China says no to Pakistan link

[gpit]

Hmmmm....

At least now Pakistan should realize China is all about business, just like US. They dropped the plan just to save a little money and their are members here who expect china to nuke India and wipe us off the world map.

Its just China vs USA in the world now. These two expansionists. They both are using any country that they can extract the max out of, and then they'll abandon them. They are here for their profits, and domination not ours.

Don’t implicitly dress up India as a holy cow.

If India is not business-like, why can’t just accept Russia price for the carrier but to beg Russia to lower the price and extract the max?

If India is not an expansionist, why buy carrier in the first place? At least China doesn't have a carrier.

This is a business world. Be sane.

 

[ameer219]

now i will tell you the truth.
During India Pak war in 1971 China was supposed to attack India (as per secret deal between US-China-Pakistan), but china refused
Did they do--------- NO
why??

Read my whole post again, cos I am not willing to derail this thread, and please understand that my point here is not to prove whether China has not supported us in 1971 or whatever, I totally don't care.


My point is here I want to prove is that this small link is not enough to prove that China and Pakistan's relations are not strained due to certain conditions. So please, read my post before replying

 

[gpit]

now i will tell you the truth.
During India Pak war in 1971 China was supposed to attack India (as per secret deal between US-China-Pakistan), but china refused
Did they do--------- NO
why??
They dint want to ruin their economy by fighting somebody else war

Links http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/51448-nixons-dislike-witch-indira.html

If you are literate, Mr. Chou only said: we will not sit still. US side interpreted this as China would resort to military force.

Moral and material support can also be "not sit still".

Instead, from many other resources, China was strongly suspecting being played into US plot: remember US was still occupying Taiwan of China at that time.

Secret deal? Stop being clownish.

 

[ameer219]

If you are literate, Mr. Chou only said: we will not sit still. US side interpreted this as China would resort to military force.

Moral and material support can also be "not sit still".

Instead, from many other resources, China was strongly suspecting being played into US plot: remember US was still occupying Taiwan of China at that time.

Secret deal? Stop being clownish.

Thanks a lot Gpit, but I guess we should stop derailing the thread and stick to the topic. Thanks for answering for me anyway!

 

[mjnaushad]

Significant oil discovery in rajasthan
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/51649-cairn-upgrades-reserve-estimates-rajasthan-oil-fields.html

And what the reason you are posting an Rajasthan oil discovery here. How is it related to the topic?

 

[Fighter488]

Sir Jagjinatt

I complete agree with you, no country is saint.

Even if your hypothetical is true, there is no doubt, till now,

1. China has always been there for us, supporting us economically and politically.

Thus they are considered as a true friend for us, even though there is a catch in their deals, both of us benefits in the end didn't it?

2. but till they day they leave us our and kicked us just like USA,

then you have proven me wrong. But till then, its just a speculation. However, whatever you have mention is not what I am aiming to prove

3. The Indians (sorry, but its true) posting on this forum believe that just because of this small link here, that China has already showed its true colours.

Honestly, they are a lot of reasons why China did that, and that's what I am aiming to proof,

And by using backup of what China has done to us, this deal about not linking from Pakistan to China is nothing for us.

1. Agreed. China has really helped Pakistan in tough times. Never an iota of doubt about this FACT.

The explanation of this case may have some emotional leaning, particularly in Pakistan. In India we think that the base point why China is always at a HELPING HAND' from pakistan is, because South Asian neighbours are never at ease with other since 1947 and China found Pakistan as a very convenient ally, to contain India stretegically, politically, geographically, economically and emotionally! This has always worked to Pakistan's advantage.

2. Dare to have a peaceful existence with India for, say, 10 years and see the true colors of TRUE FRIEND. Geopoltics of that era would give you some more HARD LESSONS. Believe me.

3. No dear. No Indian here is saying that China came out with its true colors. At the moment it is a 'realization effort' for Pakistan, from China. The effort to realize that TTP and other groups are big NO NO for China. The realization that Pakistan need to put more in to its efforts to cotain TTP, considering you are at a stone's through from Muslim majority Xinjiang province in China. A spill over would prove a disaster for China's plan. The message is this from China, none else.

Fighter

 

[Mallu]

If you are literate, Mr. Chou only said: we will not sit still. US side interpreted this as China would resort to military force.

Moral and material support can also be "not sit still".

Instead, from many other resources, China was strongly suspecting being played into US plot: remember US was still occupying Taiwan of China at that time.

Secret deal? Stop being clownish.

Being in US is not a qualification of literacy
Mr Henry Kissinger, the then national security adviser to President Nixon went on visit to China???
For What
Links The World: The U.S.: A Policy in Shambles - TIME

 

[ameer219]

2. Dare to have a peaceful existence with India for, say, 10 years and see the true colors of TRUE FRIEND. Geopoltics of that era would give you some more HARD LESSONS. Beleive me

Again is hypothetical, peaceful coexistence with India can only occur only if the core issues are solve, but again this will derail the topic

No dear. No Indian here is saying that China came out with its true colors. At the moment it is a 'realization effort' for Pakistan, from China. The effort to realize that TTP and other groups are big NO NO for China. The realization that Pakistan need to put more in to its efforts, considering you are at a stone's through from Muslim majority Xinjiang province in China. A spill over would prove a disaster for China's plan. The message is this from China, none else.

Don't call me DEAR!!, my mum calls me that!

Sir I have no objections on your opinion and speculation there, but if that's how you feel, then its fine with me, cos I have a slightly different opinion then yours


But if you look again at the other Indian posts, they are probably trying to mean a different way just because about the link. being broken

At least now Pakistan should realize China is all about business, just like US. They dropped the plan just to save a little money and their are members here who expect china to nuke India and wipe us off the world map.

By Jagnatjii

So sir, let's leave the discussion about China wanting to be a superpower aside, and discuss with me about the issue regarding what China said that has to do with her not treating Pakistan as a friend just because of a link, unless you agree with me of course

 

[Fighter488]

Again is hypothetical, peaceful coexistence with India can only occur only if the core issues are solve, but again this will derail the topic




Don't call me DEAR!!!:p, my mum calls me that!

Sir I have no objections on your opinion and speculation there, but if that's how you feel, then its fine with me, cos I have a slightly different opinion then yours


But if you look again at the other Indian posts, they are probably trying to mean a different way just because about the link. being broken



By Jagnatjii

So sir, let's leave the discussion about China wanting to be a superpower aside, and discuss with me about the issue regarding what China said that has to do with China not treating Pakistan as a friend

Oops

You are most welcome.

Fighter

 

[iforgotmypassword]

If China wanted to abandon Pakistan, it would have abandon like in the 80s or 90s, just like how USA neglected us.

China wants to contain India so proliferates its own weapons to Pakistan.

But China was there for us, they provided us F-7 planes and A-5 Nanchang planes too, when USA decided to impose sanctions on military planes.

Did you end up paying any dosh for it or did your all weather friend give it to you gratis? You could have got something better out of Europeans/Americans had you not been involved in "the bomb"

China also helped us in providing us with Nuclear expertise, and developing our very own nuclear reactors.

There you go.. the master proliferator..

China also helped and impart us knowledge in aircraft making as you can see "JF-17".
and have also helped us developed our own MBT, Al Khalid..

You are reduced to no more than a China proxy. I am not sure why the strategic planners of India did not think it fit to bandy up with Vietnam and Taiwan. May be sharing a missile for missile and bomb for bomb as between ChinoPak would have apprised China of our intent to take her on. After all in the name of national security anything goes.

we refer our relationship as higher than the mountains and deeper than the seas

precisely, there is room for a lot of hot air in between.

 

[iforgotmypassword]

we will not sit still

easing you bums to let out a fart can also be counted as not sit still. I am afraid despite everything, everyone's selfish interest comes first. That may not be a bad thing.

 

[RPK]

what is the trade volume between china & pakistan that shows the true friendship.

 

[ameer219]

China wants to contain India so proliferates its own weapons to Pakistan.

You are reduced to no more than a China proxy. I am not sure why the strategic planners of India did not think it fit to bandy up with Vietnam and Taiwan. May be sharing a missile for missile and bomb for bomb as between ChinoPak would have apprised China of our intent to take her on. After all in the name of national security anything goes.

precisely, there is room for a lot of hot air in between.

There you go.. the master proliferator..

Listen here carefully newbie, I am getting really frustrated repeating this over and over again, so listen good

I don't know how many times I must explain to you all that, the point is not whether China is using Pakistan or anything,. Read what I have to write in my later posts before you troll on whether we proliferate or not.

Whatever you have mentioned is your own point of view, not a proven fact yet. And I totally respect your point of view, I have no arguments yet, China can use Pakistan against India as much as it wants, as long it benefits Pakistan, and does not harm Pakistan in anyway possible. Get it?

And because they helped us so much, our ties get closer, just like India and Russia is am I right? So they are our closer ally, and of course, we are good friends, unless you are prepared to deny right?

The day I see China ditching Pakistan for important stuff, then I will believe your point of view than China is using Pakistan, but till then, I will still stick to my point of view

Now the point I want to get across your thick skull is that why do the other Indians like Jagnatjii believe that just because this link is cancelled, and decided to obtained energy directly from Iran, it means that China has showed its true colours and actually is just pure buisness.

But Here I am trying to prove from past history that China has always been on our side, and have supported us not militarily and politically only, but also economically. That's just my source, not my statement for you to counter, so please, do not bring it up, cos it will just derail the thread.

Argue on the one highlighted bold, which I am trying to prove, but if you going to bring up about my sources, then I will ignore

 

[ameer219]

whis the trade volume beat tween china & pakistan that shows the true friendship.

I checked for you the link, but I am unable to find you the current trade volume, but here is what I got from an article

As a result of the concerted efforts and determination to enhance economic cooperation, when President Musharraf visited Beijing in February 2006, the trade between the two countries had been registering a constant growth; from US$ 1.4 billion in 2001, to US$ 3 billion in 2004, US$ 4.25 in 2005, and the estimated trade volume in 2006 is at US$ 5 billion.6

Article

 

[ashisbutt]

I wasn't pointing to you. The people who believe so will automatically get it. But there are a few I have in mind though.



I am not denying that China is helping Pakistan. I am saying the same. But what I believe in is that India and Pakistan are being played with.

1. China wants to be the next super power and we all know it has the potential.

2. US doesn't want China to overthrow US as the next world leader.

3. It is here China and US try to prevent each other from gaining ground.

4. US is trying to isolate China. Selling arms to Taiwan, meeting Dalai Lama in spite of pressure from China, no defence deal with China, currency prob, etc etc.

5. US was supporting Pak fully till Pak got friendly with China and China became a possible superpower(90s). Similarly, it started supporting India after the same point in time even though it hated India and saw India as USSR's supporter.

6. Now US got friendly with India cause it knows that India-China relations aren't too rosy, and we are a threat big enough to each other. We got the nuke deal, so much defence equipment, lots of investment, so much all of a sudden. Today US is ready tp sell us the best equipment. We are being offered F35, F18, F16, P8i, C17, Radars, Artillery, Bombs, Vehicles, etc, all the latest equipment that it never shared with anyone else. Why?

7. US is trying to create a problem between India, Pak and China. US knows, any problem in this region will involve all three nations. And in case of a war, all three will be destroyed. So no more competition for US. Instead, they get to capture and plunder.

8. US has done that in the past and I expect something similar from them in the future. Today US is using Pak to fight in Afghanistan. Next it will use India to fight China. Sure it will give us the missiles, aircraft, carriers, tanks etc but it will also demand a price for it and it will be us losing our lives and moreover us to be blamed for the war, where US will be the saint in the eyes of the world.

9. China also is no saint. It needs Pakistan to become the superpower. Once China is at the top, it won't allow anyone else to get near just like US does now. China support you because you are our enemy. An enemy's enemy is a friend to them. China also got friendly only after 1962 war with India. Also it is in their interest to stop India, or else they'll have to share the region with another upcoming power.


Its all a game to be at the top. And we are the stepping stones. They'll step over us and leave us behind, marching themselves forward.

There is no brotherhood on the international stage. All that China does is at a price. Its not giving you anything for free. Same for India-Russia. Money is what talks. We all have our problems and we ourselves are our first priorities.

I serioulsy know all these points already but did not raise them since I'm lazy by nature. I ever know keyboard fingering. How did you type them dude

Jokes apart, more than people in this fourm realizing this, the GoP shuld.