China, Pakistan, and Nuclear Non-Proliferation

[syedali73]

Off topic!!
I'll reply back to this if am tagged on a more appropriate thread.


Off topic and personal attack!!
I will report your post if you continued misconstruing my posts.

Go ahead. Those you will be reporting are as much aware of your ways as I am. India steals nuclear material from a reactor dedicated for civilian use is good; Pakistan obtains nuclear knowhow, it becomes crime. India working with Russia for decades is no nexus, Pakistan China is nexus. Go ahead, report.

 

[Levina]

. Pakistan obtains nuclear knowhow, it becomes crime..

Partner-in-crime is an idiom!!!!


Just FYI-

 

[Gufi]

Pakistan used some civilisational logic to raise funds. I can't take names here.Ahem!!!

This is a direct quote or is this your own idea?

 

[Levina]

This is a direct quote or is this your own idea?

Quote from a book called "
The Politics of Nuclear Weapons in South Asia"

 

[Gufi]

But again, I don't hate Pakistan, nor do I hate Pakistanis but I hate the lies which comes from across the border.

You say there is no hatred but then you go and say this. Not polite at all. Try to be civil

Quote from a book called "
The Politics of Nuclear Weapons in South Asia"

please mention it I got confused cuz there is a lol in there and I thought it was a mixture....

In March 1965, Pakistan’s then-Foreign Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto declared in an interview with the Manchester Guardian that if India were to produce a nuclear weapon, Pakistan “should have to eat grass and get one, or build one of our own.” A few months prior to India’s “Smiling Buddha” nuclear test in 1974, Bhutto met with top Pakistani scientists to begin work on a Pakistani nuclear device, codenamed Project 706. Bhutto enlisted the services of the now-infamous AQ Khan, who stole blueprints for centrifuge technology and contact information of vendors that sold centrifuge components from his employer, a research laboratory in the Netherlands.

@levina The Pakistani's used every means possible to get the Nucs and they ended up getting them. Before you think of the other side as enemies we just wanted parity. Just like India lied about its use of material from reactors we lied also. The thing is these articles are moot points in history now, the thing that is a fact now is there are two nuclear armed countries who can not get along but must have to.
And if you are the UAE i would advice you to not use quotes with Arab states in that context, privacy is not a given and simple debates can turn out to be troublesome to you.

 

[Levina]

You say there is no hatred but then you go and say this. Not polite at all. Try to be civil

Since this part is off topic I will reply back to this one on whatever thread (that's what was suggested by the admin).

 

[OrionHunter]

Today, China is not only a violator of global nuclear non-proliferation norms, but also presents the most convincing evidence of the non-proliferation regime’s ineffectiveness. The pattern of its behavior on the nuclear front as it relates to Pakistan goes well beyond the scope of what may be construed as the state’s legitimate ambition to be a leader in the supply of civilian nuclear technology.

I think we need to get real. Non-proliferation norms are dead. No one cares two hoots anymore. It's a free for all now. Countries will continue with what they're doing whenever it suits their national interests. Regulations and norms are for the birds.

Like what happened when the world's biggest proliferater AQ Khan who was running an international nuclear mafia was exposed? The world especially the US mumbled a few stock phrases, calling him a bad boy who needs to behave and that was that. No one took any action either against him or the countries involved.

So it's going to be business as usual. China will keep providing nuclear technology to Pakistan till the cows come home. It's a win-win situation for both Pakistan and China, proliferation norms be damned!

 

[YoucanYouup]

I guess nuclear weapon will protect Pakistan
India will calm down,and peace will come

 

[Paksanity]

India started this nuclear thing in the region. They were the ones exploding nuclear device in 1974. Why cry now? Pakistan was forced into this position and will do whatever it takes to protect its sovereignty. I invite everyone especially Indian members to go through statements of Indian government, politicians and officials in early May 1998. How they threatened to annihilate Pakistan immediately. It will open your eyes to the fact what were Indian designs.

And no, we only started our nuclear program AFTER Indian nuclear test in 1974. So it was a response not an escalation or instigation. Due to that ambitious misadventure, people of this region now live under the threat of nuclear apocalypse. You guys started it. Don't blame us now.

On topic however, India has little to show for itself as an opponent of nuclear proliferation. Pakistan stance is very much principled. We have nuclear weapons because we are threatened by nuclear India. We will disarm if India does so. We will also accept capping of our nuclear capability of India's capability is also capped at nuclear balance with Pakistan. These are Pakistan's terms for signing NPT and FMCT which Pakistan insists to be changed to FMT status.

What is India's stance? We will not sign them because we are too big to accept monitoring from IAEA. (for those who don't know, some of reactors in both India and Pakistan are monitored by IAEA but not those who are associated with weapon grade uranium our plutonium).

Now to this article. India could not produce enough fissile material to match that of Pakistan but it had and has edge in plutonium based fissile material. For smaller warheads and thus longer range missiles, Pakistan needed it. That is why its recent push have been in this direction and it was a massive push. Alarmed, India turned to US for its nuclear deal. Now the trick in this deal is, US supplies fissile material for IAEA guarded reactors and justifies it in NSG. This enables India to divert its enriched plutonium from non IAEA guarded reactors to its weapon grade fissile material facilities. So effectively US will help India build nuclear weapons albeit in an indirect way. Something India could not do on its own to match production of Pakistan.

US is member of Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which controls the trade of nuclear fuel so that other states don't gain Nuclear Weapon. This is however being bypassed in case of India and US faces criticism inside NSG for doing this.

Now here is an interesting question from all of you, when and why was NSG created??!!

It WAS created after Indian nuclear test in 1974 in a bid to stop trade of nuclear material to non nuclear states.....Oohhhh.. the irony!

Hope it clears few minds.

 

[B+ Dracula]

I guess nuclear weapon will protect Pakistan
India will calm down,and peace will come

I suggest a Suppository for their DELUSIONS...

 

[asad71]

One he sits in a glass house should not throw stones at others. One who is a nuclear should not raise eyebrows when others acquire nukes.Be they Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia or BD. Not counting Israel because its a pariah nation.

 

[ravi kiran]

One he sits in a glass house should not throw stones at others. One who is a nuclear should not raise eyebrows when others acquire nukes.Be they Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia or BD. Not counting Israel because its a pariah nation.

so BD also want nuclear weapon????

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

That is the stupidest article I ever read on Chinese-Pakistani nuclear relationship.

 

[ravi kiran]

That is the stupidest article I ever read on Chinese-Pakistani nuclear relationship.

how??

 

[Spy Master]

As Gary Milhollin (of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear arms control) Puts it..
“If you subtract Chinese assistance from the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, there is no program".
Lol
Now, ostensibly in November 2014 after the announcement that Iran was about to sign a deal with Western negotiators concerning its nuclear program(the date of which was later extended) an ex Chinese ambassador to Tehran, Hua Liming said that it was Beijing which deserved credit for brokering the agreement. “When the two parties came across irresolvable problems, they would come to China, which would ‘lubricate’ the negotiation and put things back on track"- Hua's statement.
China has not just helped Pakistan and Iran in their nuclear programme but also rogue states like North Korea.
Since North Korea and Iran 're not an immediate threat to india, we should not really be concerned bout 'em.

But let me take your attention to something more important, that while China was ready to help Pakistan with technology, they were not ready to fund it. So who pumped money into Pakistan's nuclear programme???
Not hard to guess!!
Pakistan used some civilisational logic to raise funds. I can't take names here.Ahem!!!
I can just give a hint that "this is how China came close to the Arab world".
So you see, Pakistan has more than one partner-in-crime.


Sorry to rain on your party but let me clear a few doubts here
1) North Korea itself gets help from China,so whatever help Pakistan gets from North Korea (as you think) is nothing but China's help to you (directly or indirectly).
2) flashback 1970's:
Check Bhutto's diaries to know how many trips he made to China between 1971 and 1976 to get some assistance in nuclear weapon technology??
He went thrice to China!! (I can't say about other pawns in the game).
China took its time to assess the prospects and consequences of helping Pakistan and finally agreed.

Oh yeah only Indians can make Indigenous Missiles and Nukes and Pakistan Can't...Height of stupidity...!

Go ahead. Those you will be reporting are as much aware of your ways as I am. India steals nuclear material from a reactor dedicated for civilian use is good; Pakistan obtains nuclear knowhow, it becomes crime. India working with Russia for decades is no nexus, Pakistan China is nexus. Go ahead, report.

Exactly this is the ill mentality of our neighbour and people like @levina (though i had respect for her)...Like Brahmos is a co-product of Russia-India but when it comes to JF-17 and we say that we have 57% share then a big NO...You Can't Do It...! Actually their media has feeded them for quite a time that Pakistan is nothing and going to fall someday while India is super dooper power...can do anything...Stupidity...!