay firm in safeguarding territorial sovereignty. Meanwhile, China stands for the proper settlement of this issue through dialogue and consultation.

I will try to be unbiased, but here are some of my opinion on your explainations about China's white paper:

Fallacy No. 1: China's military development poses a severe threat to Japan.

Truth: China adheres to peaceful development and its national defense is defensive in nature, and its strategic intentions are transparent. The normal development of China's military capabilities poses no threat to any other country.

The Japanese side must stop such foul practices of misleading the Japanese people, or creating obstacles for the improvement of China-Japan ties.

As I currently understand, China is increasing its asernal, focusing on long range offensive weapons like aircraft cariers, heavy bombers, long range missles, ICBM and super-sonic weapons. There is a subtle but gradual change in China's military policy. Maybe China main strategy is still anti-access, area-denial, but the capability of what China's army CAN do alone put countries near it to an alarming state is unavoidable. Not to mention because of new capabilities, China has taken up more aggresive aproaches regarding territories disputes comparing to the past.

Fallacy No. 2: China's maritime activities have harmed regional stability.

Truth: China always carries out normal maritime activities in accordance with international laws and relevant domestic laws, and China's oil and gas exploration in undisputed waters of the East China Sea under China's jurisdiction is "justified, reasonable and legitimate," as said by Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang.

China's construction on some garrisoned Nansha islands and reefs is fully within China's sovereignty and does not affect or target any other country.

Meanwhile, Japan, which is not a claimant of the South China Sea, has stoked tension by interfering in the matter. Such acts run counter to regional peace and stability, and have severely undermined the political and security mutual trust between China and Japan.

I believe both Japan and the US approach the matter of SCS in the name of "Freedom of Navigation". Also by changing the natural state of those islands, China effectively change the value of those islands to parties who claimed sovereinity upon those islands. The regional peace and stability has already been upset, with or without Japan interference, by China.

Fallacy No. 3: China's patrol missions around the Diaoyu Islands are illegal.

Truth: The Diaoyu Islands have been China's inherent territory since ancient times, and China's patrolling and law enforcement activities in Chinese territorial waters off the Diaoyu Islands are China's inherent right.

Same claim from Japan side. So who should I or anyone who has little historical knowledge about the island believe?

 

[Sanchez]

Japan unconditionally surrendered in 1945 on terms of Potsdam Decalaration, in which it says:
that the "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku, and such minor islands as we determine," as had been announced in the Cairo Declaration in 1943.

Even the present day "Okinawa county" (Ryukyu islands) is not Japanese sovereignty. In 1970s US military governement ilegally transfered the administration of Ryukiu islands to Japan. AS WE DETERMINE should not have been as the US determines.

Diaoyu islands had been occupied at the times that Japan took Taiwan. In all terms Diaoyu islands are Chinese sovereignty.

 

[Keel]

Good move Taiwan
Should do more and harder on the Japanese

Janapese like to revise their textbooks to teach the youth wrong things. Sigh.

the Japanese do not seem to realise they are doped by their government early on but I strongly think they choose to believe what they were taught in defiance of history and facts

Look at the Japanese member (s) here ... and just recently the farce on the "Mishubishi Apology"

Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

 

[Jlaw]

Ma was born in the same place where I live. I know the traditional character or blood in his body. This issue is his bottom line though he can't do more thing in current situation.

Janapese like to revise their textbooks to teach the youth wrong things. Sigh.

Radiation sickness. US was justified dropping the Fatman in Japan. the only bad thing was it missed the real target ---Tokyo

 

[TaiShang]

As I currently understand, China is increasing its asernal, focusing on long range offensive weapons like aircraft cariers, heavy bombers, long range missles, ICBM and super-sonic weapons. There is a subtle but gradual change in China's military policy. Maybe China main strategy is still anti-access, area-denial, but the capability of what China's army CAN do alone put countries near it to an alarming state is unavoidable. Not to mention because of new capabilities, China has taken up more aggresive aproaches regarding territories disputes comparing to the past.

That's true. China's military is developing at a certain pace. But, why should it not be? As long as their capacities allow, every country seeks to build capability. China is not a land-power, it is both land and maritime power. That's the only way to survive and ensure security in today's world. What you need to look at is China's foreign policy conceptualization and actual behavior. Even when bombs dropped from the Myanmar side, we did not behave hastily and sought cheap punishment tricks. In SCS and ECS, China is a late comer in everything -- from EEZ to island development. Even Taiwan had a larger military presence in SCS than the Mainland as near as three years ago.

I believe both Japan and the US approach the matter of SCS in the name of "Freedom of Navigation". Also by changing the natural state of those islands, China effectively change the value of those islands to parties who claimed sovereinity upon those islands. The regional peace and stability has already been upset, with or without Japan interference, by China.

China guarantees freedom of navigation because it is a larger trading nation than both Japan and the US. It has more at stake and in no way China will let anybody disturb freedom of navigation. Freedom of military surveillance and spying is of course another thing. We will push forward incrementally.

China was not the first country to change the natural state of the islands. And those developments are not purely military, but also scientific, disaster relief and economic oriented.

Same claim from Japan side. So who should I or anyone who has little historical knowledge about the island believe?

Read both Cairo and Postdam declarations.

Taiwan officially recognizes Diaoyutai as an inherent territory of China. That's the official policy. You need to challenge it.

Good move Taiwan
Should do more and harder on the Japanese





the Japanese do not seem to realise they are doped by their government early on but I strongly think they choose to believe what they were taught in defiance of history and facts

Look at the Japanese member (s) here ... and just recently the farce on the "Mishubishi Apology"

Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

Taiwan has never (and will never) renounced from the claim over the island. Those are inherent territories of Chin and it is stated in every single defence paper. That's the official policy. On this, and in SCS, we are one and united with the Mainland. No wonder, Mainland has been assisting Taiwan in its build up efforts in Taiping Islan

 

[xesy]

That's true. China's military is developing at a certain pace. But, why should it not be? As long as their capacities allow, every country seeks to build capability. China is not a land-power, it is both land and maritime power. That's the only way to survive and ensure security in today's world. What you need to look at is China's foreign policy conceptualization and actual behavior. Even when bombs dropped from the Myanmar side, we did not behave hastily and sought cheap punishment tricks. In SCS and ECS, China is a late comer in everything -- from EEZ to island development. Even Taiwan had a larger military presence in SCS than the Mainland as near as three years ago.

That's not enough to deny the fact China poses a serious threat to its neighbors. Also, Myanmar is warming up with China, while Japan has already taken ready postition against an aggresive China. We simply cannot compare the two countries.

China guarantees freedom of navigation because it is a larger trading nation than both Japan and the US. It has more at stake and in no way China will let anybody disturb freedom of navigation. Freedom of military surveillance and spying is of course another thing. We will push forward incrementally.

China was not the first country to change the natural state of the islands. And those developments are not purely military, but also scientific, disaster relief and economic oriented.

There are plenty reasons for Japan and US nave to present in SCS, especially when China already stationed quite a number of personels and hardwares here. I believe the most popular reason is "to protect ships against pirates, and to perform search and resuces missions". China simply cannot deny such reason.

Taiwan officially recognizes Diaoyutai as an inherent territory of China. That's the official policy. You need to challenge it.

I see no difference here, same as mainland China claims on SCS. If things cannot be settled between involved parties, we can't say it with 100% certainty. And some sides will seek outside parties to judge the situation.

 

[TaiShang]

That's not enough to deny the fact China poses a serious threat to its neighbors.

That's given. Anything poses a thread to anyone. That's true for persons as well as nations. It is still a two-way street. The person that you deeply distrust might hold a similar feeling toward you. Most of China's neighbors, in fact, feel no threat. Because, if they feel real threat, they will stop talking, doing business etc. Like how it happened with Japan and the allied powers. On the contrary, what we see today is nations lining up to bandwagon on China-led institutions. Who really pushed Indians to join the SCO, which is truly, purely a China-led institution? You see, everything is relative.

Also, Myanmar is warming up with China, while Japan has already taken ready postition against an aggresive China. We simply cannot compare the two countries.

Japan has been taking a position for a long time. But, at the same time, negotiating with China for an FTA. In this region, everybody has some beef with everybody. The distrust between Japan and Korea is probably much larger than China and Japan. And Korea has good relations with China.

There are plenty reasons for Japan and US nave to present in SCS, especially when China already stationed quite a number of personels and hardwares here. I believe the most popular reason is "to protect ships against pirates, and to perform search and resuces missions". China simply cannot deny such reason.

Alright then. Too many countries concerned about piracy and disaster relief. Considering all these intentions are clean and pure, there should be no reason why China would not be allowed to develop and contribute.

I see no difference here, same as mainland China claims on SCS. If things cannot be settled between involved parties, we can't say it with 100% certainty. And some sides will seek outside parties to judge the situation.

That's correct. The point is, everybody has some beef and some disagreement with each other. Due to its scale, China's move might have scared the small countries a bit. That's understandable. But they must be rest assured of China's good intentions. China will never Japanize/colonize the region.