China rapidly narrows technology gap with S. Korea

[Indos]

Are you retarded?

China builds its own WS-10A turbofan jet engine.

South Korea licenses an American jet engine.

You're going to claim South Korea is on par with China in jet engine technology?

At any time, the United States can halt the supply of engine blades and other parts. South Korea will be unable to produce a single jet engine. South Korea can produce jet engines only if it obeys U.S. directives.

That's the point of building your own jet engines. A technology licensee serves at the pleasure of its master. When the master is displeased, sanctions bring the licensee's military technological level down to zero.

I've never heard of such a stupid idea that a licensee is equivalent to being the originator of the technology (e.g. I'm talking about you "Indos"). A licensee is in no better position than buying the entire jet engine.

A licensee merely assembles the parts. The licensee has no clue how to independently replicate the technology.

Hei calm down, I do agree that China is ahead of South Korea in aircraft engine design. I just respond to that Iraqi man to show South Korea capabilities on this sector.

 

[Martian2]

Hei calm down, I do agree that China is ahead of South Korea in aircraft engine design. I just respond to that Iraqi man to show South Korea capabilities on this sector.

Come on. You know better than that.

A licensee is using someone else's technology.

In this thread, we're comparing the technological level of South Korea and China.

An idiot (Antonius) made the extraordinary claim that South Korea is ahead in technology. It is an absurd proposition. Much of South Korea's technology is licensed from the United States.

If people want to say that US technology is ahead of China, I don't have a problem with that.

When people make the silly claim that South Korea is ahead of China in technology, that's going to really annoy me.

 

[flist3773]

@Martian2 @cirr @Chinese-Dragon @j20blackdragon

This is becoming more and more absurd when people in this forum compare South Korea to China, which is technologically, scientifically, economically, militarily, geopolitically not comparable. If you are making a ridiculous claim that South Korea using American technology is superior to China, then I have a bad news for those idiots. Google "Your Next TV May Come from New Jersey." This is a report from Bloomberg and it actually says that Samsung and LG are licensing OLED technology from UDC. Sorry to disappoint you for proving that Samsung and LG are nothing more than giant assembly for American corporations. Martian2, maybe if you have time, you can post that report to filter trolls.

If people say China is behind the US, Germany and Japan, then I would agree. But South Korea? No. In fact, the "Made in China 2025" clearly indicates that China AT THIS MOMENT is in the third tier of manufacturing powerhouse along South Korea, United Kingdom and France (whereas both Japan and Germany are the second tier, and the US is the first tier nation), and China intends to eclipse both Japan and Germany by 2025 and the US by 2050.

Disclaimer: I actually can understand Korean (in fact, Korean is my first language and I've lived there when I was young) and lots of media reports from South Korea make ridiculous comments about its manufacturing capacity. For instance, recently the media state that South Korea is the leading nation in semiconductor industry. Obviously people who have knowledge in semiconductor industry realize that that comment is bullshit. But, interestingly enough, their English reports tend to be less nationalistic than the original reports.

Please don't cite Wikipedia to prove your claim. Regarding KFX, there are few experts in South Korea (whom by the way, unless you know Korean will have no idea who they are) who warned the government years ago about this whole fiasco (i.e. ToT) and the upcoming crisis regarding KFX, but their voices and opinions are not seen in English version of Korean newspaper. Of course, foreigner (i.e. Indonesian) would not know how disastrous KFX program is at this moment, but that is another story.

If I have time and if Chinese members here would like to know where and how disastrous KFX program is, I may translate (i.e not using Google Translator) those reports. But at this moment, I don't have time.

 

[Beidou2020]

I've noticed that South Koreans tend to be very anti-China. They think they are so advanced and can look down on China.

Westernised South Koreans are the worst, they are passionately anti-China.

 

[zeronet]

You should search T 50 Golden Eagle, KFX Program

KAI KF-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And for Engine, South Korea is also quite good, beside has many high tech company, they also have USA in its side.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F404 (built under license by Samsung Techwin[17]) afterburningturbofan

• Dry thrust: 53.07 kN (11,925 lbf)

• Thrust with afterburner: 78.7 kN (17,700 lbf)

KAI T-50 Golden Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


KFX Cockpit made by Samsung

AESA Development

Please don't include licensed production on jet engine, such as F404 or whatever. China will also be on licensed production of GE/CFM's Leap-X1C for C919, which will also be the engine of Boeing 737 Max. Technology wise it is much more advanced than 30 yrs+ old GE F404. But I don't think China will include this licensed production as anything to prove the capability. China is developing an alternative engine to Leap-X1C, named CJ1000A, targeting for certification between 2022-2025. If this CJ1000A can be successful as planned, then that's something to claim the credit.

 

[xunzi]

Largest is not always a measurement of cutting edge technology. How about quality? Accuracy? Efficiency? Meeting stringent Standards?

For example:

The accurate response of the control system will maximize the performance.

DX35Z : Doosan Infracore Construction Equipment

Another example:

On September 24, 2014 we successfully unveiled our newest and most advanced range of forklifts powered by our revolutionary new G2 engines at an excellent event at Millbrook Proving Ground in Bedfordshire.
Doosan’s G2 launch event sets a new standard « Doosan Forklifts


Doosan Industrial Vehicle UK launches new environmentally-friendly, cost-effective forklifts using its revolutionary new G2 engine

“The Doosan G2 engine represents a watershed moment in forklift diesel engine design,” concludes Tim Waples. “It is a genuinely innovative approach to the challenge of maintaining performance while meeting exacting emissions standards, and will become the benchmark engine against which all others in the market are measured.”
Using Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) exhaust treatment technology along with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system, and on sale from October, the new range of ‘DPF free’ engines is available in 2.4-litre and 3.4-litre versions

Doosan Industrial Vehicle UK launches new environmentally-friendly, cost-effective forklifts using its revolutionary new G2 engine « Doosan Forklifts

You can't compare a super heavy machine to a forklifts man. That is disrespectful. LOL

 

[antonius123]

You're wrong.

China has its own gasoline engines (see lengthy BYD Ti+DCT citation below from year 2011).

China has its own hybrid engines (see BYD F3 DM hybrid engine picture below).

China also has its own electric vehicle engines (see BYD E6 electric car engine picture below).

Car engines are mature middle-technology. They are well-understood and pretty much similar across car companies.
----------

BYD Premiers Ti+DCT on G6 Midsize: Auto Shanghai in Pictures | ChinaAutoWeb

You are so ignorant and cherry picking.

China is excel in some technology (electric car maybe), but overall she is not ahead Korea yet in automotive. Everybody can acknowledge that Hyundai car's quality is still better than Chinese average car yet. Of course the gap is not much and I believe China can close this gap in shortcoming.

Samsung has been licensing IBM semiconductor production technology for over 10 years.

It is ludicrous for anyone to claim that South Korea is ahead of anybody in semiconductor technology. South Korea is a mere licensee. Samsung has been buying IBM's semiconductor production technology for over 10 years.

There are only three companies in the world that produces cutting-edge semiconductor production technology for sophisticated logic chips. They are:

1. Intel (American)
2. TSMC (Taiwanese)
3. IBM (American)

TSMC has already announced it is moving to 10nm in 2016 and 7nm in 2017. TSMC has terrific yields that Samsung can't match. Hence, TSMC has 60% of the worldwide market for semiconductor foundries.

Reference: TSMC Promises 10nm Production In 2016, 7nm In 2017

Source (IBM's March 2004 news release): IBM News room - 2004-03-05 Samsung Electronics Joins IBM, Chartered, Infineon in Next-Generation Semiconductor Logic Process Development - United States

----------

Korea has no advantage in display technology

Just like cars, flat panel display technology was high-tech when it was first invented in 1964. Over the years, flat panel displays became common place and it's considered mid-tech.

Flat panel displays are commodities. The cost of an LCD flat panel display is only a couple of hundred bucks. The high-end is 4K LCD display, which China sells plenty of units.

The Koreans are focused on OLEDs. China's TCL has already shown Quantum Dot TVs at CES. The Koreans have no advantage in the potential evolution of the flat panel display industry.
----------

Only the United States and China build glass-cockpit displays

An example of high-tech display technology is advanced glass-cockpit displays. Only the United States and China have built them.

You can't ignore Korea achievement in OLED technology just to satisfy your blind nationalistic.

OLED is already in the market. Skyworth and some other Chinese TV maker already release OLED TV using LG's OLED Display. Why using LG OLED Display instead of Chinese own OLED display? you should know the answer.

Q Dot technology is not invented by China, TCL also get license. Also TCL is not the first one to introduce QD TV in the market, I dont know on what base you downplay other technological achievement by bragging delusion.

Come on. You know better than that.

A licensee is using someone else's technology.

In this thread, we're comparing the technological level of South Korea and China.

An idiot (Antonius) made the extraordinary claim that South Korea is ahead in technology. It is an absurd proposition. Much of South Korea's technology is licensed from the United States.

If people want to say that US technology is ahead of China, I don't have a problem with that.

When people make the silly claim that South Korea is ahead of China in technology, that's going to really annoy me.

Sorry - you are too ignorant if you say that Samsung has no patent on Semiconductor technology.

Does China produce semiconductor by her own invention? Can China produce semiconductor as good as Korea?

Sorry but you cant prove that China is ahead in Semiconductor and Display technology.

All the game you do is ignoring Korea achievement and play cherry picking on China's achievement. You cant take KEIT that lightly. Stop being ignorant.

 

[Beidou2020]

You are so ignorant and cherry picking.

China is excel in some technology (electric car maybe), but overall she is not ahead Korea yet.




You can't ignore Korea achievement in OLED technology just to satisfy your blind nationalistic.

OLED is already in the market. Skyworth and some other Chinese TV maker already release OLED TV using LG's OLED Display. Why using LG OLED Display instead of Chinese own OLED display? you should know the answer.

Q Dot technology is not invented by China, TCL also get license.

Korea is not ahead of China in technology overall.

 

[antonius123]

Korea is not ahead of China in technology overall.

Well I am not saying overall. I am saying several (according to the KIET).

I am not saying that KIET is accurate / correct, but I dont see any evidence show otherwise as well.

Sorry but martin has not bust anything except cherry picking, and somewhat delusion. Using production output to prove technological leadership is idiotic and logical failure.

 

[Blue Marlin]

OKay, let's just compare Korean T-50 vs China H-6K, J-8IIF, JH-7A, JF-17, J-10A, J-10B/C, J-11B, J-11D, J-15, J-16, J-31, J-20 ... if Korea just behind 4.3 year of China aviation industry, how long do u think Korean can design domestic fighter better than above, need 4.3 year or less ?


About T-50 jet trainer, the American say:


Lockheed Martin T-50 Multirole Trainer

US Stops Export of Korean Fighter Jets to Uzbekistan | The Diplomat

 

[Indos]

US Stops Export of Korean Fighter Jets to Uzbekistan | The Diplomat

Yeah I know it.......T 50 has too many US technology, so somehow it is a good things though not to have 4 critical technologies from USA (AESA, etc) and better develop it by ourselves, thats why the program will be lengthen. And thats why according to the recent plan, the plane will not fly around 2019 as the previous program said.

That is also why I like to see our KFX version uses European engine than USA one, as it has two options whether USA (General Electric) or European.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yeah I know it.......T 50 has too many US technology, so somehow it is a good things though not to have 4 critical technologies from USA (AESA, etc) and better develop it by ourselves, thats why the program will be lengthen. And thats why according to the recent plan, the plane will not fly around 2019 as the previous program said.

That is also why I like to see our KFX version uses European engine than USA one, as it has two options whether USA (General Electric) or European.

possibly the ej-200? the turkish tfx fith gen fighter will be using the same engine

 

[Indos]

possibly the ej-200? the turkish tfx fith gen fighter will be using the same engine

Yup, it has already been on the plan since the start and become the basis of the KFX 103 design.

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 or 2
• Length: 15.6 m (51.18 ft)
• Wingspan: 10.7 m (34.77 ft)
• Height: 4.5 m (14.76. ft)
• Powerplant: 2 × F414-GE-400K/EPE or EJ200 afterburning turbofan
  • Dry thrust: 13,000~13,500 lbf (57.8~60 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 20,250~22,000 lbf (90~97.7 kN) each

KAI KF-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[antonius123]

@Martian2 @cirr @Chinese-Dragon @j20blackdragon

This is becoming more and more absurd when people in this forum compare South Korea to China, which is technologically, scientifically, economically, militarily, geopolitically not comparable. If you are making a ridiculous claim that South Korea using American technology is superior to China, then I have a bad news for those idiots. Google "Your Next TV May Come from New Jersey." This is a report from Bloomberg and it actually says that Samsung and LG are licensing OLED technology from UDC. Sorry to disappoint you for proving that Samsung and LG are nothing more than giant assembly for American corporations. Martian2, maybe if you have time, you can post that report to filter trolls.

If people say China is behind the US, Germany and Japan, then I would agree. But South Korea? No. In fact, the "Made in China 2025" clearly indicates that China AT THIS MOMENT is in the third tier of manufacturing powerhouse along South Korea, United Kingdom and France (whereas both Japan and Germany are the second tier, and the US is the first tier nation), and China intends to eclipse both Japan and Germany by 2025 and the US by 2050.

Disclaimer: I actually can understand Korean (in fact, Korean is my first language and I've lived there when I was young) and lots of media reports from South Korea make ridiculous comments about its manufacturing capacity. For instance, recently the media state that South Korea is the leading nation in semiconductor industry. Obviously people who have knowledge in semiconductor industry realize that that comment is bullshit. But, interestingly enough, their English reports tend to be less nationalistic than the original reports.

Please don't cite Wikipedia to prove your claim. Regarding KFX, there are few experts in South Korea (whom by the way, unless you know Korean will have no idea who they are) who warned the government years ago about this whole fiasco (i.e. ToT) and the upcoming crisis regarding KFX, but their voices and opinions are not seen in English version of Korean newspaper. Of course, foreigner (i.e. Indonesian) would not know how disastrous KFX program is at this moment, but that is another story.

If I have time and if Chinese members here would like to know where and how disastrous KFX program is, I may translate (i.e not using Google Translator) those reports. But at this moment, I don't have time.

I am interested to know the accumulated IP portfolio in Display and Semiconductoring technology that China has over Korea.





I am interested to know the IP portfolio of Display technology that China poses.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yup, it has already been on the plan since the start and become the basis of the KFX 103 design.

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 or 2
• Length: 15.6 m (51.18 ft)
• Wingspan: 10.7 m (34.77 ft)
• Height: 4.5 m (14.76. ft)
• Powerplant: 2 × F414-GE-400K/EPE or EJ200 afterburning turbofan
  • Dry thrust: 13,000~13,500 lbf (57.8~60 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 20,250~22,000 lbf (90~97.7 kN) each

KAI KF-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

well it will be either or or. justlike the t50 where clients can choose between the two engines. but a base engine would be the ge414