China & Russia need to take action against America.

[illusion8]

Imminent? No. Imminent mean within the foreseeable future, as in the next Presidential administration.

That does not mean completely ruled out. In this sort of speculations, nothing is beyond possibility, but most are beyond probability.

Can you elaborate more on this?

 

[Tshering22]

We never take sides. Pakistanis are still to learn this despite it being rubber thousand times onto them. That's the reason why we are at peace with both Russia and US at the same time. By not taking sides, we project an independent view. For example, we neither recognize Kosovo that is recognized by USA and her NATO partners nor we are willing to comment on South Ossetia and Abkhazia that Russia and Serbians recognize. The underlying logic here is not to appease anyone but simply the fact that cessation of another nation's territory is simply not normal and unacceptable.

However, in Pakistan's case it always ends up taking 100% side of one new mentor from time to time. Initially things look good when new supplies and investments come into the country from mentor. However, later when differences of opinion come in and things get rough, they are left looking for a new mentor only to repeat the same thing over again.

Despite us ringing the bell a thousand times you're not able to get this concept; don't take sides.

That is foreign policy. Otherwise it is all puppeteering.

 

[NiceGuy]

the Maxco wanto join to US, but US refused, why?
the earth is a village now, australia sell most of their iron mine to china, mid east sell oil to everywhere. it doesn't matter who own the land, who can use the land via trading is most important.

NATO own Libya, and China lost all of investment there .

 

[anonymus]

pakistans nukes are reserved for india in reality, we wont touch a nato nation because pakistan will be a wasteland if it does, so a bit silly to go on about pak nukes.

the only deterrent is if pakistan threatens to nuke israel, not because pakistan wants to wipe israel off the map and sees israel as an eternal enemy, but because israel cannot sustain a nuke, therefore the US cannot risk israel getting nuked because israel is more important than anything.

this i am sure is why israel regards pakistan as an enemy and why the neo con zionist lobby want to remove pak nukes.

are you sure that pakistani missiles would get through israel's missile defense shield?

and even if they get through you are forgetting that israel has nukes and they are better and more numerous than pakistan. maximum yield of a pakistani nuke is 20kt while israel has thermonuclear bombs which can yield 5mt. and they have close to 250-300 nukes to pakistan's 120-170.
It is easier for israel to depopulate pakistan than vice versa.

Anyway i think that pakistan should try this option while we watch this movie while eating popcorn. but you should try this in summer or monsoon season when winds blow from india to pakistan than winters we dont want any radioactive dust.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

China couldn't handle Vietnam and got whipped by Japan..now what?

Isn't it even bigger shame for China to then defeat India?

 

[Obambam]

NATO own Libya, and China lost all of investment there .

Chinese investments in Libya crashing the EU and American economy. I think it is a good trade

Isn't it even bigger shame for China to then defeat India?

Good point.

 

[anonymus]

I have not suggested that china and or russia could beat america conventionally. But nuclear war would be suicide and even then in op i stated that i thought it likely america would win however the victory would be a pyrric victory cos america would face barren wasteland in america with a retaliation some nukes would get that through. The point which i was making which perhaps I didnt make as well as id like to have done was that betweeen 1990 to 2010 wwe have lived in more a less a unipolar world. I think things are changing now with the ascendency of china and a more confident and assertive russia. You will note that although America encouraged Georgia to get itself in the situation they did with Russia yet america for all their sweet words did not do much when push came to shove.

My point that I was trying to make is how much longer can or will china & russia just let americans do whatever they want; iraq?afghanistan?Libya? Iran next? Pakistan next. At this rate there may be a time that once america gets it european missile shield up and gets cocky with china and thinks they can steal resources at will that no one will be able to do anything.

Under normal circumstances may be good sense and pragmatism would prevail and a nuke WW3 averted however Americans europeans and white english speaking countries are financially bankrupt and their desparation shows.

Also I dont think the west are itching for a war where they will have large numbers of soldiers being killed. Their appetite for hardship death and hunger is less than other countries. As vietnam showed large scale casulties is something that america goes to great length to avoid.

Earlier someone mentioned Israel and I think its important to remember that a small group of disciplined jews in america controls american foreign policy and Israel could be something that countries that can not reach america need to look at as a serious target.

You thought processes suffers from a logical flaw.you assume that China and Russia would nuke America for pakistan which is not anywhere near to being a core issue(For russia it is not even a peripheral one) and suffer complete annhilation in bargain.It assumes that while russia and china are nuclear crazed lunatics who pull out nukes even in a knife-fight (a classical pakistani trait) america is an manifestation of buddha and would be happily nuked without reacting and their strategic planners are followers of gandhi who would turn other cheek by shutting down their missile defence.
Now for a moment assume that russia and china want to cut US down to size then on what issues are they going to pick up a fight? the answer cannot be more simpler and that is on core issues.It can be taiwan,tibet or even NATO's expansion into georgia.But on pakistan let's analyse the situation.

economic consideration: Pakistan is close to being of no values to both.

Strategic and military Pakistan is of no strategic or military value to value to Russia but it is of some strategic value to china for it nullifies the biggest military advantage that India has against china that is of blocking malacca,sunda and lombok strait making a war against India prohibitivly expensive.it does not make them immune to blockade by US as other posters have pointed out.

Now the question is that are Chinese and Russians moronic enough to do that. and don't forget that Us can damage both countries without firing even a single shot.It can simply recognise tibetan,uigher and taiwanese government as sovereign entities.
Also Us has an alternative supply route via georgia-azerbaijan- turkmenistan and/or georgia-azerbaijan-kazakastan-uzbekistan and/or georgia-azerbaijan-kazakastan-krygystan-tajikistan even if russia also blocks its supplies.

 

[anonymus]

Ever heard of the SCO?

probably you are are oblivious of the fact that Russia has observer status in NATO.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You thought processes suffers from a logical flaw.you assume that China and Russia would nuke America for pakistan which is not anywhere near to being a core issue(For russia it is not even a peripheral one) and suffer complete annhilation in bargain.It assumes that while russia and china are nuclear crazed lunatics who pull out nukes even in a knife-fight (a classical pakistani trait) america is an manifestation of buddha and would be happily nuked without reacting and their strategic planners are followers of gandhi who would turn other cheek by shutting down their missile defence.
Now for a moment assume that russia and china want to cut US down to size then on what issues are they going to pick up a fight? the answer cannot be more simpler and that is on core issues.It can be taiwan,tibet or even NATO's expansion into georgia.But on pakistan let's analyse the situation.

economic consideration: Pakistan is close to being of no values to both.

Strategic and military Pakistan is of no strategic or military value to value to Russia but it is of some strategic value to china for it nullifies the biggest military advantage that India has against china that is of blocking malacca,sunda and lombok strait making a war against India prohibitivly expensive.it does not make them immune to blockade by US as other posters have pointed out.

Now the question is that are Chinese and Russians moronic enough to do that. and don't forget that Us can damage both countries without firing even a single shot.It can simply recognise tibetan,uigher and taiwanese government as sovereign entities.
Also Us has an alternative supply route via georgia-azerbaijan- turkmenistan and/or georgia-azerbaijan-kazakastan-uzbekistan and/or georgia-azerbaijan-kazakastan-krygystan-tajikistan even if russia also blocks its supplies.

the US recognizing Tibet, Uighur and Taiwanese would only lead to us shipping more weapons to Oakland street thugs, Nation of Islam and Black Panthers, arming Cuba and Venezuela with nukes, and dumping US T-bonds at a time where there are very few buyers and everyone desperate to get out, if it wasn't for whoever getting out suffering a loss. But as soon as one person dumps, everyone else is forced to dump or lose even more money.

 

[gambit]

the US recognizing Tibet, Uighur and Taiwanese would only lead to us shipping more weapons to Oakland street thugs, Nation of Islam and Black Panthers, arming Cuba and Venezuela with nukes, and dumping US T-bonds at a time where there are very few buyers and everyone desperate to get out, if it wasn't for whoever getting out suffering a loss. But as soon as one person dumps, everyone else is forced to dump or lose even more money.

That is funny. But the reality is that China will do no such things.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

That is funny. But the reality is that China will do no such things.

If necessary, the Cuban Missile Crisis can be repeated, but we will not be the ones to back off.

 

[gambit]

If necessary, the Cuban Missile Crisis can be repeated, but we will not be the ones to back off.

Yes, you will. China does not have the capability to take US, conventional or otherwise.

 

[T-Rex]

Yes, you will. China does not have the capability to take US, conventional or otherwise.

It seems you love to gamble. This time you're playing the Russian roulette but the revolver has only one empty chamber. Warmongers like you don't know it.

 

[SinoChallenger]

It seems you love to gamble. This time you're playing the Russian roulette but the revolver has only one empty chamber. Warmongers like you don't know it.

And if they gamble wrong our anti-ship ballistic missiles will rip their aircraft carriers into two!

 

[Stormweaver]

the US recognizing Tibet, Uighur and Taiwanese would only lead to us shipping more weapons to Oakland street thugs, Nation of Islam and Black Panthers, arming Cuba and Venezuela with nukes, and dumping US T-bonds at a time where there are very few buyers and everyone desperate to get out, if it wasn't for whoever getting out suffering a loss. But as soon as one person dumps, everyone else is forced to dump or lose even more money.

Good One... And you think that the US will stay silent? Their Intelligence services won't detect such a huge flow of illegal arms? You think some scumbag in these gangs won't talk if it means reducing his/her prison time for any other charge?
Do you want to be a state sponsor of terror?


It is also US policy that if the US is attacked with WMDs it will respond with overwhelming force against the perpetrator and its proxies. The proxy here being Venezuela etc. controlled by China. Also, google Nuclear Forensics if you think that China can get away with this.

You probably know what happened the last time when a country tried to place nuclear forces in the US's backyard. If the Soviets can be made to back down... then anyone be made to do so.


Moreover, dumping the dollar/bonds will hurt China as much as a you will yourself wipe out the value of your own debt.

Do you think that an economically ravaged west will stand idle? You will see an economic war from the whole Euro Zone and the US that will be unprecedented in the annals of history. What the result will be, is a matter of debate though.



Lastly, the anti-ship ballistic missile.... not until one is tested, verified by experts and deployed. Until then, it is a fantasy...
The US too has a lot of such "Projects" underway through DARPA, like the hypersonic vehicle, the rail guns, UCAVs etc.