China, Pakistan ink $820m Thar coal agreement!

[Bilal.]

Excellent. Project financing secured, in just 3 to 4 year first power plant will be up and running.

 

[Viper0011.]

Thar coal remains a mirage. There is no tangible evidence that Pakistan will be able to harness it in a cost-effective way. This is not negativity, but reality.

If you have the entire scientific process learned and practiced, this low grade Coal can produce electricity and Gas in many different ways and cheaply as Pakistan has billions of metric tons, enough to burn for the next 50 years. The previous attempts failed because of corruption by Zardari. Everyone knew very well that by spending a mere few millions, you could get your senior scientist trained on utilizing lower grade Coal ...and turn it into a Goldmine for Pakistan's energy shortages. But, the previous gang of professional corrupts didn't want to do that. Instead, they wanted "foreign options" from the West, which obviously have a Swiss and a UK bank deposit component to those.

But now, you actually have the Chinese who'll be working with the Pakistani scientists, and the knowledge and the management of the entire thing will be transferred over to the Pakistani counterparts. There has been a huge policy shift since Nandi Por, the government doesn't trust the Pakistani engineers bullshiit and grandiose claims of "bring the technology, we'll manage it". Now they are making it mandatory for a batch of Pakistani engineers to be trained on technology first, before any project can get a go ahead towards production.

Wind energy is another example. Right now, there are multiple batches of Pakistani engineers in China and Europe, learning their tech, machinery and how to manage the maintenance of these machines when they fail. This is the best approach as its proven that foreign labor, if needed during production, becomes a hundreds of millions dollars worth of a financial hit (overall billions across the project). Saab Erieye AEW and Nandi Por are just two classic examples of such labor requirements post production / induction, that result in hundreds of extra millions of dollars (and the precious time that's wasted).

 

[Bilal.]

Congratulations, better sell all those coals before renewables becomes mainstream.

It's not suitable for selling, it's only good mine mouth power plants.

 

[VCheng]

If you have the entire scientific process learned and practiced, this low grade Coal can produce electricity and Gas in many different ways and cheaply as Pakistan has billions of metric tons, enough to burn for the next 50 years. The previous attempts failed because of corruption by Zardari. Everyone knew very well that y spending a mere few millions, you could get your senior scientist trained on utilizing lower grade Coal ...and turn it into Goldmine for Pakistan's energy shortages. But, the previous gang of professional corrupts didn't want to do that. Instead, they wanted "foreign options" from the West, which obviously have a Swiss and a UK bank deposit component to those.

But now, you actually have the Chinese who'll be working with the Pakistani scientists, and the knowledge and the management of the entire thing will be transferred over to the Pakistani counterparts. There has been a huge policy shift since Nandi Por, the government doesn't trust the Pakistani engineers bullshiit, grandiose claims of "bring the technology, we'll manage it". Now they are making it mandatory for a batch of Pakistani engineers to be trained on technology first, before any project can get a go ahead towards production.

Wind energy is another example. Right now, there are multiple batches of Pakistani engineers in China and Europe, learning their tech, machinery and how to manage the maintenance of these machines when they fail. This is the best approach as its proven that foreign labor, if needed during production, become a hundreds of millions dollars worth of a financial hit (overall billions across the project). Saab Erieye AEW and Nandi Por are just two classic examples of such labor requirements post production / induction, that result in hundreds of extra million (and the precious time that's wasted).

Your point about Chinese expertise being applied is a good one, but Grade B Lignite remains Grade B Lignite, and water-logged at that. There is no economic way around that fact.

 

[Skywalker]

Yawn. Another day, another claim for exploiting Thar coal effectively.

Oh look, here is another BS claim about Thar coal:

Cheap, Abundant Electricity From Thar Coal to End Load Shedding

You have nothing else but negativity in your comments, rather than polluting this forum with your negativity why not you just leave this forum and chill in the land of oppertunity and keep making burgers.

 

[mpk1988]

Good stuff. Self sufficiency in energy and the infra-led development (both economic and human) due to this is very much required. In-fact self sufficiency and development solves most of the problems and uplifts society itself.

Just make sure that corruption doesn't rear it's ugly head and that the project doesn't stagnate. More than anything else, stagnation, policy paralysis, complete incumbency along with looting and corruption are what drove Indians to elect BJP (unlike simple religious feelings). You cry for getting away from the Bhutto's, Zardari's, Sharif's etc.. We do the same..

 

[war&peace]

I am not so positive about this project. it is like a step backwards. We should focus on nuclear, solar, wind, hydro and biomass so as to minimise the damage to the environment. We can adequately meet all our current and future needs through renewable + nuclear sources.
Pakistan is already suffering from deforestation and metropolitan pollutants.

 

[Viper0011.]

Your point about Chinese expertise being applied is a good one, but Grade B Lignite remains Grade B Lignite, and water-logged at that. There is no economic way around that fact.

Ever heard of Shale energy? This is a good comparison, in Shale, you take wet damp sand and extract everything from it, including tiny little oil particles. Imagine how complex that it, Sand isn't burn-able. Coal is, even low quality. So Lignite is much better and cheaper than dry or went Sand extraction and refinement.....

 

[Pak_Sher]

Thar coal remains a mirage. There is no tangible evidence that Pakistan will be able to harness it in a cost-effective way. This is not negativity, but reality.

This will be a good project. The Chinese would not even invest a penny if they did not see the potential. Yes it is late to start but it is never too late. @Viper0011.

 

[VCheng]

Ever heard of Shale energy? This is a good comparison, in Shale, you take wet damp sand and extract everything from it, including tiny little oil particles. Imagine how complex that it, Sand isn't burn-able. Coal is, even low quality. So Lignite is much better and cheaper than dry or went Sand extraction and refinement.....

Using Grade B Lignite for large-scale electricity production is simply not economically feasible compared to the alternatives available. Oil obtained from tar sands is very different than shale oil, and both have very different processes and cost-effectiveness than coal. Your argument is simply inapplicable given the basics.

This will be a good project. The Chinese would not even invest a penny if they did not see the potential. Yes it is late to start but it is never too late. @Viper0011.

Details of what is being financed, and how, are needed to see whether this project will be feasible for its stated goals or not.

 

[Pak_Sher]

Using Grade B Lignite for large-scale electricity production is simply not economically feasible compared to the alternatives available. Oil obtained from tar sands is very different than shale oil, and both have very different processes and cost-effectiveness than coal. Your argument is simply inapplicable given the basics.



Details of what is being financed, and how, are needed to see whether this project will be feasible for its stated goals or not.

Transparency is great for any commercial deal, agreed. Are you assuming that the Chinese are giving that investment without transparency? It will not happen especially when there is a consortium of private banks involved as well. You and me may not have the details but that does not mean that they are all clueless. On the other hand youhave posted your judgement without having the details. That is a common Pakistani problem.

 

[C130]

interesting while China and the world is curbing it's coal consumption and coal prices are the lowest in a decade this happened.


the coal plants makes sense, but why doesn't Pakistan just buy Australian coal???


Historical Coal Prices and Price Chart - InvestmentMine

 

[VCheng]

Transparency is great for any commercial deal, agreed. Are you assuming that the Chinese are giving that investment without transparency? It will not happen especially when there is a consortium of private banks involved as well. You and me may not have the details but that does not mean that they are all clueless. On the other hand youhave posted your judgement without having the details. That is a common Pakistani problem.

Sir, the record of any Pakistani government (civil or military) is not that great when it comes to transparency of any kind. My comments are quite appropriate, given that record.

 

[Bilal.]

This will be a good project. The Chinese would not even invest a penny if they did not see the potential. Yes it is late to start but it is never too late. @Viper0011.

Detailed bankable feasibility has already been done. It has been discussed a thousand times here. Now the next phase of project financing and mobilisation is happening.

thar block 2 bankable feasibility - Google Search

 

[VCheng]

Detailed bankable feasibility has already been done. It has been discussed a thousand times here. Now the next phase of project financing and mobilisation is happening.

thar block 2 bankable feasibility - Google Search

Sir, please keep in mind that the energy content of Thar lignite (about 6,000 BTU/lb) is only about just over half of that of German Lignite (about 11,000 BTU/lb), and with a higher sulfur content.