China Taiwan Province (ROC): News, Discussions & Images

[Raphael]

It is the subdivisions of the states that are not sovereign, not the states.

Well it goes without saying that counties and cities, etc. are not sovereign. But the crux of the matter here is that US states are also not sovereign:

Sovereign state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A sovereign state is a nonphysical juridical entity of the international legal system that is represented by one centralised government that has supreme independent authority over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states.[1] It is also normally understood that a state is neither dependent on nor subject to any other power or state.

This definition of sovereignty comes from the Montevideo Convention, which is like the Geneva Convention of statehood. US states certainly can't enter into foreign relations with other sovereign states, and they also dependent and subject to the supreme authority of the US federal government. The American civil war proved that.

Your argument is premised entirely on an unfortunate choice of words from an author who used the term "shares", rather than relinquishes, yields, etc. Can you find any legal documents that support your extraordinary notion that US states are sovereign? State constitutions perhaps?

 

[Red Spinifex]

Well it goes without saying that counties and cities, etc. are not sovereign. But the crux of the matter here is that US states are also not sovereign:

Sovereign state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



This definition of sovereignty comes from the Montevideo Convention, which is like the Geneva Convention of statehood. US states certainly can't enter into foreign relations with other sovereign states, and they also dependent and subject to the supreme authority of the US federal government. The American civil war proved that.

Your argument is premised entirely on an unfortunate choice of words from an author who used the term "shares", rather than relinquishes, yields, etc. Can you find any legal documents that support your extraordinary notion that US states are sovereign? State constitutions perhaps?

I said the states surrender some of their sovereignty to the federal government. Reread my post.

 

[Raphael]

I said the states surrender some of their sovereignty to the federal government. Reread my post.

Actually, this is what you said, and this is what I (and most probably all the people who thanked my post) take issue with:

No, California is a sovereign state under the U.S. Constitution. All states of the Union are sovereign states with rights that cannot be violated by the U.S. Federal government. The Federal government cannot bully California the way the CCP tries to bully Taiwan. You are an ignorant fool.

If now you feel embarrassed for making a statement like that, you're very welcome to withdraw it

 

[AgentOrange]

That's drivel. The PRC goes out its way to try and humiliate and bully Taiwan at every opportunity. That's one of the reasons why the Taiwanese don't want to be under the rule of the CCP or part of the PRC. As I've said before, the PRC should stop blathering about taking over Taiwan and do it if they can. They have signally failed to take Taiwan in 66 years.

Why would the PRC actively try to take Taiwan when the power balance grows (disproportionately) more and more in China's favor with each passing day? Why commit to a frontal assault when China's economic and diplomatic siege of Taiwan is working so well? Even now, as evidenced by the article TaiShang posted, Taiwan's biggest benefactor wants Taiwan to STFU and stop rocking the boat.

But China should immediately throw away all it has gained to attack right now because that would demonstrate some sort of machismo in your mind? As if international relations is analogous to petty grade school power dynamics. Your reasoning doesn't make any sense.

 

[xunzi]

I said the states surrender some of their sovereignty to the federal government. Reread my post.

You just got owned. LOL

Taiwan will always remain an integral part of the motherland. We set the red line pretty clearly. It is one of our "core interest" that we set out with our American friend.

 

[Genesis]

Actually, this is what you said, and this is what I (and most probably all the people who thanked my post) take issue with:



If now you feel embarrassed for making a statement like that, you're very welcome to withdraw it

I don't take issue with anything, I just can't believe we are arguing whether California is a sovereign state, up next, is Mao really Chinese, or just Stalin with a shaved face?

 

[Cossack25A1]

Wasn't the USA originally a union of states, something similar to the United Nations but with a more centralized government in the form of the Federal Government?

I wonder, what would had happened had Taiwan become an American state during the time China is still weak militarily (as compared today)

 

[AgentOrange]

Wasn't the USA originally a union of states, something similar to the United Nations but with a more centralized government in the form of the Federal Government?

I wonder, what would had happened had Taiwan become an American state during the time China is still weak militarily (as compared today)

Taiwan was still a 3rd world country at that time. Also, Taiwan still claimed to be the true government of China at the time and had plans for re-taking the mainland. Becoming a US state wasn't even countenanced.

 

[IPen]

The article is one of the sternest I have read recently and makes direct reference to the fact that whatever recognition Taiwan may have today, it is not because they have any meaningful political relevance today, but because Beijing still desires to solve the Taiwan problem peacefully, rather than chocking its few remaining breathing tubes.

R u a Taiwanese?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

R u a Taiwanese?

He is a red Taiwanese.

red Taiwanese = true Chinese patriots

 

[Keel]

May be the move is just to test the water of how PRC and USA will react to this after a string of events that has recently happened in Taiwan from the Sun Flower Movement, the Kaohsiung blasts, the food scandals, the oppositions of the Cross-Strait Trade Agreement, the Taipei Mayoral election and the release of Chen Shui-bian .. which are going all in favour of a DPP resurgence.

 

[Nihil]

The s


What a lot of crap! Look it up! Sovereignty CAN be shared in a federation or a confederation.

Sovereign comes from Old French word souverain which means ultimate. A sovereign state has to have an internationally accepted declaration of statehood, something California does not have.
And the Supremacy Clause in the US directly states that federal laws may overrule state laws. Examples are for example anti-miscegenation laws that remained in state constitutions till the mid 1990s, but were void after Loving v. Virginia.

 

[William Hung]

The article is one of the sternest I have read recently and makes direct reference to the fact that whatever recognition Taiwan may have today, it is not because they have any meaningful political relevance today, but because Beijing still desires to solve the Taiwan problem peacefully, rather than chocking its few remaining breathing tubes.

@TaiShang, please remember to always provide the link to the original source and credit the author.

Here, I've linked the OP to the original article for you. It's from the Global Times, the China state-run news outlet:

Taiwan’s provocation embarrasses itself - Global Times

Although I can't find the name of the author since it was posted in the Opinion-Editorial section.

 

[TaiShang]

Chen parole challenges Taiwan governance

Former Taiwan leader Chen Shui-bian was released from prison on Monday on one-month medical parole. But the supporters that gathered outside to welcome him seem to suggest they took the release as an end to Chen's prison time after six years and 40 days. People would barely feel surprised if Chen's parole never ends.

This poses a challenge to Taiwan's rule of law. While Chen had long hoped to leave prison but failed, the situation changed after his Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) won the elections late last year. The voices calling for his release heightened and formed into tremendous pressure. Then Taiwan's law bowed to politics.

Ma Ying-jeou remains the leader of Taiwan, but he has lost real authority and the DPP acts as if it is already on the path to regaining power. The independence camp seems to be anxious to begin a new chapter in Taiwan's political landscape.

Chen's release does carry a certain significance, which is however bigger to Taiwan itself than its relations with the Chinese mainland.

When in office, Chen's radical advocacy for Taiwan's independence was squeezed by the mainland and led to the DPP's heavy defeat in the following elections. As Taiwan has changed dramatically, he is unable to regain support for his stance.

The mainland has to be politically prepared and meanwhile strategically confident to handle possible changes in the cross-Straits relationship.

We have to stay calm if many efforts from both sides, such as advancing the trade and service pact, slow down or even grind to a halt. We are able to withstand whatever changes happen to cross-Straits relations, including a reverse.

Cross-Straits cooperation is mutually beneficial but means much more to Taiwan than the mainland, given the different economic sizes. When the whole of Asia and even the world are eying the huge mainland market with an increasing number of free trade agreements signed, Taiwan is free to go if it wants to stay away from the mainland. But if Taiwan's independence forces regain momentum, don't forget the anti-secession law. The mainland is more powerful and determined in implementing the law than when Chen was in office.

Cross-Straits relations have much improved under the Kuomintang's leadership after they were severely strained when Chen led Taiwan. But the relationship is yet to be stabilized. It may take further setbacks to make any major consensus between the two sides clear and firm.

The mainland should be at ease to strive for the best but prepare for the worst. The effects of the mainland's favorable policies to appease Taiwan's impulse for independence will be overtaken by the mainland's growing strength. In this sense, pursuing our own development will facilitate our efforts to tackle relations with Taiwan.

In other words, it may not be undesirable if the failure of the service trade agreement widens the strength gap across the Straits. We have nothing to be concerned about.

 

[William Hung]

Taiwan working to reduce trade reliance on China: President Ma | Economics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

Taiwan working to reduce trade reliance on China: President Ma

(By Kelven Huang and Elaine Hou)

Taipei, Jan. 9 (CNA) President Ma Ying-jeou said Friday that Taiwan has been diversifying its exports in an effort to lessen its reliance on the China market, although close trade relations across the Taiwan Strait are unavoidable.

Over the past year, the ratio of Taiwan's exports to China has dropped to 39 percent as the government has been seeking markets wider afield, Ma told the latest recipients of the annual National Distinguished Accomplishment Award and the National Manager Excellence Award.

While receiving the awardees at the Presidential Office, Ma said that in 2000, China accounted for 24 percent of Taiwan's total exports and the ratio increased to 40 percent in 2008 when he took office as president.

Since then, however, Taiwan has increased its exports to Japan and the United States, and to countries in Europe and Southeast Asia, Ma said.

The government does not want to put all its eggs in one basket, but at the same time, it cannot avoid putting any eggs in the biggest basket, he said.

China is the biggest trading partner of 17 of its 23 neighboring countries, including Taiwan, according to Ma.

A close trade relationship between Taiwan and China is unavoidable, in light of their geographic proximity, but what Taiwan can do is try to reduce trade dependence on China, he said.

He said Taiwan must transform from an efficiency-driven economy into an innovation-driven one and lower its barriers to foreign trade so that its economy can improve.

Many countries are willing to conduct business with Taiwan but would hesitate to sign a bilateral free trade agreement because Taiwan does not have official diplomatic relations with its major trading partners, Ma said.

The government, nonetheless, has been making efforts to address these issues so that Taiwan can catch up with its main competitor -- South Korea, he said.

China and South Korea are likely to sign a free trade agreement in the first half of this year, which inevitably would affect Taiwan's exports, Ma said, noting that about 70 percent of Taiwan's exports overlap with South Korea's.

Taiwan must be prepared to work harder and push for greater trade liberalization, he stressed.

After the recent loss at the local election, it looks like Ma is beginning to fear the growing pro-independent camp and slowly accommodating them.