CHINA RUMORED TO SHARE STEALTH FIGHTER TECH WITH PAKISTAN

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

When you don't know things about Pakistan then don't open your mouth about them, UK is very willing to cooperate and they are also ready to work with Turkey if Pakistan become full partner in TFX which will allow their tech's access to Pakistan.



It is said that PAF was not interested in export version of Su-35 (which was offered). PAF wanted Russian version or highly customized version (like Su-30MKI/MKM) also China can now offer better version of J-10 as J-10A was rejected by PAF as it was on par with F-16 block-40 at that time and PAF wanted new platform to be better or on par with F-16 block-52.

The Su-35 on offer for export is basically the same as the one used by Russia's VKS.

According to a retired PAF officer's opinion, the issue with the Su-35 has to do with Russia not showing any sign of offering a custom version. In its current variant, the Su-35 is a highly integrated and effective system, but it is meant for Russia's VKS.

In other words, you have to use Russian AAM, AGMs and electronic subsystems. This is perfect for the VKS, but for the PAF, it would mean new maintenance channels across too many areas for it to be sustainable for just 30-40 fighters. He said you would need 55-75 fighters at least to make this exercise worthwhile.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The Su-35 on offer for export is basically the same as the one used by Russia's VKS.

According to a retired PAF officer's opinion, the issue with the Su-35 has to do with Russia not showing any sign of offering a custom version. In its current variant, the Su-35 is a highly integrated and effective system, but it is meant for Russia's VKS.

In other words, you have to use Russian AAM, AGMs and electronic subsystems. This is perfect for the VKS, but for the PAF, it would mean new maintenance channels across too many areas for it to be sustainable for just 30-40 fighters. He said you would need 55-75 fighters at least to make this exercise worthwhile.

If we are looking for 30-40 Fighters, how much you think we have to Pay to the Russian ? even if we get credit from Russia ?

 

[ashok321]

PAF has to retire 190 of its old aircrafts in 2020

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If we are looking for 30-40 Fighters, how much you think we have to Pay to the Russian ? even if we get credit from Russia ?

The Russians won't extend credit. Pakistan would have to do it layaway-style by buying in incremental batches with whatever cash it has on hand (like it did with the Mi-35Ms). With a unit cost of around $100 m per plane, it'd be like ordering 6~8 planes every 4-5 years.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The Russians won't extend credit. Pakistan would have to do it layaway-style by buying in incremental batches with whatever cash it has on hand (like it did with the Mi-35Ms). With a unit cost of around $100 m per plane, it'd be like ordering 6~8 planes every 4-5 years.

100 Million , will it fit the current PAF cut in the Defense Budget ? and quick question they HQ-16 SAM comes under Army or Air force Procurement list ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

100 Million , will it fit the current PAF cut in the Defense Budget ? and quick question they HQ-16 SAM comes under Army or Air force Procurement list ?

HQ-16 belongs to the Army. As for the Su-35 and the defence budget, they would need around $300-400 m a year for 10 years to undertake a complete project. I wouldn't bet on it today.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Strange thing is that i read some where on PDF that Rafale wont be touching Bharti land until late 2018 or mid 2019 .. and the timeline of buying J-10 or Su-35 is also before 2020's .. so if we connect the dots here or maybe i am wrong that PAF will most likely place a order of Su-35's in coming years , and as the Rafale start to join IAF PAF will get their Su35's as countering the Rafale threat , another interesting thing is the Chinese su35 procurement which was limited to just 24 Units , what i believe that Chinese Bought these su35 in limited numbers for 2 specific reasons , 1) to absorb some more Russian tech , 2) to Help PAF in future with Spare parts and Overhauling[/QUOTE]

Why would the PLAAF take into account the needs of PAF when procuring an aircraft? The first option may be correct but I don't agree with your second reason. No country in the world would ever base its defence procurement on the needs of another country regardless of its positive relations with the said country.

 

[Storm Force]

You have no chance of getting J20.
That's chinease top secret fighter for fighting USA navy in scs.

But in next ten years J31,will be available for export to many countries.

Thst is a real possibility for paf .

 

[UltimateDefender]

You have no idea about China the kind of production will they have and I can tell you J-31 chances are over for good and I am right a recent development just proved me dam right which I can't share here

Its a great news

 

[rcrmj]

Yes he clearly said that when PAF announced project AZM.

then he must by mistaken```no matter with Russian's fighter generation class or Western or China's fighter generation class, there is no 5.5, I dont know on what base he came-up with this "5.5" gen fighter``

@Zarvan what part of f-22 not for export, not even to israel but f-35 available to key allies dont u understand???, now apply that to China. Exceptional weapons like j-20 are a symbol of the indigineous excellence of a nation, excellence which is achieved by decades of hard work, countries that achieve such milestones dont want to part with that, not even for closest allies because they want their highest techs to be exclusively only for thier own consumption and understandibly so....we have learned a lot from evolution of jf-17 and decades of overhauling of mirages etc and handling of f 16's, time to go solo in the 5th gen program, u have to believe that we can achieve that. Let me put it this way, China wont export j 20 as a whole package but they can deliver some sensitove techs needed for a Pakistani 5th gen program to lift off. Didnt jf 17 teach us that having an inhouse platform is priceless as in control of all its features, we need inhouse platforms now that we have complete control over, even the closest allies cannot be relied upon when posh comes to shove. To me a relitively inferior 5th gen Pakistani platform is a million times more valuable than 200 exported j 20's.....

indeed!

BTW, we did incoporate few J-20 techs on JF-17, for example the new AESA radar````apart from the power output, lots of the key parameters are in the class of F-35's APG-81````when under FTT mode, its maximum range is arond 100-150KM (I cant give exact number, hope you guys can understand)``````

Chinese understand the threat faced by Pakistan from India and that is why J-20 (customized) or any other offer (as they have many projects available, just need partner) is possible.

UK , Italy, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, South Africa, South Korea, China and some other countries are ready to cooperate in defense field with Pakistan and with them developing a 5th gen bird or customized version of J-20 is possible.

firstly dont over estimate IAF, lousy maintenance + backward battle control and command system + least professional army (these are the real impression from foreign armies gave to the Indian army, after they had joint excercises, not offical exchanges of political flaterings)

secondly, 5th is the job for top aviation powers, currently only the U.S and China can do that job, Russia is still struggling with crucial sub-systems like optics, data-link, radar, stealth tech and weapon systems. so foreget about Mr.A/B/C's PPT drawings

thirdly, if J-20 is not for export, then where does the "customized" J-20 coming from? there is only a big opportunity of customized FC-31 only if Pakistan's economy can give it a good boost

 

[malikahmed91279]

View attachment 439308

End of story

Well, su-35 is for medium term,
And if Pakistan go with su-35,Pakistan will also aquire Chinese su-35,

 

[seesonic]

Forget TFX KFX or other nations with no proven aviation expertise.

The J31 is the best option for PAF and other nations.

The chinese has prove itself to be a reliable partner and they can provide with entire package and aftersales service.

 

[Basel]

The Su-35 on offer for export is basically the same as the one used by Russia's VKS.

According to a retired PAF officer's opinion, the issue with the Su-35 has to do with Russia not showing any sign of offering a custom version. In its current variant, the Su-35 is a highly integrated and effective system, but it is meant for Russia's VKS.

In other words, you have to use Russian AAM, AGMs and electronic subsystems. This is perfect for the VKS, but for the PAF, it would mean new maintenance channels across too many areas for it to be sustainable for just 30-40 fighters. He said you would need 55-75 fighters at least to make this exercise worthwhile.

Export version has downgraded avionics compared to Russian ones, both are not same.

then he must by mistaken```no matter with Russian's fighter generation class or Western or China's fighter generation class, there is no 5.5, I dont know on what base he came-up with this "5.5" gen fighter``


indeed!

BTW, we did incoporate few J-20 techs on JF-17, for example the new AESA radar````apart from the power output, lots of the key parameters are in the class of F-35's APG-81````when under FTT mode, its maximum range is arond 100-150KM (I cant give exact number, hope you guys can understand)``````


firstly dont over estimate IAF, lousy maintenance + backward battle control and command system + least professional army (these are the real impression from foreign armies gave to the Indian army, after they had joint excercises, not offical exchanges of political flaterings)

secondly, 5th is the job for top aviation powers, currently only the U.S and China can do that job, Russia is still struggling with crucial sub-systems like optics, data-link, radar, stealth tech and weapon systems. so foreget about Mr.A/B/C's PPT drawings

thirdly, if J-20 is not for export, then where does the "customized" J-20 coming from? there is only a big opportunity of customized FC-31 only if Pakistan's economy can give it a good boost

5th gen was made in 1997 and in 2025 5.5 gen will be appropriate to have and tech is available in world to built one, soon F-22s will be upgraded to 5.5 gen standard as they are nearly 20 year old tech now.

US is also looking into 6th gen bird for future so 5.5 gen is not that far away.

 

[Deino]

Yes he clearly said that when PAF announced project AZM.

Project AZM ??? Care to explain?

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Project AZM ??? Care to explain?

My dear Teacherman,

AZM is their national project to build a 5th generation fighter at PAC. As you might know the Paks are building an aviation city as well...

So a lot of stuff going on at PAC from UACVs to the 5th generation.... All appears to be in the early stages of development... practically more so for the 5th Gen AZM...than the UACVs... which seem to be at more advanced stages of development.

AZM seems to be an abreviation or perhaps its the name in lingua franca.. you need to ask the residents for details.

I guess you need to keep an eye on these developments... good for one of your famous articles!

Would be interesting to see which route PAC/PAF goes...

Enjoy your evening!

Mangus