China Still Years Ahead of India

[Malang]

That means Pakistans GDP/capita is 70.3% that of Indias. This is despite facing millions of illegal Afghan immigrants and refugees, terrorist acts which deter investors and a costly war in the north and northwest. Situation will drastically improve after the war in Afghanistan is over.

first of all

1. in absolute terms illegal Afghan immigrants do not really make much a very significant impact on GDP (govt spending yes)
2. are these Afghan immigrants treated as Pakistani citizens when calculating GDP per capita?

Similarly an Indian can claim that they also have a sizeable amounts of refugees/illegal immigrants and have possibly incur greater acts of terror than Pakistan.. and also the presence of "parallel economy"...

Situation will drastically improve when the politicians put the interests of the nation above their self-interests...

 

[ImranKhan]

As i said in some other posts I wrote a thesis for my poli-science elective regarding poverty and hunger in India, I got an A- on it so I must share it with you guys

I will paste some of what i wrote in my eassy. As this is an academic essay therefore all sources i quoted are scholarly,research based and credible:

-According to World Bank in 2005 around 86.2 percent of Indians are living on the poverty line and 44.2 percent of those are living below poverty line (Van Dijk, 2006, para. 51, table. 04).

-Furthermore Poverty is deepest among scheduled castes and tribes in the country’s rural areas. India’s poorest people include 50 per cent of members of scheduled tribes and 40 per cent of people in scheduled castes. These individuals are mostly located in India’s eastern regions of Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Orissa and West Bengal. Not surprisingly these areas also have the most of the fifth of India's population that suffers from chronic hunger (The Hindu , 2004, para. 05).

-According to United Nations agency International Fund for Agricultural Development two thirds of India’s population lives in rural areas and three out of four of these individuals live in poverty (United Nations International Fund for Agricultural Development, 2007, para. 03).

-Indeed a 2005 study by Transparency International (TI) India found that more than half of those surveyed had firsthand experience of paying bribe or peddling influence to get a job done in a public office. (Bhawan, Nagar, 2005, para. 37).

-World Bank’s research indicate that India’s Agricultural sector, which account for 18.6% of India’s GDP and employed 60% of the total workforce has been constantly on the decline since late 90’s (Worldbank, n.d, para. 02).

-The industrial sector which accounts for 27.6% of the GDP and employ 17% of the total workforce has been stagnant since the 1990s (Gordon, Poonam, 2003, para. 05).

-Research states that while “more while activity has shifted to services, employment creation in services has lagged far behind” (Gordon, Poonam, 2003, para. 27).

-Decline in agriculture and industry may prove to be a dangerous development in the long run because countries like India and china were able to withstand the 1980’s global debt crisis unlike most other third world countries thanks in part due to their self-sufficiency in food and capital goods (pg. 654. para 05). Thanks in part to globalization India will most likely lose this self-sufficiency if current trends continue.

My 2cents: comparing India and china is like comparing apples and oranges, literally. What is lost in the forum discussion is the fact that over 2 billion people combined live in crushing poverty and chronic hunger. I suggest everybody here not eat and drink for 24 hours just to feel how it feels like, poverty is indeed a terrible thing

 

[gpit]

"My 2cents: comparing India and china is like comparing apples and oranges, literally."


"..., poverty is indeed a terrible thing "

But some forumer here claims that 1) freedom is more important than not being poor/hungry; 2) some people in India love to be poor, voluntarily.

How do you think of /study on these two issues? What is the percentage of the poor who volunteer to be poor?

 

[ImranKhan]

"My 2cents: comparing India and china is like comparing apples and oranges, literally."


"..., poverty is indeed a terrible thing "

But some forumer here claims that 1) freedom is more important than not being poor/hungry; 2) some people in India love to be poor, voluntarily.

How do you think of /study on these two issues? What is the percentage of the poor who volunteer to be poor?

Well friend gpit let me post some more excerpts form my thesis essay as a response to your query:

-History has shown that economic crisis give birth to extremist politics (Baylis, Smith, pg. 75,). This is also true in India. The political ramifications of the exclusion and disenfranchisement are indeed visible and violent. Various Left-wing extremist organizations like the Communist Party of India (Maoist) are waging a violent struggle on behalf of poor rural and tribal people against landlords and others. They claim to represent the most oppressed people in India, those who are often left untouched by India's economic development and bypassed by the electoral process (Rediff, 2003, para. 07)

-Media reports indicate these organizations are involved in daily train hijacking, pillaging of government infrastructure, political assassination, and killing of army and security personal. They have made law and order and the writ of Indian government virtually non existence in large parts of eastern India. It is no surprise that Indian Prime minister Manmohan Singh described these organizations as "the single biggest internal security challenge ever faced by our country (The guardian online, 2006, para. 04).

-These political militant groups validate their objectivities and garner sympathy from the local population by pointing out to lack of development and governmental neglect. Not only that but they equally blame the globalization forces that have only come to exploit their lumber and mineral rich region in the shape of multinational mining and extraction companies. The also question the value the benefit of globalization that has benefited cities of Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai while leaving most Indians who live in rural areas undeveloped, poor and hungry (CPI, 2007.)

I finish my response by quoting from sources of wisdom, one hindu (for my indian friends) and one Jewish (Because India and Isreal are friends)

1. "The empty stomach is the chain that imprisons the man" (chach,chachnama)

2. God told prophet Abrahma (may allah bless his soul) "not to preach to hungry man since his freedom of choice is compromised by the anguish and pain of hunger" (talmund, tibarius).

 

[con]

As i said in some other posts I wrote a thesis for my poli-science elective regarding poverty and hunger in India, I got an A- on it so I must share it with you guys

I will paste some of what i wrote in my eassy. As this is an academic essay therefore all sources i quoted are scholarly,research based and credible:

-According to World Bank in 2005 around 86.2 percent of Indians are living on the poverty line and 44.2 percent of those are living below poverty line (Van Dijk, 2006, para. 51, table. 04).

-Furthermore Poverty is deepest among scheduled castes and tribes in the country’s rural areas. India’s poorest people include 50 per cent of members of scheduled tribes and 40 per cent of people in scheduled castes. These individuals are mostly located in India’s eastern regions of Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Orissa and West Bengal. Not surprisingly these areas also have the most of the fifth of India's population that suffers from chronic hunger (The Hindu , 2004, para. 05).

-According to United Nations agency International Fund for Agricultural Development two thirds of India’s population lives in rural areas and three out of four of these individuals live in poverty (United Nations International Fund for Agricultural Development, 2007, para. 03).

-Indeed a 2005 study by Transparency International (TI) India found that more than half of those surveyed had firsthand experience of paying bribe or peddling influence to get a job done in a public office. (Bhawan, Nagar, 2005, para. 37).

-World Bank’s research indicate that India’s Agricultural sector, which account for 18.6% of India’s GDP and employed 60% of the total workforce has been constantly on the decline since late 90’s (Worldbank, n.d, para. 02).

-The industrial sector which accounts for 27.6% of the GDP and employ 17% of the total workforce has been stagnant since the 1990s (Gordon, Poonam, 2003, para. 05).

-Research states that while “more while activity has shifted to services, employment creation in services has lagged far behind” (Gordon, Poonam, 2003, para. 27).

-Decline in agriculture and industry may prove to be a dangerous development in the long run because countries like India and china were able to withstand the 1980’s global debt crisis unlike most other third world countries thanks in part due to their self-sufficiency in food and capital goods (pg. 654. para 05). Thanks in part to globalization India will most likely lose this self-sufficiency if current trends continue.

My 2cents: comparing India and china is like comparing apples and oranges, literally. What is lost in the forum discussion is the fact that over 2 billion people combined live in crushing poverty and chronic hunger. I suggest everybody here not eat and drink for 24 hours just to feel how it feels like, poverty is indeed a terrible thing

Let me ask you a fundamental question. Define poverty for me.

Dont bring in the 1 dollar/ day thingi. It is just used to make the western world feel happy that they earn more dollars than "other parts of the world"!

 

[ImranKhan]

Let me ask you a fundamental question. Define poverty for me.

Dont bring in the 1 dollar/ day thingi. It is just used to make the western world feel happy that they earn more dollars than "other parts of the world"!

I am glad you asked, I also did a thesis essay on poverty for my health-ethics class entitled "food security", in that one I got straight A
So to begin, lets first poke holes in your stick-man argument about the doller-development parity index and the supposed western superiority attached to it. So lets hunt the hunter, lets use this index to judge western countries
Lets take a WESTERN country where I currently live and study called Canada, one of the G8 nations, let me copy some excerpts about it from my "food security" essay to illustrate just how "pro-western" the doller-development parity index is. Being a medical student I will sources from my Nutritional science book( )

-Poverty based on malnutrition and hunger "1200-1500 calories per day minimum recommendation...7 servings of proteins, 3 serving of carbohydrates and...minimum requirement for adequate growth and survival of human body...prevent adverse effect of hunger....permanent damage to vital organs...birth-defects...epileptic shock or even death from starvation secondary to malnutrition. Cited research conclusion came from World medical association, a non-profit organization that conducts peer review research and offers consultations to governments and non-governmental organizations (members and researchers from over 70 countries with over 700 full time contributing physicians from India(Smolin, Grosveno, 2004, page. 513, index C, graph 4.b) )

Now on to Canada:
-17% children below age 12 and 23% above age 17 are not being provided minimum nutritional requirement (Smolin, Grosveno, 2004, page. 518).
-32% citizens and 11% landed emigrants are living on borderline poverty, their resources for food and shelter based on Revenue Canada is projected to be less then 5 DOLLERS A DAY(Smolin, Grosveno, 2004, page. 518).
-3% of registered canadian nationals and 7% regfugee are homeless, malnourished and have unstable income an average 10-13 DOLLERS A WEEK (Smolin, Grosveno, 2004, page. 518).
-21% aboriginals and native Canadians live below poverty line of 1 DOLLER A DAY...suicide rates due to depression and elevated neurotic triad averages 25 individuals per week, male being 60% of those attempting suicide(Smolin, Grosveno, 2004, page. 422).

Canada has mere 31,612,897(2006) people with a GPD of $1.165 trillion (2006) and world 3rd largest reserves of petrolatum(second only to saudia Arabia and USA in proven oil reserves) yet over 1/4 of its residents live in poverty and hunger.

And I can provide loads more scholarly academic sources on poverty,hunger and how the nutrition book I use for my essay is being taught in over 22 universities in north America to countless local and international medical,nursing and pharmaceutical students, or the fact that research in this book comes from as diverse sources and Chinese medical association to west- African medical council.

Therefore one can be mature and deal with the reality or live like a toad in a water-well, either way the fact remains that 80% of Indians live in crushing poverty and hunger.

 

[gpit]

Well friend gpit let me post some more excerpts form my thesis essay as a response to your query:

-History has shown that economic crisis give birth to extremist politics (Baylis, Smith, pg. 75,). This is also true in India. The political ramifications of the exclusion and disenfranchisement are indeed visible and violent. Various Left-wing extremist organizations like the Communist Party of India (Maoist) are waging a violent struggle on behalf of poor rural and tribal people against landlords and others. They claim to represent the most oppressed people in India, those who are often left untouched by India's economic development and bypassed by the electoral process (Rediff, 2003, para. 07)

-Media reports indicate these organizations are involved in daily train hijacking, pillaging of government infrastructure, political assassination, and killing of army and security personal. They have made law and order and the writ of Indian government virtually non existence in large parts of eastern India. It is no surprise that Indian Prime minister Manmohan Singh described these organizations as "the single biggest internal security challenge ever faced by our country (The guardian online, 2006, para. 04).

-These political militant groups validate their objectivities and garner sympathy from the local population by pointing out to lack of development and governmental neglect. Not only that but they equally blame the globalization forces that have only come to exploit their lumber and mineral rich region in the shape of multinational mining and extraction companies. The also question the value the benefit of globalization that has benefited cities of Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai while leaving most Indians who live in rural areas undeveloped, poor and hungry (CPI, 2007.)

I finish my response by quoting from sources of wisdom, one hindu (for my indian friends) and one Jewish (Because India and Isreal are friends)

1. "The empty stomach is the chain that imprisons the man" (chach,chachnama)

2. God told prophet Abrahma (may allah bless his soul) "not to preach to hungry man since his freedom of choice is compromised by the anguish and pain of hunger" (talmund, tibarius).

Thank you very much for your great response. And wish you a smooth sail in your study and pursuit of wisdom!

 

[ImranKhan]

Thank you very much for your great response. And wish you a smooth sail in your study and pursuit of wisdom!

Thank you