China submarines outnumber U.S. fleet: U.S. admiral

[Genesis]

I was not talking about secrets, some started trolling so did I

... I was talking about it will be wrong to say that US is not doing any research for development of weapons. As research is backbone for strong military.

China now more than ever is increasing its influence, with that comes a new set of responsibilities. that means China now and in the future will have new requirements for the military.

Chinese weapons are never exactly the same as "copied" designs. Reason is we have different requirements, but with the introduction of stealth fighters, carriers, and others it seems our requirements are beginning to align with that of the US.


the reason I bring it up is nothing is from no where, the US needed a plane to fly into enemy territory without being detected, or out ran enemy missiles and fighters, so came B-2, F-117 and blackbird.

Weapons are made out of need, so while impossible to guess the exact design and capability of individual weapons, it's not impossible to guess where a nation's capabilities are going and based on its infrastructure and resources, how far those can be taken.

Individual capabilities like stealth cannot be predicted, but needing a plane to go undetected could.


Does the US have black projects? Of course, so does China, Russia, etc. It's just a matter of need, resources, and infrastructure. So maybe we cannot guess what the US has exactly, but based on China's own needs, it's not impossible to figure out what direction it would take.

 

[Brainsucker]

You don't even see that at Science fiction movies let along on real life. The only time I saw US is willing to cooperate with China is on 2012 movie where America is about to submerge into the ocean, so they're willing to build the giant humanitarian ship in Tibet to save their own A$$.

We Chinese are better off cooperate with any aliens of the galaxy than Americans, they're not worthed.

Lol. Mr. Spock is better than Obama then

 

[j20dragon]

May I ask, do you know what is power projection?

Iraq and Kuwait share a border, there are no power projection involve as Kuwait backyard is also Iraq's back yard lol.

Like If China defeated Vietnam or Afghanistan, that too does not count as power projection, as there are actual land border with all these countries....



lol HGV is not power projection, if so, then any sort of ballistic missile can also claim as a weapon of power proojection, even scud, cause when a weapon have a range, theoritically they can reach an enemy overseas.

What I was talking about is an Sea/Land power projection. Where you can actually and literally patrol your enemy coast in time of war.

UK did not need US help during Falkland campaign, US stayed neutral during the conflict, but since the UK jave military base in the ascension island, midway between North Atlantic and South Atlantic, they can resupply their ship and support a foreign war. Hence projecting power that way.

Lets say China want to fight a war with Argentina alone, How the Chinese ship made the Cross Pacific and Cross Atlantic journey when US refuse to let the Chinese to stage a war against Argentina? There were no base belong to China Mid Pacific or Mid Atlantic and you know for sure Chinese ship cannot make a cross ocean journey without resupply.

Don't mistake us having non-interference policy with lack of power projection. You do realize it is a temporary policy right? When we feel our interest are threaten, you will see power projection abroad. The world should definitely value our non-interference policy. Once they disrespect our policy, then you will see a monster coming at you, just like the US going after their interest. I'm not saying we will wage war but we will find ways to justify it, like the US making the false WMD on Iraq. For the time being, just enjoy our non-interference and cherish it.

 

[jhungary]

Don't mistake us having non-interference policy with lack of power projection. You do realize it is a temporary policy right? When we feel our interest are threaten, you will see power projection abroad. The world should definitely value our non-interference policy. Once they disrespect our policy, then you will see a monster coming at you, just like the US going after their interest. I'm not saying we will wage war but we will find ways to justify it, like the US making the false WMD on Iraq. For the time being, just enjoy our non-interference and cherish it.

Its not what I said...I did not say China lacking the will to project power, but China is lacking the mean to project power.

Same example, how would you suppose Chinese Navy to fight a war in South Atlantic coast against the argentina? China do not have bases between China to Argentina and unless Chinese ge5 US approval to use Hawaii or Alaska (Which would also need Russian approval) There are no mean for Chinese navy to sail to Argentina and support an away war there.

You do know for any transpacific journey to be make you need to enter a port at least twice right? Thats about 30 days of sailing....

As of this moment, Chinese power projection can only brought to SCS and Eastern part of Indian Ocean, not Asia-Pacific

 

[j20dragon]

Its not what I said...I did not say China lacking the will to project power, but China is lacking the mean to project power.

Same example, how would you suppose Chinese Navy to fight a war in South Atlantic coast against the argentina? China do not have bases between China to Argentina and unless Chinese ge5 US approval to use Hawaii or Alaska (Which would also need Russian approval) There are no mean for Chinese navy to sail to Argentina and support an away war there.

You do know for any transpacific journey to be make you need to enter a port at least twice right? Thats about 30 days of sailing....

As of this moment, Chinese power projection can only brought to SCS and Eastern part of Indian Ocean, not Asia-Pacific

We have very little reason to project power because we see the current framework is favoring our overseas interest. Once we felt our interests are threaten and the current framework no longer support our goal, then you will see PLA popping up oversea. In fact, we are slowly doing this, especially in Indian Sea. Soon Africa and Latin America will follow. We are currently negotiating and seeking port in those area to supply for ships. As far as fighting Argentina, again why would we fight them? But for fun, let hypothetically assume the Falkland is our territory, do you think we would not do something about it to protect it age ago? We would have bases in Cuba, Venezuela. We would even be in either US/Russia camp just so we can trespass and borrow their base. Right now, the only area that is threaten our interest is the Indian sea and you already see our navy is popping up. Just enjoy the last few years of humbleness. Soon the question of China's lack of power projection will cease to be the talk of the media.

 

[jhungary]

We have very little reason to project power because we see the current framework is favoring our overseas interest. Once we felt our interests are threaten and the current framework no longer support our goal, then you will see PLA popping up oversea. In fact, we are slowly doing this, especially in Indian Sea. Soon Africa and Latin America will follow. We are currently negotiating and seeking port in those area to supply for ships. As far as fighting Argentina, again why would we fight them? But for fun, let hypothetically assume the Falkland is our territory, do you think we would not do something about it to protect it age ago? We would have bases in Cuba, Venezuela. We would even be in either US/Russia camp just so we can trespass and borrow their base. Right now, the only area that is threaten our interest is the Indian sea and you already see our navy is popping up. Just enjoy the last few years of humbleness. Soon the question of China's lack of power projection will cease to be the talk of the media.

lol, you are over simplifying the matters...

1.) What you're thinking is "In the Future", nobody knows what will happens in the future, You can say in the future China can project power in Indian Ocean, Africa or Latin America, I can say tomorrow Putin can be ousted and US and Russia joint together and take over the world. LOL, nobody knows what gonna happen in the future, so we can only talk about in the present.

2.) building a base in a foreign country does not mean you own it, thus, it is not a power projection move.

Building a Port in a foreign country does NOT give you a base to operate in War Time, as that base would not be Chinese base, but will remain whatever country's the Chinese build on. Just because Chinese Built it, that does not mean that port belong to China

Say for example, if China goes into a war with India, even if Chinese are building a port in Sri Lanker, that base in Sri Lanker is not a Chinese Base and Chinese can use it only when you either occupied Sri Lanker or You manage to get Sri Lanker to fight a war with India with you,

In term of war, if a country stayed neutral, any belligerent party cannot stay in neutral port or they will be able to declare hostile by the other warring party. A foreign base may or may not be able to use in a future conflict, hence is not a clear cut power projection factors.

Also, an foreign/allies base would only serve as increase war fighting capability, but not power projection.

 

[Echo_419]

China is building some "fairly amazing submarines" and now has more diesel- and nuclear-powered vessels than the United States, a top U.S. Navy admiral told U.S. lawmakers on Wednesday, although he said their quality was inferior.

Vice Admiral Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for capabilities and resources, told the House Armed Services Committee's seapower subcommittee that China was also expanding the geographic areas of operation for its submarines, and their length of deployment.

For instance, China had carried out three deployments in the Indian Ocean, and had kept vessels out at sea for 95 days, Mulloy said.

"We know they are out experimenting and looking at operating and clearly want to be in this world of advanced submarines," Mulloy told the committee.

U.S. military officials in recent months have grown increasingly vocal about China's military buildup and launched a major push to ensure that U.S. military technology stays ahead of rapid advances by China and Russia.

Mulloy said the quality of China's submarines was lower than those built by the United States, but the size of its undersea fleet had now surpassed that of the U.S. fleet. A spokeswoman said the U.S. Navy had 71 commissioned U.S. submarines.

U.S. submarines are built by Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc. and General Dynamics Corp.

In its last annual report to Congress about China's military and security developments, the Pentagon said China had 77 principal surface combatant ships, more than 60 submarines, 55 large and medium amphibious ships, and about 85 missile-equipped small combatants.

Mulloy did not provide details about the number of surface ships now operated by China.

He said the U.S. military did not believe China carried nuclear missiles on its submarines, but that it had been producing missiles and testing them.

China submarines outnumber U.S. fleet: U.S. admiral| Reuters

Nice way to ask for more budget

 

[TaiShang]

Why would we do that?

In the current global status quo, we are adding over $1 trillion to our GDP every year, more than anyone else on Earth by far.

These are meant for deterrence.

We're not planning on invading Iraq or Afghanistan or anything like that, we are keeping others at bay, so we can continue our vital economic development.

And submarines are one of the best methods of conventional deterrence. A large and powerful submarine fleet will make it far too expensive for any other country to contemplate initiating hostilities against us.

We have very little reason to project power because we see the current framework is favoring our overseas interest. Once we felt our interests are threaten and the current framework no longer support our goal, then you will see PLA popping up oversea. In fact, we are slowly doing this, especially in Indian Sea. Soon Africa and Latin America will follow. We are currently negotiating and seeking port in those area to supply for ships. As far as fighting Argentina, again why would we fight them? But for fun, let hypothetically assume the Falkland is our territory, do you think we would not do something about it to protect it age ago? We would have bases in Cuba, Venezuela. We would even be in either US/Russia camp just so we can trespass and borrow their base. Right now, the only area that is threaten our interest is the Indian sea and you already see our navy is popping up. Just enjoy the last few years of humbleness. Soon the question of China's lack of power projection will cease to be the talk of the media.

Well said, sirs.

For one, China is not interested in policing the world.
It is the US business. It is them to keep the seal lanes open, fight the ISIS, negotiate with Taleban, provide weapons and training to nazis in Ukraine and (moderately less blood-thirsty) Jihadists in Syria.
It is the US business to keep us all safe and secure. LOL.
China is content with the current international regime as it makes another trillion dollars from it.
Where China sees something directly challenging, it attempts to change it.
If change is not possible, China initiates alternative structures.

 

[帅的一匹]

lol, you are over simplifying the matters...

1.) What you're thinking is "In the Future", nobody knows what will happens in the future, You can say in the future China can project power in Indian Ocean, Africa or Latin America, I can say tomorrow Putin can be ousted and US and Russia joint together and take over the world. LOL, nobody knows what gonna happen in the future, so we can only talk about in the present.

2.) building a base in a foreign country does not mean you own it, thus, it is not a power projection move.

Building a Port in a foreign country does NOT give you a base to operate in War Time, as that base would not be Chinese base, but will remain whatever country's the Chinese build on. Just because Chinese Built it, that does not mean that port belong to China

Say for example, if China goes into a war with India, even if Chinese are building a port in Sri Lanker, that base in Sri Lanker is not a Chinese Base and Chinese can use it only when you either occupied Sri Lanker or You manage to get Sri Lanker to fight a war with India with you,

In term of war, if a country stayed neutral, any belligerent party cannot stay in neutral port or they will be able to declare hostile by the other warring party. A foreign base may or may not be able to use in a future conflict, hence is not a clear cut power projection factors.

Also, an foreign/allies base would only serve as increase war fighting capability, but not power projection.

our top priority is to defend SCS.

 

[Beast]

May I ask, do you know what is power projection?

Iraq and Kuwait share a border, there are no power projection involve as Kuwait backyard is also Iraq's back yard lol.

Like If China defeated Vietnam or Afghanistan, that too does not count as power projection, as there are actual land border with all these countries....



lol HGV is not power projection, if so, then any sort of ballistic missile can also claim as a weapon of power proojection, even scud, cause when a weapon have a range, theoritically they can reach an enemy overseas.

What I was talking about is an Sea/Land power projection. Where you can actually and literally patrol your enemy coast in time of war.

UK did not need US help during Falkland campaign, US stayed neutral during the conflict, but since the UK jave military base in the ascension island, midway between North Atlantic and South Atlantic, they can resupply their ship and support a foreign war. Hence projecting power that way.

Lets say China want to fight a war with Argentina alone, How the Chinese ship made the Cross Pacific and Cross Atlantic journey when US refuse to let the Chinese to stage a war against Argentina? There were no base belong to China Mid Pacific or Mid Atlantic and you know for sure Chinese ship cannot make a cross ocean journey without resupply.

China do have the means for land projection. The 3 LDP 071 are more than enough to transport 2 battalion and landed almost anywhere since it's has LCAC and most Chinese marine armour ate amphibious. Our DDG air defense of HQ-9 is enough to provided air cover against 2nd or 3rd tier airforce attack.

Do you seriously think Somalia is able to stop a Chinese amphibious assault on their shore?

The huge Chinese merchant fleet can act as replenish fleet for our navy amphibious cross ocean operation.

 

[j20dragon]

lol, you are over simplifying the matters...

1.) What you're thinking is "In the Future", nobody knows what will happens in the future, You can say in the future China can project power in Indian Ocean, Africa or Latin America, I can say tomorrow Putin can be ousted and US and Russia joint together and take over the world. LOL, nobody knows what gonna happen in the future, so we can only talk about in the present.

2.) building a base in a foreign country does not mean you own it, thus, it is not a power projection move.

Building a Port in a foreign country does NOT give you a base to operate in War Time, as that base would not be Chinese base, but will remain whatever country's the Chinese build on. Just because Chinese Built it, that does not mean that port belong to China

Say for example, if China goes into a war with India, even if Chinese are building a port in Sri Lanker, that base in Sri Lanker is not a Chinese Base and Chinese can use it only when you either occupied Sri Lanker or You manage to get Sri Lanker to fight a war with India with you,

In term of war, if a country stayed neutral, any belligerent party cannot stay in neutral port or they will be able to declare hostile by the other warring party. A foreign base may or may not be able to use in a future conflict, hence is not a clear cut power projection factors.

Also, an foreign/allies base would only serve as increase war fighting capability, but not power projection.

What you are talking about is making allies so you can station base there. Once again, due to our non-intervention policy, it restrict the PLA from seeking mutual defense treaty and station base. As far as having base to wage war in Indian Sea, we have a 40 years lease agreement with Pakistan and 99 years lease for 88 hectares with Sri Lankan in time of need. How do you suppose the US can station in the middle-east? Don't tell me Saudi are happy with them there. The Royal Saudis are using the US for their protection. It's a mutual interest relationship. We could seek similar agreement in that regard.

Several factors will determine if you have power projection: Aircraft carrier group, foreign bases, troop deployment asset, air drop. Quite frankly if we want to, we can accomplish all those in 2020s. The question is not if we can or not, it is a question of whether it's a must or should.

 

[jhungary]

China do have the means for land projection. The 3 LDP 071 are more than enough to transport 2 battalion and landed almost anywhere since it's has LCAC and most Chinese marine armour ate amphibious. Our DDG air defense of HQ-9 is enough to provided air cover against 2nd or 3rd tier airforce attack.

Do you seriously think Somalia is able to stop a Chinese amphibious assault on their shore?

The huge Chinese merchant fleet can act as replenish fleet for our navy amphibious cross ocean operation.

lol if you say so...

by the way, do you know how many people is in one battalion?

What you are talking about is making allies so you can station base there. Once again, due to our non-intervention policy, it restrict the PLA from seeking mutual defense treaty and station base. As far as having base to wage war in Indian Sea, we have a 40 years lease agreement with Pakistan and 99 years lease for 88 hectares with Sri Lankan in time of need. How do you suppose the US can station in the middle-east? Don't tell me Saudi are happy with them there. The Royal Saudis are using the US for their protection. It's a mutual interest relationship. We could seek similar agreement in that regard.

Several factors will determine if you have power projection: Aircraft carrier group, foreign bases, troop deployment asset, air drop. Quite frankly if we want to, we can accomplish all those in 2020s. The question is not if we can or not, it is a question of whether it's a must or should.

lol, you do know the reason why the US in saudi arabia is that they invite the american in so to deter Saddam Hussien right?

And again , leasing a base is not the same as owning it, take philippine as an example, the American leased subic base with an open lease and they got shown the door in the 90s.

Lease bases and allies bases are good for waefighting, not for power projection

And again, you are talking about in the future......Well, unless you have sone power to see into the future, all you said would be a moot point...

 

[Beast]

lol if you say so...

by the way, do you know how many people is in one battalion?

What does it got to do with 071 LDP Projection? Or you have doubt a 071 not able to transport the 500-800men plus the armour required?

And Merchant resupplying PLAN for cross ocean ops is real. We have plenty of merchant tanker to do such task.

 

[mike2000]

I don't know why China and USA waste their effort, technology, and financial capability to stare to each others. Why not combine their effort to realize the humanity dream to reach and colonize the new frontier and begin a new era (Space Era) for humanity?

LMAO, are u serious or being sarcastic?................

 

[mike2000]

lol, now you are making the baseless assumption.

The US doesn't care you are Christian or not, if you are strong enough to challenge their hegemony, they will come after you. However, they know it is impossible to militarily take down another major nuclear power, so they will sponsor the fifth column groups to destroy you within, just like they have done to the USSR.

No, China won't become a Christian nation in the future, it is purely myth and propaganda.

BTW, Russia right now is both Christian and White, then why the US still won't let her go and keep threatening her national security from the issues of Ukraine?

BTW, in the next decade, China will even surpass the US in the nominal GDP, and if we still won't come out any nuclear sub that is comparable to the Seawolf/Virginia class, then I think we should bury ourselves 10,000 feet under the ground.

To be honest, i myself im surprise China still lags behind so much in power projection capabilities/weapons systems. Giving Chinas size/population/landmass and the rivals/ennemies it has i.e U.S and Japan(two formidable countries with a scary navy) you would have expect China to at least have build aircraft carriers much earlier(hmmmmm......well i know its mostly due to lack of technology/knowledge ot do so) even weaker import dependent India has built one and we are building 2 high tech ones which will soon be completed, One will also expect China to have built LHD which are also power projection systems('Pacifist' constrained Japan has a whooping 4 and building more). Giving Chinas world trade/dependence on exports/trade, i must say she is still very much under equipped to be honest. guess its also due to corruption in your army/high ranking officers which your president is trying to get rid of(though wont be easy). Anyway, the point is, unlike some of your brothers on here are trying to justify Chinas lagging behind in this fieldd by saying by kdepending onn the U.S/west from keeping sea lanes open/patrolling coast of major trade routes while China enjoys the benefits is rather naive/funny. So you mean you are depending on foreign powers for your trade/defence?lool Now thats a new one which should instead be a point of concern to your country, not otherwise. Im sure even Iran and Russia have more pride than some of you Chinese members on here, who are happy/contented with relying on U.S benevolence for your shipping lanes/world trade. At least i sympathise with the Iranians and Russians since they have a much weaker economy/industrial base and world trade to be able to prevent this. lol