China red-flags India’s entry into NSG, may push for Pakistan

[AgentOrange]

Our safety is any way better than the so called self proclaimed superpower

Self proclaimed superpower? You mean India? Check my signature to refresh your memory.

 

[NaMaloom]

I was actually saying that if you don't raise your profile and neither follow the wave then you are bound to be in a situation where you would always need a big brother...it used to be USA for Pakistan and now you are moving towards China...

So you're implying that India never needed a 'big brother', wonder what the Soviet Union & later Russia were to India which is now moving towards the United States because it needs to curry with Uncle Sam for its NSG, UNSC and other bids.

It is true that Pakistan geo-political status is actually very bad(at this stage)...It is quiet logical as well...Double games pay you only to a level...and it is a myth that you are in Chinese camp....Like any other country you are trying to balance relations b/w West and China however given Pakistan internal turmoil and all the terror related bad news flowing on every day basis it is anyone's guess...Please note whatever leverage you have regarding west is related to America's safe exit from Afghanistan...no?? I will not derail the argument with telling you what all have India pulled off, so let's leave it there...

It isn't 'double games' when Pakistan is only playing the game which furthers its own interests just like every other country does. If it leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth or Uncle Sam's, well then too bad. Pakistani armed forces have done to the TTP what America with all its USAF allies in Afghanistan couldn't accomplish in 14 long years.

If you think its a 'myth' that Pakistan is in the Chinese camp or that Pakistan is 'balancing relations b/w West and China' (errr this isn't 1970s anymore) then you are entitled to your 'mythical' perceptive concoctions. Its just so happens that it has no connection to reality where Pakistan is squarely in the Chinese camp indeed.

As for leverage regarding the west being related to America's safe exit from Afghanistan; it isn't really an 'exit' when you leave behind nearly 11k troops until 2017, even then some troops will remain as the 'coalition consolidates around Kabul'. What the Americans and everyone else figured out long ago which you and much of India hasn't is that Afghanistan cannot function without Pakistan's green light. Plain and simple.

This means you are not reading my messages properly...South China issue is not a new phenomenon...it was same even during UPA II(2009-2014) however India-US relations were going down the drain...think about it, why?? Answer is simple...Indian growth story was a downhill phenomenon then...Also please note..it is always about National interests...it is true for India-Russia, India-US, China-Pakistan and everyone else...there is no such thing called "free lunch"...

By South China sea issues I meant Sino-Japanese escalation after Japan purchased the Senkakus from its private owner. THAT was a game changer and pretty recent after which Chinese gloves came off and the Americans decided they want to 'pivot' towards Asia.

Look, no body is claiming an overnight entry anyways...We did get a waiver from the same group for our civilian nuclear deals, right? Pakistan was asking for same then....All weather Friendship with China was there and South China sea was an issue even then...In short dynamics of geo-politics was pretty much same...so can you please enlighten me if this was not due to geo-political status that India got the deal but Pakistan is still asking for it then what could be a possible explanation??

The only reason India got the waiver from the NSG was intense lobbying and arm twisting by the United States even after which China abstained in the final vote, it didn't vote FOR India. This was in 2008, the same year the 123 agreement was inked between India and the U.S. However, you forget that the agreement was announced in 2005 by Bush Jr, a year after Pakistan had been granted MNNA status by the same guy in 2004.

You also forget that Pakistan itself reduced its diplomatic moves to rhetorical drum beating about getting India-like NSG waiver too given the geo-politics of the Afghan war where a resurgent Taliban next door left Pakistan on diplomatic back foot being accused of double-dealing etc and also because China communicated to Pakistan 'screw the NSG, we will give you nuclear tech anyways if the United States wants to play hard ball, thats what they will get'.

And a result of Pakistan's all-weather friendship with China were the two new Chashma nuclear power plants, regarding which India, U.S and some others whined about for a while but when they realized it wasn't going to change anything; it fizzled out in to the background. This is directly related to China's abstinence from the vote granting India the waiver. Since then the NSG and everyone else has looked the other way as China has moved forward to contruct new nuclear power plants in Pakistan, Chashma-III and Chashma-IV. And there ain't a damn thing anyone can do to stop that.

P.S. Not to mention the two more 1000MW nuclear power plants to be built along Karachi's coast. Or the 3-more plants being under negotiations under the current government to be built in Muzzafargarh, Punjab. If this new deal goes through, that means FIVE plants on top of Chashma III and IV.

 

[AgentOrange]

lol if China is so super duper powerful than why North korea isn't a member of NSG

That makes zero sense. North Korea is a pain in the butt for everyone, especially China. Why would China advocate for North Korea joining the NSG when North Korea itself never wanted to do so? If anything, India, a superpower by 2012 and where Mumbai is better than Shanghai according to its past presidents/prime ministers, should force its way to the NSG without any support from other people because its so powerful. Jai Hind!

IMHO China is just talking about Pakistan's equal rights to get into NSG as a way of stone-walling India getting what is now essentially a status just for the 'namesake' We have succeeded in getting commercial agreement with the leading country in nuclear tech. We have supply agreements with a country with the largest reserves. I don't know what else will getting a NSG membership offers us.

India's clout at all levels is growing. China may keep on trying to be a hindrance, but eventually there is nothing which makes China a special country. We will catch upto it as is clearly indicated by us overtaking their growth rates next year. And once we are one of the three largest economies in the world, if these forums have to remain meaningful they will have to be open to accepting us.

LMAO. India would have to grow at double digits and China would have to completely stop growing for decades for India to catch China. *If* India surpasses Chinese growth rates next year (and Indians have been bragging about this for years with nothing to show for it), at current projections, it will take over half a century before India catches China.

Meanwhile, in reality, China adds over a trillion dollars to its economy every year. So basically, China adds an entire India to its economy every 2 years. Let that sink in and realize how hopelessly behind you are.

I am not racist. I live in a country of more than one ethnicity ... plus we grow up in an environment of bonhomie and cultural mixture. Never on Earth will you ever hear about an Indian being racist to Chinese. That said, China is not one race either.

India is one of the most racist countries on earth. And people there are regularly murdered for looking Chinese even though they and their families have lived in India for generations. Stop lying about your non-existent "culture of brotherhood and tolerance" because a quick google search reveals the truth. India should be ashamed.

Edit: I'm actually impressed by how tolerant Pakistan is compared to India. Indians would do well to learn some basic human decency from their neighbor.

Map shows world's most racist countries (and the answers may surprise you) | Daily Mail Online

"Jordan and India named the world's least tolerant countries"


'Are you from China?' College student, 20, killed by racist thugs in New Delhi | South China Morning Post

 

[NaMaloom]

Not to mention that the Indian racist term for Asian-looking Indians is 'kanchi'.. I hang out with enough Indians to know what goes on back home in India for them.

 

[axisofevil]

Stay on topic....China red flaging India's entry into NSG will not help its relations with India. Trust me. You Pakistani's need to read better. Yapping about racism and a lot of other BS has nothing to do with the topic

Not to mention that the Indian racist term for Asian-looking Indians is 'kanchi'.. I hang out with enough Indians to know what goes on back home in India for them.

Yea right. No Indian in their right mind would hang out with Pakistani's.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

Well you might be an atheist, but you are also a hypocrite, for you hail from a country, where your leaders who murdered millions of your people also happen to be your most respected leaders till date, and then you have the audacity to call Modi a mass murderer.

My problem with @Chinese-Dragon is not because he calls Modi a mass-murderer but he seems to have trouble understanding the meaning of Exoneration of Modi by the highest court of the land of all charges! Often times, he, like his other compatriots, lets his blind-hatred for anything Indian, cloud his judgement.

You don't get a better Court of Justice than "Supreme Court of India" to judge if Modi was guilty of murders or not!

Also considering that his political rivals (and Islamists who were in bed with the government) were running the office (and had control of all the Central Investigating agencies at their disposal) for 10 full years, couldn't find a shred of evidence against him -- given their motivation to frame him if they could.

No doubt these organizations (NSG and UNSC) will ALL become more "respectable" after allowing Modi to the high table.

Where exactly did he say that? Or you just pulled it out of somewhere?

He is accurate -- UNSC today comprises of outdated powers or VETO-wielding bullies who are more interested settling scores with each other than use their powers responsibly. No wonder we are in a mess!

None of the nations in the P5 can claim any sort of moral high ground, and certainly not India (the only one who's current leader is an actual mass murderer).

An actual mass murderer? Not even 'alleged'? You must have a solid basis to assert that Modi a mass-murderer, don't you? Let's hear about it then!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

He is accurate -- UNSC today comprises of outdated powers or VETO-wielding bullies who are more interested settling scores with each other than use their powers responsibly. No wonder we are in a mess!

You blame the UNSC P5 for India being in a mess?

And you think the leaders of the P5 are bullies, but Modi is not?

Sounds like the P5 are monsters, and India is a perfect saint, right?

 

[kadamba-warrior]

You blame the UNSC P5 for India being in a mess?

And you think the leaders of the P5 are bullies, but Modi is not?

Sounds like the P5 are monsters, and India is a perfect saint, right?

First of all, I respectfully have to ask you to stop making frivolous statements if you want to be taken seriously again! I am sure you are intelligent enough to understand who I was referring to with 'we' -- unless you consider you and your compatriots not part of the rest of 'us'.

And no, India is not in a mess! Not so much as Syria or Iraq where the P5 failed miserably to act in unison against Islamists' violence against women and children and all sorts of minorities. Veto power is not just about bragging rights.

How would we know if Modi is a bully or not? He is not the one wielding Veto. So hold your judgement till then.

 

[SrNair]

Self proclaimed superpower? You mean India? Check my signature to refresh your memory.

We dont have a plan for so called peaceful rise by threatening our neighbours.

Wait WHAAAT? You didn't ask for relations with the Americans.. they came to you? Whoa! There must be something really amazing you must be smoking because it was all over the world media when Modi went to America he invited Obama to come. Let me reiterate.. WHO invited WHOM? MODI INVITED OBAMA. So I suppose now you should eat your words 'Americans came for relation with us, we didn't ask for them' because I smell horsesh*t.

Only nation that can create problems for you isn't Japan, its China. Do you even know the meaning of the word 'isolate'? Isolate is when Putin's mad Russia gets isolated for invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea and gets sanctioned for it. Nothing like that will happen to China when it vetoes India's NSG membership wet dreams just like India's UNSC permanent seat wet dreams.




Just because you believe India deserves a seat at the NSG table does not mean others think the same or that it will even if deserved. The world doesn't revolve around India; the world has a lot to lose/risk by admitting India in to NSG that is precisely why the NSG camp is divided as recently as the Buenos Aires NSG meeting in June 2014.

Use your brain dude.
I was talking about a situation prevailed in India around one decade vago just after 98 test.
And US sanctioned us.But they realized that it is not gonna affect us.
Then they came here in the name of nuke deal .We didnt ask for it.They came here and we agreed with certain conditiin.
Your nation asked for it and entire world knows your nation sembarrassing face palm movements just after they rejected it.
US took one decade of talks for come with an equal terms with us.Now we have a good relation and our PM invite Obama.

Russia calling, should I pickup?
keeping Israel on hold for now

But we have a R&D base better than Russia in Thorium cycle.Like some other nation that stolen tech from Amsterdam and kit from China.
We didnt have such luxury.Except reactor Russians didnt give us any tech..

 

[Menace2Society]

Indians (residing in India) are the most racist, prejudiced people on this planet. Give them a few drinks watch them turn into little foul mouthed monsters. Their caste system is a perfect example of this. Obviously there are some good people but unfortunately in the minority. @Chinese-Dragon my girlfriend is from Hong Kong and she definitely agrees also.

 

[Raphael]

Yea right. No Indian in their right mind would hang out with Pakistani's.

Seriously? How conceited and fanatical to let geopolitical rivalries affect interpersonal relations in one's day-to-day life.

IRL, I have Japanese, Indian, Vietnamese, Filipino and American friends and acquaintances. I think it's bizarre to let the distant political interests of the country you happen to belong to affect and dictate your lifestyle.

 

[Menace2Society]

Seriously? How conceited and fanatical to let geopolitical rivalries affect interpersonal relations in one's day-to-day life.

IRL, I have Japanese, Indian, Vietnamese, Filipino and American friends and acquaintances. I think it's bizarre to let the distant political interests of the country you happen to belong to affect and dictate your lifestyle.

I have many Indians friends and a few are very close to me. I don't understand how people can think like this. Real life contact with people is completely different from internet trollfests.

 

[opruh]

India must be stopped from being delusional thinking that they are one of the big boys, when in reality they are such a non-factor.

 

[Raphael]

I have many Indians friends and a few are very close to me. I don't understand how people can think like this. Real life contact with people is completely different from internet trollfests.

Yep. Frankly, I wouldn't want to meet people whose grip on reality is so tenuous that they can't distinguish between the internet and real life. They are evidently not stable.

 

[axisofevil]

Indians (residing in India) are the most racist, prejudiced people on this planet. Give them a few drinks watch them turn into little foul mouthed monsters. Their caste system is a perfect example of this. Obviously there are some good people but unfortunately in the minority. @Chinese-Dragon my girlfriend is from Hong Kong and she definitely agrees also.

Yea right you dont any Indians and your imaginary girlfriend was brainwashed by your hate.

Really, have you seen the Indian superpower video. They have lots of white servants. However, they need a white character to affirm their superiority over white people.

In reality, we know that Indians are white wannabes and they look down at East Asians and Africans. Even though there are more poverty in Indian as compare to Africa.

What does poverty have to do with looking down?