China spends 1.4% of GDP on defense

[Brotherhood]

Upholding the legacy of grey boy2 are you?

Congratulations!Just when this thread was coming to a logical end,you end up posting stuff which is a troll magnet.

Well, actually i read quite a few of his posts, pretty entertaining though, the most senior Chinese member on this forum, nothing but respect he last 2500plus posts on this forum dealing with so many friendly people on a daily basis.

You know what, me and greyboy have something in common, we won't attack unless being provoked, did you ever found my foot print on any Indian thread to troll?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Well, actually i read quite a few of his posts, pretty entertaining though, the most senior Chinese member on this forum, nothing but respect he last 2500plus posts on this forum dealing with so many friendly people on a daily basis.

You know what, me and greyboy have something in common, we won't attack unless being provoked, did you ever found my foot print on any Indian thread to troll?

You seem not so different from most of the members here,with your Knee-jerk reaction syndrome,but you should know when the thread has reached it course.

I won't go long on this ,you can carry on

PS:you also have one more thing in common,both of you are from Hong Kong

 

[Brotherhood]

You seem not so different from most of the members here,with your Knee-jerk reaction syndrome,but you should know when the thread has reached it course.

I won't go long on this ,you can carry on

PS:you also have one more thing in common,both of you are from Hong Kong

Pal, i am just a common people like many others, do not expect me being a saint either.
Oh, about the highlighted part, i knew very well what you hinting, go and check out my message board, you are not the first or will be the last regarding your doubt, your answer will be why "I am still here"?
PS, there are quite a few Indians on this forum i like, you happened to be one of it, so lets agree to disagree, OK?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Pal, i am just a common people like many others, do not expect me being a saint either.
Oh, about the highlighted part, i knew very well what you hinting, go and check out my message board, you are not the first or will be the last regarding your doubt, your answer will be why "I am still here"?
PS, there are quite a few Indians on this forum i like, you happened to be one of it, so lets agree to disagree, OK?

Hmmm......okaey!

 

[yangtomous]

The thing is diffrent for you points .every years the PLAN office can recieve a lots donate for built aircraff carrier even the ofice never say something about donate at all.I can tell you a turth thing .if China is a country as democracy as you hope .The Chinese defense budget would much larger than now.just ask any Chinese is it the budget too high,you would shut up for if China is a democracy country , Chinese defense budget would lower than nowadays .
is there any you consider that ,on the China websites full of the goverment is too weak and ask larger defence budget.
which transparent is you transparent?transparent and then you can say China isn't a threat ?
transparent is not the people who say China is a big threat purpose.the aim they want is China can't spent any money on defence and keep weak .

 

[Renegade]

As a matter of fact we can, because not long ago a new rule was taken in effects that all government officials in China are required to disclose their assets.
New Anti-corruption Asset Disclosure Rule | China Hearsay.

As a matter of fact you cant. Under this so called new rule the only the Communist Part is told about the assests & not the average Chineese citizen. You cant ask your government anything, not will they tell you anything. I suggest you do a little better reading of this new rule, having enlightened youself about it you will find that it is not so new after all.

Such appalling levels of ignorence and still you have the confidence to rake up issues.

Anyways, back to the topic of budget transparency. Just let me ask you a question, do you know what the India government budget report is about? Let's forget about India here for a second, take US for an example. How many people in US will ever read the budget report, let alone the people who will understand it. Do you know how many pages it has? The entire file size is 34.7M in zip format using .pdf. I will give you a link to it, if you can finish reading it line by line and understand what it says, then you must be very educated in the matters of US politics and finance.

US entire FY11 Budget.

Yes i do know what the Indian Govt budget report is about, it is clearly mentioned in the Budget document as to how much money is assigned to each scheme and what are objectives to be achieved. The budget is discussed openly in the Parliament of India and is telecated live throught the coutry, something that never happens in China.

By the way, you understanding about the budgetary process is alarming. Please do some reding instead of boring us to death with such naive questions.

After that let's assume that you are an US citzen and you have a problem with how the budget allocates its resource. Well, can you call your president? The best you can do is to find your local congressional representatives in your district if you are lucky enough to be granted audience and make a complain about it. The story will end just right here after your complaining, because the representive will vote accordingly with what the party leader tells him to vote on this budget whether it is yes or no. The each allocation of funds in the budget are proportional distributed by whoever lobby the hardest. Also alot of its spendings in the budget are compromises of partisan politics.

I can give you counter arguments, but there is no point discussing the democratic financial system with a chap who is alien to the concept of democracy itself. Its like talking quantum physics with a kid who has simply no grasp of the very basics of Physics. It simply makes no sense.

Bottom line, whome do you think has more say in their countries financial policies; an Indian/American citizen or a Chineese citizen??

So you are powerless in the end, however you can still go to bed with the imagination that you have a saying in the budget process.
Bismarck said "Je weniger die Leute darüber wissen, wie Würste und Gesetze gemacht werden, desto besser schlafen sie nachts. "(The less the people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they sleep in the night.) In this case budget too, since they are made by the same people. .

This type of argument by you is fast approaching the point of absurdity. Some of your arguments are so naive, that i have difficulty comprehending and answer to it. Again and again your understanding of the democratic process is at the root of the problem. Do educate yourself & save the rest of us an headache.

 

[Renegade]

What are you talking about? Bad transparency and accountability is inherently linked to corruption. You just shot yourself in the foot

Fair point. Yes they are interlinked. But the connection here is little more complicated than that.

I spoke of lack of transperency and accountability in the context of fudging up figures in realtion to the defence budget, where is any relation to corruption in this context. Your friend simply brought out corruption to sidetrack the main issue. Read my post carefully you might get it.

 

[Renegade]

Just because a certain amount of money is spent on the military does not mean that the money is used properly. The United States is a good example of this, just because they spend 600 billion on military does not mean that they have a 600 billion army.

The pentagon buys $2.98 hammers that you can get at walmart, they pay $100 each for these. They buy toilet seats for $600, coffee machine for $10,000. Millions also go missing in the US treasury every year.

My point is that money can be funneled, the money spent buying the $100 hammer could have been funneled into some other project or into somebody's pocket.

Very true but your point here is more to do with corruption than diversion of money and lack of budgetary accountability. As you might have noticed that these issues came out after investigation by American agencies themslves and free reporting by the American press. By this very logic the accountability mechanism in a democracy does work. Such policies cost Donald Rumfeld his job, that accoutability. Though democracy is not a perfet system it is way better than an authoritarian system, where accountability and transperency simply dont exist. Had it been China Donal Rumsfeld would have still been heading the Penatgon.

In the US even the CIA budget and its operations are under Congressional oversight. So there is simply no need to divert. The US Congress votes for the Defence and Intelligence budgets and knows how ad where the money is spent. This percolates down to the media not in the form of minute details but as broad picture ensuring transperency in the system. That not being the case in China.

 

[Renegade]

Well aren't you the eager beaver that jumped all over the non-indian related thread in WA just because it used an Indian newspaper as a source? I mean serious instant troll label there, imagining slights coming from all sides, so quick to defend India all chest out and indignant. .

Eager bevaer or not, you have shied away from answering a direct question about Hu. Let me see you answer that.

The funniest thing is that you think the Presidents electricity bill or similar deductables is what makes up a significant portion of a normal nation’s budget.

You simply didnt get the drift did you? The Presidents electricity bill was an example to illustrate the openness that surrounds public finances in India and is reflective of the transperent financial practices in other aspects of state spending. I wont be too surprised if you still dont get it, but i had to make an effort.

I can ask such stuff & more in India and the government has to answer, can you say the same foir China?? Lets see you answer this.

It is silly to think that these entrenched traditions are completely gone and that India is a friendlier place for bussiness than oohh say China.

Ooh India is not yet a friendlier place for business than China, but the days of license raj and red tape are long gone. But unlike in China foreign businessmen dont have to boither about getting arrested and being sent to jail as happened in the Rio Tinto case in China.

That’s exactly it, isn't it? India is good at reading about it and China is good at doing something about it. The list you mentioned, everyone of them have markedly improved due to government and popular focus facilitated by free internet bulltin boards (ie BBS, Twitter etc).

Besides didn’t it occur to you that if you know about these problems, that it proves the system is more open than you’d like to admit? Or are you going to pretend to have privileged knowledge because of your "freedom" in india?

The Chineese system is only as open as the Party Bosses want it to be, a luxury that is simply not the perogative of the average Chineese citizen. and my knowledge of such issues in China comes from western sources and not because the Communist Part has done a great favour to the domestic press by giving them little freedom in only one aspect of reporting. But still journalists are punished by the cesnors if they cross the line. My God, the system is indeed more open than i would like to think. what a surprise!!!!!

I don't usually entertain trolls but I just couldn't help myself this time.

Develop more restrain my friend, for if you so easily let your emotions get the better of you and speak up you will be in big trouble once you get back to the mainland and start speaking up. For the system is still not as open as you would like to think.

 

[Brotherhood]

Eager bevaer or not, you have shied away from answering a direct question about Hu. Let me see you answer that.




You simply didnt get the drift did you? The Presidents electricity bill was an example to illustrate the openness that surrounds public finances in India and is reflective of the transperent financial practices in other aspects of state spending. I wont be too surprised if you still dont get it, but i had to make an effort.

I can ask such stuff & more in India and the government has to answer, can you say the same foir China?? Lets see you answer this.






Ooh India is not yet a friendlier place for business than China, but the days of license raj and red tape are long gone. But unlike in China foreign businessmen dont have to boither about getting arrested and being sent to jail as happened in the Rio Tinto case in China.








The Chineese system is only as open as the Party Bosses want it to be, a luxury that is simply not the perogative of the average Chineese citizen. and my knowledge of such issues in China comes from western sources and not because the Communist Part has done a great favour to the domestic press by giving them little freedom in only one aspect of reporting. But still journalists are punished by the cesnors if they cross the line. My God, the system is indeed more open than i would like to think. what a surprise!!!!!






Develop more restrain my friend, for if you so easily let your emotions get the better of you and speak up you will be in big trouble once you get back to the mainland and start speaking up. For the system is still not as open as you would like to think.

You are being reported for no-stop trolling, keep it up while it last.
Regarding all your troll posts, read post 44 for all your answers.
PS, wonder you have the word "dignity" in your dictionary.

 

[dingyibvs]

Eager bevaer or not, you have shied away from answering a direct question about Hu. Let me see you answer that.




You simply didnt get the drift did you? The Presidents electricity bill was an example to illustrate the openness that surrounds public finances in India and is reflective of the transperent financial practices in other aspects of state spending. I wont be too surprised if you still dont get it, but i had to make an effort.

I can ask such stuff & more in India and the government has to answer, can you say the same foir China?? Lets see you answer this.






Ooh India is not yet a friendlier place for business than China, but the days of license raj and red tape are long gone. But unlike in China foreign businessmen dont have to boither about getting arrested and being sent to jail as happened in the Rio Tinto case in China.








The Chineese system is only as open as the Party Bosses want it to be, a luxury that is simply not the perogative of the average Chineese citizen. and my knowledge of such issues in China comes from western sources and not because the Communist Part has done a great favour to the domestic press by giving them little freedom in only one aspect of reporting. But still journalists are punished by the cesnors if they cross the line. My God, the system is indeed more open than i would like to think. what a surprise!!!!!






Develop more restrain my friend, for if you so easily let your emotions get the better of you and speak up you will be in big trouble once you get back to the mainland and start speaking up. For the system is still not as open as you would like to think.

So I wonder, how many Indians have been lifted out of poverty by knowing the president's electric bill? If everything's so open in India, how come rampant corruption still exists?

 

[chauism]

As a matter of fact you cant. Under this so called new rule the only the Communist Part is told about the assests & not the average Chineese citizen. You cant ask your government anything, not will they tell you anything. I suggest you do a little better reading of this new rule, having enlightened youself about it you will find that it is not so new after all.

Well, what is the use of it appearing to the public. Even those financial disclosure papers of government officials in US are not available to the general public until it is leaked through other sources. It is called Confidential Financial Disclosure Report in US for a reason.

Yes i do know what the Indian Govt budget report is about, it is clearly mentioned in the Budget document as to how much money is assigned to each scheme and what are objectives to be achieved. The budget is discussed openly in the Parliament of India and is telecated live throught the coutry, something that never happens in China.

By the way, you understanding about the budgetary process is alarming. Please do some reding instead of boring us to death with such naive questions.

You somehow missed this part in my post and insisted your misunderstanding of India's budgetary process is amusing to me.

The legislature comes into the budget picture only after it has been presented in Parliament. It has less than three months to discuss and pass the budget. The volume of proposals and policies involved do not allow adequate time to discuss the budget in any depth. Also of concern are parliamentary competence to understand the complexity of the accounting issues and program overview to enable any meaningful oversight.

The budget process (i.e., the process of budget preparation, presentation before the legislature, legalization and periodic review) and budget policies (i.e., the socioeconomic policies adhered to by the government in deciding the priorities in the budget) do not come under substantial public scrutiny. The budget presentation and consequent legislation is recorded and reported and available to the public.


During the budget-preparation phase, until the budget is presented before Parliament, only a handful of entities are involved in the budget proposals and the policy priorities driving those proposals: the chief economic advisor of the Reserve Bank of India (the central bank of the country); various parliamentary standing committees, which look into the expenditures of different ministries and their demands; certain government-funded research institutions and the Ministry of Finance.

Transparency and accountability of government budget in India

Conclusion: Common Indian citizens have no access to the budget process.

I can give you counter arguments, but there is no point discussing the democratic financial system with a chap who is alien to the concept of democracy itself. Its like talking quantum physics with a kid who has simply no grasp of the very basics of Physics. It simply makes no sense.

This type of argument by you is fast approaching the point of absurdity. Some of your arguments are so naive, that i have difficulty comprehending and answer to it. Again and again your understanding of the democratic process is at the root of the problem. Do educate yourself & save the rest of us an headache.

I have lived in US for 15 years and learned from my uncle who worked with various congressional delegates for campaign contributions in US. The reality in politics is that there are more skeletons in the closet than you think. The real difference is in US they build corruption into their system and made it legal and open to the public. What you have said there is based on your liberal idealism, and what I have said is based on day to day real politics.

Bottom line, whome do you think has more say in their countries financial policies; an Indian/American citizen or a Chineese citizen??

This one is easy. Big corporates and special interests groups has more saying in the democratic politics. Money equals speech. Anyone who says differently is being either too idealistic or just plain naive in politics.

 

[chauism]

You simply didnt get the drift did you? The Presidents electricity bill was an example to illustrate the openness that surrounds public finances in India and is reflective of the transperent financial practices in other aspects of state spending. I wont be too surprised if you still dont get it, but i had to make an effort.

That did not stop many Indian politicians to be corrupted.

Ooh India is not yet a friendlier place for business than China, but the days of license raj and red tape are long gone. But unlike in China foreign businessmen dont have to boither about getting arrested and being sent to jail as happened in the Rio Tinto case in China.

Well, anyone would be arrested if they are involved in industrial espionage as it happened in Rio Tinto case.

China ranked far ahead of India in Ease of Doing Business Index 2010(89 vs 133), despite India's license raj and red tape are long gone, and have a democratic and open government.

Ease of Doing Business Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rankings - Doing Business - The World Bank Group

The Chineese system is only as open as the Party Bosses want it to be, a luxury that is simply not the perogative of the average Chineese citizen. and my knowledge of such issues in China comes from western sources and not because the Communist Part has done a great favour to the domestic press by giving them little freedom in only one aspect of reporting. But still journalists are punished by the cesnors if they cross the line. My God, the system is indeed more open than i would like to think. what a surprise!!!!!

Those western journalists must be really well connected within the CCP power circles to have that kind of informations. It is no secret that Chinese government is not as open as others, but it is not completed closed.

Develop more restrain my friend, for if you so easily let your emotions get the better of you and speak up you will be in big trouble once you get back to the mainland and start speaking up. For the system is still not as open as you would like to think.

Maybe you should check out this site, and see what kind of things and criticism people had been saying there. Of course censorship exists in that site, but you are the one that will be surprised by how open it can be in China. Don't open it with Firefox as it does not work properly with it.

China Daily Website - Connecting China Connecting the World