China sends warplanes to newly established air defense zone

[Oldman1]

Indians.

ADIZ is an early warning zone.

China monitors every aircraft that enters a zone.

The aircraft that enters the zone can identify themselves or ignore it.

China will only deploy fighters if the aircraft don't IDENTIFY themselves AND keep coming towards the Chinese mainland.

If an aircraft don't identify themselves and keep coming towards the Chinese mainland, then China has to take precaution and intercept the aircraft coming towards China.

The B-52 was only around the very outer edge of the zone, so they posed no threat to the Chinese mainland as they weren't coming towards China. There was no need to deploy fighters.

I think you need to understand how this ADIZ zone works first. Many countries have ADIZ but not all ADIZ have the same rules.

ADIZ is like a warning zone for China which China will start monitoring any aircraft that enters the zone.

This is not a no-fly-zone or an extension of Chinese airspace.

An ADIZ is still international airspace. The Chinese rule is that if an aircraft identify itself, then China knows what it's doing so even if it comes towards the Chinese mainland, we don't need to deploy fighters as we already know what the aircraft is.

It is only when an aircraft fails to identify themselves but keeps going deep into the ADIZ, then the PLAAF will assess the threat to the Chinese mainland and then deploy the fighters.

I know Indians like to take shots at China, it would be helpful if you fully understand the role of China's ADIZ first before trolling Chinese members.

This ain't about early warning. This is about staking a claim to a couple of islands.

 

[shuntmaster]

Those Chinese planes are at least enough to make another 1962 sino war

Were you hibernating under some rock for the past few decades? Its been 51years since 1962 and lot of things have changed and lots of things have happened since that time, like for Eg. 1971.

 

[sweetgrape]

Have to read the whole damn thing first ?



UNARMED is the main thing here, USA played the game which china ignored like they always do but the clear message been given to USA now ...

No need argue with these idiotic indian clown, know nothing on ADIZ, what do they know? now, they are very high, happy neurotically!

 

[truthlover]

Were you hibernating under some rock for the past few decades? Its been 51years since 1962 and lot of things have changed and lots of things have happened since that time, like for Eg. 1971.

No need to teach me history ) I know what happened in 1971 but i am not talking big like those indians and underestimating the chinese war planes capability .So go teach your indian freinds some history they really need your history classes)

 

[Oldman1]

Soon it'll be reality to the American Japanies and The Korean and they will recognize it as China's ADIZ and they will try to avoid it the Chinese played it well.

Avoid it? Heck recently Japan and Korea just sent aircraft there. Its like nothing happened.

 

[wealdcn017]

The differences between accepted international courtesies versus the Chinese rules have been noted even by journalists, let alone aviation professionals.

Statement on the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone

There are two separate rules for any flight:

- Intending to enter national airspace require passage thru an ADIZ and require filed flight plan.

- No intention of entering national airspace but wanting/requiring only passage thru an ADIZ does not require a filed flight plan.

The Chinese rules are that filed flight plans are required no matter which and if there are no filed flight plan, regardless of intentions, the aircraft is to follow Chinese instructions. Failure to obey opened the doors for the Chinese to do whatever they want.

So yes, it is essentially correct that for the Chinese, no aircraft, civilian or military, armed or unarmed, is supposed to enter this ADIZ without informing, aka filed flight plan, the Chinese.

Chinese ADIZ is only to stop pearl harbor affair occur again!

 

[p3avi8tor69]

How hard is it to understand that an AIR DEFENSE IDENTIFICATION ZONE is not an AIR DEFENSE ZONE?

And air defense identification zone simply is one in which all aircraft are identified (hence its name), which means that tracking it with radar, which happened with the bombers, is sufficient and is a response in its own right.

It is not hard to understand, but it was the Chinese who declared to the world that should an aircraft enter this zone and not blah blah blah that it will take "emergency defence measures". A couple of B-52 went over and not a whiff of response from China. Did they just pissed their pants when they saw the B52 or were they just too incompetent and did not imagine such a response. I think its the latter.

 

[Akasa]

It is not hard to understand, but it was the Chinese who declared to the world that should an aircraft enter this zone and not blah blah blah that it will take "emergency defence measures". A couple of B-52 went over and not a whiff of response from China. Did they just pissed their pants when they saw the B52 or were they just too incompetent and did not imagine such a response. I think its the latter.

Well, what response should China have carried out? They tracked the bombers with their radar, identified them, thus achieving the entire purpose without needing to intercept them.

 

[Zarvan]

(CNN) -- China sent fighter jets into its newly claimed -- and hotly disputed -- air defense zone above the East China Sea on Thursday, the same day that Japan's military firmly insisted its own patrols over the area wouldn't stop because of Beijing's declaration.

The People's Liberation Army Air Force flew warplanes, including Su-30 and J-11 aircraft, into the "air defense identification zone" that Beijing announced last week, air force spokesman Col. Shen Jinke said. A KJ-2000 -- an airborne radar early warning system -- also took flight.

The Russian-developed Su-30 is a two-seat aircraft described by its manufacturer as "a highly maneuverable fighter" capable of hitting ground and sea-surface targets. The Chinese-made J-11 is a single-seat fighter also capable of ground attacks.

The fighter jets conducted "routine air patrols ... aiming to strengthen monitoring on air targets in the zone and fulfill the air force's historic mission," Shen said in a statement posted on the Chinese defense ministry's website.

Jinke portrayed the mission as a "defensive measure ... in line with international practices." China's military has been on "high alert," he added, and is prepared to act "based on different air threats to firmly ensure air-defense safety."

What comes of Beijing's latest foray over its controversial newly created zone remained to be determined early Friday. Still, some of its previous actions -- including the declaration itself -- have been met with staunch resistance by Japan and its longtime ally, the United States.

On Thursday, Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said his nation's Self Defense Force has used ships and planes to patrol and conduct surveillance in the East China Sea since before China claimed the air defense zone that covers much of the sea.

And they wouldn't stop, he insisted.

"We have no intention to change this operation in consideration for China," Suga told reporters.

"... We will continue the surveillance/patrol operation with strong determination to protect our territory against China's one-sided attempt to change the status quo by force."

Japan isn't alone in disobeying China, which has warned military measures could be taken if planes entering the zone fail to identify themselves and submit flight planes to Chinese authorities.

Two unarmed U.S. B-52 bombers recently flew through the area in what the U.S. State Department characterized as a planned military exercise.

READ: B-52s defy China's new air defense zone

War of words

China has grown more assertive beyond its recognized borders since Chinese President Xi Jinping took office about a year ago -- creating a delicate situation for Washington, which has promised to focus more on Asia and uphold commitments to its allies in the region.

"Unlike his predecessors, Xi is making foreign policy with the mindset of a great power, increasingly probing U.S. commitments to its allies in the region and exploiting opportunities to change the status quo," Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, director of Asia-Pacific programs at the U.S. Institute of Peace, wrote in a commentary for CNN.com this week

The United States and Japan have criticized Beijing's air defense announcement, saying it escalates tensions in the region and raises the risk of an incident. They say they won't recognize the new zone.

China hit back at those comments with strong words of its own, describing the U.S. and Japanese statements as unreasonable and unacceptable.

After news of the U.S. flights emerged, the Chinese Defense Ministry responded cautiously Wednesday, saying it had monitored the planes' activity on the edge of the air defense zone. The statement held back from criticizing the U.S. action.

At a regular briefing later Wednesday, a journalist asked a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman if Beijing is concerned it will now be seen as a "paper tiger."

"I want to emphasize that the Chinese government has enough resolution and capability to safeguard the country's sovereignty and security," replied the spokesman, Qin Gang.

Why China's new air zone incensed Japan, U.S.

Difficult to monitor

Monday's U.S. bomber flights also highlight the challenges that analysts say China faces in policing its newly claimed air zone.

In its statement Wednesday, the Chinese Defense Ministry said that "China has the capability to exercise effective control" over the area.

"Beijing might have bitten off a bit more than they can chew because actually going out and monitoring these things on an ongoing basis is probably a bit beyond the capabilities of the Chinese air force right now," said Greg Waldron, Asia managing editor of FlightGlobal, an aviation and aerospace industry website.

"In a sense, it's more a rhetorical statement, as opposed to a realistic military space," he said.

Adding to the complications and confusion surrounding the zone, Japan's two main commercial airlines said Wednesday that following a request from the Japanese government, they and other members of the Scheduled Airlines Association of Japan will not submit flight plans to Chinese authorities for flights through the zone claimed by Beijing.

The two carriers, Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways, said the association had concluded that there would be "no impact" on the safety of passengers on board flights through the zone without the submission of flight plans to China.

But Waldron said he wasn't entirely sure about that. From a legal point of view, he said, the airlines probably don't have to report their plans and follow all the rules requested by China.

"I think from a safety perspective, it's a good idea for them to do so," he said. "Just in case."

'The right of every country'

Since it declared the new air defense zone over the weekend, China has been busy making its case for why it feels the move was justified.

It has pointed out that other countries already operate air defense identification zones in waters around their territory, noting that Japan has had a zone in place in the East China Sea since the 1960s.

"It's natural, it's indeed the right of every country to defend its airspace and also to make sure that its territorial integrity, its sovereignty are safeguarded," China's U.N. Ambassador Liu Jieyi said Tuesday.

But analysts say that by declaring a zone that now overlaps with that of Japan, China has increased the likelihood of a high-risk incident in the air.

China slams 'inappropriate' U.S. remarks on territorial dispute with Japan

CNN's Barbara Starr, Greg Botelho, Madison Park, Steven Jiang, David McKenzie, Junko Ogura and Kevin Wang contributed to this report.
Chinese flies fighter jets into disputed defense zone; Japan defiant - CNN.com

 

[Malik Alashter]

Avoid it? Heck recently Japan and Korea just sent aircraft there. Its like nothing happened.

Sir. It takes time this China thou it's not a small country trust me tomorrow they will consider the reality of it being a Chinese Territory or it's something will bother China if being ignored it will take time no doubt.

 

[JSCh]

Wikipedia - Air Defense Identification Zone(North_America)#United States

This is what U.S. law say,

The United States formally defines an ADIZ in the Code of Federal Regulations: 14 CFR Part 99.[1] Furthermore 14 CFR Part 99.49 states "All airspace of the United States is designated as Defense Area", in which by definition the control of aircraft is required for reasons of national security. Therefore the ADIZ forms a transition zone in which aircraft come under positive identification and control by air traffic and defense authorities. 14 C.F.R. 99.11a states "No person may operate an aircraft into, within, or from a departure point within an ADIZ, unless the person files, activates, and closes a flight plan with the appropriate aeronautical facility, or is otherwise authorized by air traffic control", which appears to claim authority over all aircraft in the external U.S. ADIZ regardless of destination.

This is what actually get done,

However, the U.S. Navy's Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations states the ADIZ applies only to commercial aircraft intending to enter U.S. sovereign airspace, with a basis in international law of "the right of a nation to establish reasonable conditions of entry into its territory".[4] The manual specifically instructs U.S. military aircraft to ignore the ADIZ of other states when operating in coastal areas:

The United States does not recognize the right of a coastal nation to apply its ADIZ procedures to foreign aircraft not intending to enter national airspace nor does the United States apply its ADIZ procedures to foreign aircraft not intending to enter U.S. airspace. Accordingly, U.S. military aircraft not intending to enter national airspace should not identify themselves or otherwise comply with ADIZ procedures established by other nations, unless the United States has specifically agreed to do so.

A U.S. Air Force university dissertation states:

These regulations do not pertain to military aircraft, but to enter US airspace, without inducing the scrambling of fighter interceptors, these rules must be complied with and followed. The US does not claim sovereignty over these zones per se, but does closely monitor and request information of all objects entering the zone.[5]

In 2008 United States Northern Command commander Victor E. Renuart, Jr. said that although "we never let an unidentified aircraft come into our airspace" in a "post-9/11 world" and "determine who they are and what they’re doing," "if it is a Russian aircraft on a training mission, we allow them to continue to do their job."[6]​

 

[JSCh]

US law say that all aircraft regardless of destination has to filed a flight plan.

By the same logic of some poster here, can i say this?

When Soviet/Russian Bomber/warplane come calling into US ADIZ, the US pissed their pant and has to modify their law into regulation in a handbook!!

 

[Rainmaker]

US law say that all aircraft regardless of destination has to filed a flight plan.

By the same logic of some poster here, can i say this?

When Soviet/Russian Bomber/warplane come calling into US ADIZ, the US pissed their pant and has to modify their law into regulation in a handbook!!

What is the Chinese ADIZ?

An Air Defence Identification Zone is like a WARNING ZONE, not a no-fly-zone or an extension of Chinese airspace. An ADIZ is still international airspace.

Around 20 countries have their own ADIZ but not every ADIZ has the same rules.

An ADIZ acts as a THREAT ASSESSMENT to the Chinese mainland.

If an aircraft enters the ADIZ and identifies itself, then China knows what it's doing and that it poses no direct threat to the Chinese mainland.

If an aircraft enters the ADIZ and don't identify itself, then there are few scenarios that determines whether China should deploy its fighters to intercept the aircraft.

If an aircraft don't identify itself but merely skirt around the outer edge of the ADIZ like what the B-52 bombers did, China has no reason to deploy its fighters as those B-52 bombers poses no direct threat to the Chinese mainland.

But, if the B-52 bombers don't identify itself AND keeps COMING TOWARDS the Chinese mainland, then China will do a threat assessment of the aircraft and deploy its fighters to intercept the B-52 bombers.

Understand that China will only deploy its fighters based on the threat an aircraft poses to the Chinese mainland. If the aircraft identifies itself, China knows what the aircraft is doing and that it poses no direct threat. It is only when an aircraft don't identify itself AND keeps coming towards the Chinese mainland, then China has to assess the level of threat the aircraft poses to the Chinese mainland, if the threat is determined to be high, then China will deploy its fighters to intercept the unidentified aircraft as it poses a direct threat to the Chinese mainland.

This is essentially what the Chinese ADIZ is all about.

 

[KRAIT]

Power show off. Nothing going to happen.

 

[gambit]

I have respond to you about this on another thread.

I have repeatably mentioned to you many time that our government already made statement that "routine flights do not need to report to our air control center" and that "our ADIZ will not affect flight from normal procedure" and that we mentioned the US and Japan's ADIZ standard procedure to reflect our implementation of our ADIZ. The last sentence is important. This means we expect all countries that have flights toward our national airspace to follow the rule and flights that do not head toward our national airspace will be monitored but no action will be taken unless we considered its a threat.

It is your interpretation that we required all flights to filed flight plan. Nowhere in our announcement that we mentioned it's a requirement that all flights shall report to us regardless of their intention or non-intention of heading toward our national airspace,and we omit specific detail. Detail can be asked through question and answer from media section. Any more concern?

You mean like this...???

Air Defense Identification Zone (East China Sea) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Identification Rules

According to the Chinese Ministry of National Defense, foreign aircraft in the zone will be expected to abide by the following:

- Identification of flight plan. Any aircraft in the zone must report its flight plan to China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs or Civil Aviation Administration.

- Radio identification. Aircraft in the zone must maintain two-way radio communication and respond in a timely and accurate manner to inquiries

- Responder identification. Any with a Air Traffic Control Radar Beacon System transponder must keep it on during the aircraft's time in the zone

- Sign identification. Any aircraft in the zone must display insignia indicating its nationality and registration clearly, in accordance with international treaties

-Aircraft in the zone should follow instructions. The Chinese military will adopt "emergency defensive measures" in response to aircraft that refuse to follow the instructions.

China announced that the rules were in effect from 10 am on 23 November 2013 Beijing time.

On November 26 the state-controlled People's Daily said that while "freedom of flight" would be respected for "normal" flights, the principle would not apply to "provocative flyover and surveillance activities."

Looks pretty clear to me: No mention of intent as condition for rule exception.

No mention of intent mean that the rules are applicable to ALL situations and intentions.

You do not like wiki? Fine, then how about from the Chinese government itself...

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/Press/2013-11/23/content_4476143.htm

There is no mention of any possible intention of entering national airspace or not. That mean regardless of intention, ALL aircrafts must have filed flight plans and obey orders while in the ADIZ.

Do you have even the rudimentary knowledge of law? In law and rule making, the absence of something usually mean that <something> is allowed, or reserved, or defaulted, unless expressedly state otherwise. So for item one..

Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the P.R.C.

1. Flight plan identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone should report the flight plans to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China or the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

There is no mention of exclusions as in footnoted or appendices regarding intention of the intruding aircraft. Rule one simply stated: 'Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone...' Nothing about him wanting to enter Chinese national airspace of just simply passing thru the neighborhood.

How much clearer do you need? Do you think we are amateurs at this? What we have for our ADIZ have been known, rules and exceptions, for decades by friends and foes. We do not hold annual quizzes about them. So when China published those rules, you think the professionals are stupid? Never mind that. It was a rhetorical question. We, on this forum, know for long enough that the Chinese members have nothing but contempt for experience anyway.

This is freaking embarrassing. The Chinese members are making arguments contrary to what their government said and it took an American to find the factual document.

Sheeeeessshhhh...