China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[Kloitra]

You seriously expect me to agree with your claim that one of our closest allies (Pakistan) is a rogue state?

Even if I somehow believed something so ridiculous, I wouldn't even say it out of common courtesy.

We know that you are being courteous
Their support to various terrorist group is open to all. Even their own allies do not trust them. Openly blame elements of their government for support of terrorism. On international stage, they barely have any support, even from you. Your stance doesn't seems more than that of courtesy!

 

[Vinod2070]

No it was the other way around.

Why is that? As far as we are concerned, it was another Chinese intrusion across the LAC.

Well then, I guess we agree.

Modi has his "new assertive posture", and so China (and hopefully Pakistan) must make plans for the repeat of another Forward Policy, and even if Modi doesn't want it consciously, neither did Nehru. But he started one anyway.

We are not going to drop the ball this time, anyone who wants to start a conflict is welcome to face China at the peak of our power in the past 200 years, with a manufacturing base that could outlast any other, pumping out infinite amounts of weapon platforms, backed by currency reserves larger than the rest of the world combined.

Of course I wish to avoid war if possible, but sometimes the other side makes that impossible. And we must defend ourselves with everything we have.

I think you are imagining stuff but that is fine. I think the next 10 years of Modi will see the border issue with China resolved.

You seriously expect me to agree with your claim that one of our closest allies (Pakistan) is a rogue state?

Even if I somehow believed something so ridiculous, I wouldn't even say it out of common courtesy.

The Pakistani government is VERY amenable to our opinions and our goals. How could we possibly have a problem with that.

Well, you have been blaming them for training Xinjiang terrorists.

Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists – The Express Tribune

KASHGAR, CHINA:
China has blamed terrorists trained in Pakistan for an outbreak of deadly violence and imposed heavy security on Monday in a bid to prevent further unrest.

Nineteen people were killed in two separate incidents in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar over the weekend in the latest wave of violence to hit the restive Xinjiang region, home to a mainly Muslim Uighur minority.

The Kashgar local government said in a statement on its website that the assailants who attacked a restaurant that left six dead on Sunday had learned explosive-making skills in terrorist-run camps in Pakistan.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Well, who even uses the term "Rogue state" apart from America and their vassals?

I'm sure you can tell, but China does massive trade with all the countries that are listed by America as "Rogue states", and plenty of trade with those who are not as well.

If you trade with us, don't try to attack our sovereignty, then why would we have a problem with ANY country.

May be if and when(God forbid) some state beheads Chinese soldiers, you may get my point.

Why is that? As far as we are concerned, it was another Chinese intrusion across the LAC.



I think you are imagining stuff but that is fine. I think the next 10 years of Modi will see the border issue with China resolved.



Well, you have been blaming them for training Xinjiang terrorists.

Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists – The Express Tribune

KASHGAR, CHINA:
China has blamed terrorists trained in Pakistan for an outbreak of deadly violence and imposed heavy security on Monday in a bid to prevent further unrest.

Nineteen people were killed in two separate incidents in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar over the weekend in the latest wave of violence to hit the restive Xinjiang region, home to a mainly Muslim Uighur minority.

The Kashgar local government said in a statement on its website that the assailants who attacked a restaurant that left six dead on Sunday had learned explosive-making skills in terrorist-run camps in Pakistan.

Leave it. One who has made up his mind will be impervious to logic. His hardcore anti India stance won't make me anti Chinese.
Just that it will be unfortunate when the wheel comes around. Just as it did with the USA. And now even Iran.

Hell, imagine the carefully nurtured 'strategic assets' going berserk to such an extent that the country's own army has to use the air forces against it on its own soil - over and over again! The same army that has the record of coups and counter coups in 50 years! Iran and even puny Afghanistan goes inside and pursues hit and run operations to track hiding terrorists. Americans put so much faith in the establishment that they had to send SEALs to eliminate Osama bin Laden close to 50miles from the Army HQ!

Such is the state of a rogue state. Every person is entitled to their opinions. It is not a source of our concern. China and India are engaging in multi billion dollar deals and will continue to do so - irrespective of the hope of Islamists of a flare up.

 

[Kloitra]

The Pakistani government is VERY amenable to our opinions and our goals. How could we possibly have a problem with that.

Unfortunately they have shown again and again that their government's right arm doesn't know where the left is sticking.

 

[jha]

Jeez All this discussion, the thread, the time typing all this, the debates - all based on the hope that 'Indian troops may get emboldened' and all that!

All this while I thought India forces have fired upon Chinese positions.

Well, since they have not, your thinking is .... well, mildly put - your thinking. From my end - case closed.

Thats always the case ... I have been long enough in this forum to understand uske badalte tewar with badalte mousam... Bahut mehnat ki hai isne yeh thread banane mein.. Aapne to uske pure plan ki le li..

 

[bloo]

You know on the Global Terrorism Index, India is ranked the 3rd in the world?

Bomb blasts: India 3rd most dangerous country in the world! - News Oneindia



India suffered twice as many bomb blasts in 2013, compared to Afghanistan! Now that is crazy, and earns you the title of 3rd place on the Global Terrorism Index.

So that's not really an area of comparison here, China is not even ranked in the top 20.

Granted we have our own problems with Islamic extremism in the far western province of Xinjiang, but even Uyghurs and Tibetans combined only make up less than 1% of our population.

Whereas India has the 2nd highest number of Muslims in the world, and the growth rates are exploding.

----------

Of course, that's not relevant to what I said, which was cross-border bloodshed. You can say all you want, but when was the last time we shelled villages in any of our neighbouring countries? You did it a few days ago, killing 20 civilians in one go, and the bloodshed on your borders with Pakistan/Bangladesh is pretty much constant.

Hence China again... ranking FAR higher than India on the Global Peace Index.

Remember that we did not compile the Global Terrorism Index or the Global Peace Index, you can check them yourself, they are compiled by international organizations.

Actually India is 4th right now.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

May be if and when(God forbid) some state beheads Chinese soldiers, you may get my point.

You can make claims as much as you like, neither I nor my Government considers Pakistan to be a rogue state.

As for border incidents, India always comes up with a story completely different to that of Pakistan. Reality is a facade until they release detailed information about the border incidents, otherwise I'll have to choose between the word of the PK government and the word of the Indian government, and frankly you can guess which one I choose. Hint: It's the same answer I choose when it comes to the so-called Sino-Indian border incursions, i.e. Not the Indian government.

Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists – The Express Tribune

KASHGAR, CHINA:
China has blamed terrorists trained in Pakistan for an outbreak of deadly violence and imposed heavy security on Monday in a bid to prevent further unrest.

Nineteen people were killed in two separate incidents in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar over the weekend in the latest wave of violence to hit the restive Xinjiang region, home to a mainly Muslim Uighur minority.

The Kashgar local government said in a statement on its website that the assailants who attacked a restaurant that left six dead on Sunday had learned explosive-making skills in terrorist-run camps in Pakistan.

Terrorists "trained" in Pakistan, obviously those terrorists are also enemies of the Pakistani state.

Which further proves that the Pakistani state is on our side, since terrorists who attack them also hate us.

 

[jha]

Unfortunately they have shown again and again that their government's right arm doesn't know where the left is sticking.

Very soon someone in Pakistan's non-state actors will realize that China is also "kaafir"... Will be interesting to see how China responds to Pakistan's "export" then.

 

[Vinod2070]

Terrorists "trained" in Pakistan, obviously those terrorists are also enemies of the Pakistani state.

Which further proves that the Pakistani state is on our side, since terrorists who attack them also hate us.

That is an interesting logic.

Good going. I think we understand each other.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Indian claims that there is a "rogue element" within the PLA causing the border issues, just points back to the fact that Xi Jinping has the ultimate authority over the PLA, both in terms of position and in terms of fact.

I am a private citizen. I don't represent the Government of India. I don't the integrity of the Chinese armed forces and their discipline. My barb is against the armed forces with the distinction of having executed the maximum number of coups in its independent history.

 

[Vinod2070]

Very soon someone in Pakistan's non-state actors will realize that China is also "kaafir"... Will be interesting to see how China responds to Pakistan's "export" then.

It is not in future. It is an existing reality. China is a target for Islamic terrorists and not just because of the Xinjiang issue.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Very soon someone in Pakistan's non-state actors will realize that China is also "kaafir"... Will be interesting to see how China responds to Pakistan's "export" then.

I have been called a "kaffir" on here a few times, by a few different nationalities. (Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Others).

I don't expect that they will suddenly grow to love an Atheist Chinese overnight, but that doesn't change the geopolitical reality.

The geopolitical reality is that we need Pakistan to control movement on our Western border, just like America needs Pakistan to control movement on Afghanistan's Eastern border.

That's a fact. Otherwise the only option we will have is to simply seal the border.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Reality is a facade until they release detailed information about the border incidents, otherwise I'll have to choose between the word of the PK government and the word of the Indian government, and frankly you can guess which one I choose. Hint: It's the same answer I choose when it comes to the so-called Sino-Indian border incursions, i.e. Not the Indian government.

Exactly. Which is why I believe future discussions with you will no longer be any fruitful. Signing off. Over and out.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Exactly. Which is why I believe future discussions with you will no longer be any fruitful. Signing off. Over and out.

Good, since apparently you can't understand why I would choose the word of my own Chinese Government instead of the Indian Government.

 

[jha]

It is not in future. It is an existing reality. China is a target for Islamic terrorists and not just because of the Xinjiang issue.

What is happening in Xinjiang is not what I am talking about. I am talking about someone in TTP/ISIS/Taliban suddenly realizing that they have a neighbor where condition is ripe to export their ideology.
Whats happening currently in those areas of China is "peanuts" ( quoting Zia ). Some Uighyrs come to an agency and receive basic training and go back to do some knife attacks. What if professionals from TTP/ISIS/Taliban/AQ start training them..? A Jihad in the biggest Kaafir land may very well find some very determined takers..