China signs agreement with Russia for 4 Amur-1650 submarines

[Globenim]

it's a marketing ploy.. the russian navy rejected the amur, prefer to upgrade the kilo instead. this so called state of the art sub project is dying. the sub maker is desperate..

And as usual the target of this cheap marketing still easily took the bait and got hooked.

 

[conworldus]

Typical propaganda. No contract has been signed. What's signed is just a cooperation agreement in which Russia displayed the desire to sell the subs.

 

[Audio]

Even Russia will buy if given the chance , like they did with Mistral ... What is wrong with that ?

Russia has (had) a completely shattered shipbuilding industry, facilities falling apart, skilled personnel all ran to the west. China on the other hand did not have any of Russia's misfortune in the past few decades.

Nothing wrong with it. Have the best to learn from the best. China is smart.

It's wrong when they come here crying how better off their copy-cat gear is to the original. All sorts of superlatives then get thrown in the mix lol.
But i guess these recent buys are sort of vindications for all of us who have said indigenous Chinese is not all the rage it's made out to be.

it's a marketing ploy.. the russian navy rejected the amur, prefer to upgrade the kilo instead. this so called state of the art sub project is dying. the sub maker is desperate..

The keel for the lead sub in class, Sankt-Petersburg (B-585), was laid down in December 1997 and launched in October 2004. The submarine was delivered to the Russian Navy in April 2010 and commissioned in May 2010.
Two submarines under construction are: Kronshtadt (B-586) - laid in July 2005 - and Sevastopol (B-587) - laid in November 2006. The Russian Navy plans to build a total of eight Lada Class submarines.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-677-lada-class-project-1650-amur-class-submarines/

Amur = export version of Lada class.

If you have any newer data, i'd be most grateful if you can share.

 

[KRAIT]

@Audio Actually I did take a jibe on trolls who bash India for buying weapons from other countries. But thought what's the point. Totally agree with you BTW.

 

[Akasa]

This is yet again one of those one sided news with no confirmation from the Chinese side whatsoever. If China was buying the Amur, then there would be no need to test the Type 043 and to build the Type 041, all of which are happening. China is even developing its next generation diesel electric submarine with a new propulsion system. So this again proves that the purchase is illogical and almost certainly false.

Correct. Isn't this obvious?
Chinese military hardware is average, only sufficient for smaller countries. Chinese ambition is much bigger and required world class weapons, and hence going for Amur class. China also bought Kilo class submarines from Russia.

So Amur > Kilo > Chinese subs

For top hardware, China imports, for keeping up numbers, China builds.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Chinese subs (Type 041, Type 043) came AFTER the Kilos were already well in Chinese service. The kilos also never went on combat patrols, so the situation is actually the other way around.

You Have a very Valid Point.

Same Goes for :

China Getting Su 35 ( Just 40 that too 4th Gen ) when they Have 2 Fifth Gen Fighters.... Why ?
They Get RD 93s and AL 31 from Russia.... What about WS 10s ?
And Now the Amurs... Same Question.



I second That.

Actually, the Su-35 rumor was originated from 2006 and has been circulating every two years since. It hasn't happened, and seeing that China's own Flankers are approaching equivalence, it's highly doubtful that it will happen anytime soon.

 

[Secur]

Russia has (had) a completely shattered shipbuilding industry, facilities falling apart, skilled personnel all ran to the west. China on the other hand did not have any of Russia's misfortune in the past few decades.

But i guess these recent buys are sort of vindications for all of us who have said indigenous Chinese is not all the rage it's made out to be.

I am aware of the state of the USSR after its collapse and how its engineers were hired by the Chinese and Western companies ... I was merely saying that if Russia with decades of experience and a solid industry back then could buy the Mistral , there's nothing if Chinese do the same ... There's nothing wrong with that ...

But why are these purchases only made by the Russian media and not made in the real world ? Cmon we have been hearing the additional AL31 engines , SU 35 aircraft and arrestor cable for AC news for quite some time now ... Is the deal signed ? Why does it keep surfacing after every 3-4 months and later denied by the PLA ?

 

[terranMarine]

free publicity so more countries would be interested in it

 

[qwerrty]

Amur = export version of Lada class.

If you have any newer data, i'd be most grateful if you can share.

you don't think it's marketing ploy?
this boat is still a work in progress. the AIP is not even tested yet..

Russian Navy to Drop Lada Class Subs – CinC Vysotsky
Ria Novosti ^ | 09/02/2012



Russian Navy to Drop Lada Class Subs – CinC Vysotsky

The Russian Navy has decided against construction of Lada class submarines (Project 677) and will instead modernize its existing boats, Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

The design of the diesel-electric Lada class was completed at the end of the 1990s, but none of the planned boats have entered service, although the lead ship in the class, the Saint Petersburg, is undergoing trials with the Baltic Fleet, Vysotsky said.

“The Russian Navy does not need the Lada in its current form,” he said.

Vysotsky also said the first the non-nuclear Russian submarine with anaerobic propulsion may begin trials in 2014.

Currently all of Russia’s submarines are either nuclear or diesel-electric powered.

“It is entirely possible we will receive a test version of an air-independent power plant in the next few years. On boats of the Lada class, two of which are already laid down. Trials may begin in 2014. That is absolutely realistic,” he said.

In addition, all of Russia’s active strategic submarines will be armed with Liner ballistic missiles, an advanced version of the Sineva missile, Vysotsky said.

“For now only those on combat patrol in the Pacific Ocean are equipped with them. But in future all our active strategic submarines - Delfin and Kalmar (Delta III and Delta IV) - will be armed with these missiles,” he said.

Construction of a new aircraft carrier will begin before 2020, Vysotsky said.

“Actual construction of the ship will begin before 2020 and will be completed after 2020. The design of the new carrier complex will be determined in the course of two years, by 2014,” he said.

The Admiral Kuznetsov is currently the Russian Navy’s only active aircraft carrier.

Vysotsky confirmed that the Bulava ballistic missile and the strategic nuclear submarine Yury Dolgoruky would enter service simultaneously this year.

 

[Akasa]

free publicity so more countries would be interested in it

Oh, by the way, if the Russian news came true every time, then the PLA would have the following in large numbers:

- T-90
- Tu-22M3
- Tu-160
- Su-35
- Su-33
- T-50
- Slava

you don't think it's marketing ploy?

Of course it's a marketing ploy. The other countries can't get into the minds of Chinese leaders, so they probably believe the Russians. If the product gets fame, others will buy it. Note how the Amur and the Lada failed to enter Russian service.

 

[qwerrty]

i rank the purchase of slava cruiser as the most dubious fake news ever from russian media

 

[pzkilo]

-S400
-mig31
-mig29
-mig35

etc.....

Oh, by the way, if the Russian news came true every time, then the PLA would have the following in large numbers:

- T-90
- Tu-22M3
- Tu-160
- Su-35
- Su-33
- T-50
- Slava



Of course it's a marketing ploy. The other countries can't get into the minds of Chinese leaders, so they probably believe the Russians. If the product gets fame, others will buy it. Note how the Amur and the Lada failed to enter Russian service.

 

[djsjs]

russian news.they are good businessmen.they know how to advertise their products.true or not ,this news will is good for them.the anti-China evils who cann't buy amarican weapens would be in a hurry for russians.
for us,it is nothing serious.if the Amur is really better than ours,buy and learn to build it.$2 billion is not a big number that we cann't afford.we have too much foreign exchange reserves,spending them is better than let them sleep in the warehouse.

 

[帅的一匹]

Buy some to assimilate it, it help us to spend some USD reserve.

 

[Srinivas]

What ever the news Pakistanis here are disappointed more than Chinese

 

[sweetgrape]

China Mulls Buying Russian Submarines
China may become the first buyer of the Amur-1650 submarines, beating out
India and Venezuela, both of which previously expressed interest, Kommersant
said.
Source
China mulls buying Russian submarines | The Moscow Times

I think this is real point.

russian news.they are good businessmen.they know how to advertise their products.true or not ,this news will is good for them.the anti-China evils who cann't buy amarican weapens would be in a hurry for russians.
for us,it is nothing serious.if the Amur is really better than ours,buy and learn to build it.$2 billion is not a big number that we cann't afford.we have too much foreign exchange reserves,spending them is better than let them sleep in the warehouse.

In fact, Russian is not a good businessman, they are losing its customer!!
I think Russia are using China as brand spokesperson, but don't know whether Russia pay for these:


Russia: Hey, Friend, In my hand, there are a good weapon, Amur, do you have interest?

China: I know it, good weapon, but I have my 041, and 042 is coming, don't have spare money for it, sorry.

Russia: Oh, after last several big deals, SU-27, Sovremenny class destroyer, we don't do big deal, especially in recent years.

China: I also want to keep buying some weapon from you, I had sent the order, the arrestor, S-400, the vector engine, but you all deny these, and more, you sell much better weapon to India.

Russia: You copy the weapon without my permission.

China: You are expert, you know how hard to made weapon, you also believe these? whatever, for your support to our development of our defence, I have a idea, you can leak the fake news that China will buy four Amur-1650.

Russia: Can't understand it.

China: you are hypocritic, you have done such thing many times, because you promote our defence development much, so I don't mind these.

Russia: HEHE, Sorry, you have knew it! but last several times, it seems not work.

China: This time, maybe it will work, you know, now, India is lacking of submarine, but my advice, you should change your business manner, you delay indian carrier many times, do anyone can't tolerate these, and your after sale service is so bad, you should change these, or you will lose more business.

Russia: I know, but we are not good at these, Soviet Union also not good at these, we just inherit part not all Soviet Union, and now, we lack skilled worker for shipbuilding, we are training workers through the chance.

China: You are bad man.

Russia: Just so so, OK, I will go to publish the fake news as you advise, whatever, thank you very much,Bye.

China: Bye.

Russia: BTW, be frankly, T-50 have many problems, I do also not know whether it can meet the furture need, if T-50 fail, hope you can sell J-20 to us.

China: You are really bad man, If Indian know these, they will want to kill you, hehehe.....

Russia: They always want, they have no idea, but ontopic, could you consider my request.

China: I will, but if you can transfer your last engine technology, I can give you my decision now.

Russia: Oh, let me consider, OK, Bye.

China: Bye.
China Muttered to itself: want cheat me, no way, but its engine and submarine technology is good, he just live on past gains, what a pity.