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China Planemaker Gets New Orders in Fight With Airbus, Boeing

I would avoid a made in China plane, at least for now.

It will definitely safer than riding trains in India and our planes will never hit a buffalo :cheesy:

I requote for your review.
He said he would avoid a made in China plane, at least for now.
It doesn't mean any made in China plane in future.
Now, it's MA-60 which is loss rate too high.

You answered by statement "it ( China plane ) will definitely safer than riding trains in India"

That's why I called that's nonsense comparison ( compare airliner to train travelling )

Btw, could you point out what is safe Chinese passenger aircraft for now?
 
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I requote for your review.
He said he would avoid a made in China plane, at least for now.
It doesn't mean any made in China plane in future.

Exactly.

You answered by statement "it ( China plane ) will definitely safer than riding trains in India"

That's why I called that's nonsense comparison ( compare airliner to train travelling )

Btw, could you point out what is safe Chinese passenger aircraft for now?

Actually there was a news of an Indian plane hitting a buffalo on the runway a few days ago, believe it or not. :D He was alluding to that.
 
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flight routes which are affected due to military factors and that has led to more fuel costs than routine flights. Are these data available to you?

8-)

It's not difficult.

Just take a look at the high altitude airways in China.

A kid with a pencil and ruler randomly drawing straight lines on a map of China would probably represent more efficient routings than the ones the Chinese come up with.

If you're in the unfortunate position that you do not have access to Jeppesen, Navtech or Lido flight charts, let me know and I will see what I can do.

You can have a look at SkyVector too but I don't know how often it is updated
 
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It's not difficult.

Just take a look at the high altitude airways in China.

A kid with a pencil and ruler randomly drawing straight lines on a map of China would probably represent more efficient routings than the ones the Chinese come up with.

If you're in the unfortunate position that you do not have access to Jeppesen, Navtech or Lido flight charts, let me know and I will see what I can do.

Hey dont go back to the diatribes that bloke has been babbling
What is so "unfortunate" about not getting access to blah blah blan
Read my quote of Washington FB again
Dont make nonsense out of the center of the problem wont you, kid:dirol:?
 
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and still you dont think that was bizzare? good for India and its aviation industry. ;):cheesy:
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it was ..
it was accident ... neglect by grord .. security...
india is incredible even in bizzrs ...
aviation industry is too small here ...
 
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well you have your concerns
we laugh a bit over that :cheesy:

Off topic question - no offense:

Are buffalos less sacred than cows in India?
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we should laugh on each other than screming ... heee
in hnidu relgion .. Cows are most sacred becuase its associated with lord krishna.. god of love ...
Krishna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
images.jpg

you will find many photos with lord kishna and cow..

buffalos more associated yamraj,,, god of death
index.jpg


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Both are sacred
buffalow and cow
but fear bufflow ...:-)
 
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Read my above link to Washington FB. I have shown you the thief. :cheesy:
You are such a waste. Running posting after posting without understanding the crux the problem
Have you finished hi-school? :angry::dirol:
I finished high school, college, and since this is a military oriented forum, I have 10 yrs of USAF experience as well. What do you have, kid ?

But to continue making you look the ignorant fool...

Take Off: Can private airlines get off the ground in China? - CKGSB Knowledge
October 24, 2013

China’s aviation network is notorious for flight delays. A flight leaving from Beijing’s airport is the least likely in the world to take off on time, according to industry statistic collator FlightStats, as 82% of flights are delayed, with Shanghai as the second global worst with 71%.

A crucial issue is lack of airspace. In China, civil aviation can only use 32% of mainland skies, according to figures from the China National Airspace Technology Laboratory, causing diversions and delays.
China have similar geographical boundaries as the US, and yet only 1/3 of her airspace is available for air travel. It does not take much imagination to see the inevitable inefficient routing of air corridors.

Each diversion and delay erodes a nascent airline’s vulnerable margins, making it difficult for private carriers to weather the storm. “The infrastructure is so messed up. When you’re faced with delays, it’s hard to predict your costs. Flying to China we have to carry a lot of fuel, which is not cost efficient at all and sometimes we face huge delays, which eats into your fuel. This affects more the smaller domestic carriers,” says a senior first officer from a world-class international airline who declined to be named due to the sensitive nature of the topic.

Often, Chinese air-traffic control will cite the weather for flight diversions, those in the industry claim this is deceptive. “When I flew to Beijing recently, traffic control suggested we divert for weather purposes, but the weather looked fine to me. For the last two months, we’ve had several weather diversions every month which is not normal for any airport,” said the senior first officer. “Most airports let the pilot decide if they can make the landing. But in China they seem to decide for you before you even attempt the approach, so it’s really strange,” he adds.

Airlines are also subject to impromptu cancellations. “Sometimes air traffic control will tell you, due to flow control or airspace restrictions, Beijing airspace is closed, an hour before you get there, which is ridiculous. It’s not easy for pilots,” the senior first officer says. One result of overly congested airspace is mis-managed air traffic control. “China’s air traffic controllers have not had experience to deal with this kind of volume. The way they give air traffic controls is inefficient. They will make us descend very early and they will force you to descend quickly which is inefficient. As pilots we don’t want to descend and then hold straight and level at a lower altitude for a long time, we just want a smooth gliding descent which wastes the least fuel,” explains the senior first officer.
You do not close an airport with only one hr notice, especially to flights coming in for landing. Where are their alternates ? It does not take long after getting one's pilot license, even a private license, to know the value of a controlled and constant descent. Have enough throttle to keep from stalling. Let gravity do the majority of the work. Saves fuel.

Challenges await China's civil aviation sector en route to cruising altitude | CER
But tight military controls on airspace over the mainland aren’t the only culprit behind Chinese aviation’s infamous inefficiency. Even if onerous low-altitude restrictions were lifted, infrastructure shortcomings would still keep many aircraft grounded, whether from delays or lack of information. For commercial aviation, China's airports rank worst in the world in flight delays: 82% of flights at Beijing's international airport and 71% of flights out of Shanghai's don't leave on time, according to a 2013 FlightStats report (pdf), a testament to the industry’s current inability to handle large flight volume.

China’s Aviation Is Rapidly Growing. Technology In Aviation A Key Player | Coastflight
The military’s control of the airspace around even the biggest commercial airports is the equivalent of having just a few narrow exits for a jammed parking lot—that is, planes must line up for a chance to pass through the narrow military-authorized corridors. And the military’s control of nearly all the airspace between Chinese destinations means that flights within China, even by the favored national carriers, sometimes must fly indirect routes that are the equivalent of going all around the city on a ring road.

Inefficient air-traffic control and airspace use is the main reason flights are more often delayed in China than in other major aviation countries; why their scheduled travel time, per mile flown, is much longer than in North America or Europe; and why they burn up to twice as much fuel per passenger mile in some stages of flight as their counterparts in Europe or North America.
Yeah...You go right on and ask for data. See if anyone takes you seriously. :lol:
 
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I finished high school, college, and since this is a military oriented forum, I have 10 yrs of USAF experience as well. What do you have, kid ?

But to continue making you look the ignorant fool...

Take Off: Can private airlines get off the ground in China? - CKGSB Knowledge

China have similar geographical boundaries as the US, and yet only 1/3 of her airspace is available for air travel. It does not take much imagination to see the inevitable inefficient routing of air corridors.


You do not close an airport with only one hr notice, especially to flights coming in for landing. Where are their alternates ? It does not take long after getting one's pilot license, even a private license, to know the value of a controlled and constant descent. Have enough throttle to keep from stalling. Let gravity do the majority of the work. Saves fuel.

Challenges await China's civil aviation sector en route to cruising altitude | CER


China’s Aviation Is Rapidly Growing. Technology In Aviation A Key Player | Coastflight

Yeah...You go right on and ask for data. See if anyone takes you seriously. :lol:

Give us more of your grump and then go to see a psyhiatrist and a brain doctor - on the double :coffee::dirol:
 
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Give us more of your grump and then go to see a psyhiatrist and a brain doctor - on the double :coffee::dirol:
Sure...As you wish...

What's Clogging China's Air Traffic Pipeline? -
This year, China's air force increased its use of airspace resources to accommodate a rise in military activities in the East China Sea and Yellow Sea regions, a source close to CAAC decision-makers told Caixin.

Not only does the Chinese military control most of the sky, but all carrier routes and time slots must be approved by the air force. This is part of a so-called "unified control but separate command" system in which the military controls sky rights as well its own aircraft traffic, while CAAC controls domestic and foreign air traffic.

Zhang Jian, head of the Central South ATMB, said in his speech at an open forum that in Guangzhou, factors associated with military airspace accounted for 71 percent of total, local traffic control delays in 2009.

The efficiency and effectiveness of the civilian air traffic control network is also an issue. Office director of ATMB Liu Wendi, told Caixin most air traffic controllers are working as many hours as possible under enormously stressful conditions.

Moreover, according to a source from Air China, some controllers lack professional expertise. Altogether, ATMB's Zhang said, 9 percent of flight delays last year were linked to overloaded traffic controllers.

A pilot working for a major, state-owned carrier told Caixin outdated equipment and a general lack of professionalism among air traffic controllers contribute to inefficiencies in China's air traffic system.

The pilot said busy airports in the United States operate with as many as three radar systems for air traffic control. Most airports in China, however, rely on only one radar, which means controllers see aircraft from only one angle.
Let me know if you need anymore 'data'.
 
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