China opposes Israel's settlements construction in occupied Palestinian territory

[below_freezing]

Dear ePhone,

I agree with sharpie and no_name that this flag system is not helping as much as it should. It is serving rather to impede rational discussion and inflame passion destructively.

We had in the past entities who adorned PRC's flag on the one side and Pakistan's colour on the other - while having nothing to do with either, and dedicated themselves to making a mess of things. This happened before the current crop of full-timers even showed up on the scene ....

Now some of them adorn the flags of some islands ... and their views have become more nuanced. But that's an aside.

Flags are only useful if some basic rules are adhered to with respect to places of origin/birth and places of (more or less permanent) residence. I personally feel that it is unnecessary for you to wear Pakistan's colour here ... even though it may be said that your heart is "in the right place" ...

In fact I had no doubt of your national origin when I read sentences such as "they keep their race intact even under great suffer, just like we Chinese were" ... and "These two races have a lot in common and we have a lot to learn from each other."

You are authentic because you are essentially "FOB" (I'd like to think I haven't lost the "freshness" myself). I am fairly certain that you spent your entire high school in China, which is exactly where I spent my own formative years. From the way you go on about "races", I dare even say that you spent your college years in China, too. Perhaps even beyond.

Most of us know exactly what you mean ... but even below_freezing would substitute "races" with "Chinese people" or "Jewish people" ...

You are not just authentic, buddy. You are actually old school.

That's why I addressed you as such in my post to you earlier. Really, I didn't mean any offense.

Now let's go back and visit the topic itself dispassionately.

people in early 90's believed in israel, admired eistein and marx, etc. anyone that was 15 or older in 1999 knows what israel did. some people see parallels with Jews and Chinese keeping thier race intact. I see parellels with Japanese and Chinese during Japan's 60 year occupation of Taiwan. Also, I don't know Einstein but I know Boltzmann, Gibbs, Plank, Bohr, Fermi, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Maxwell and Faraday. Basically, Aryans and Anglo Saxons.

 

[iPakMan]

people in early 90's believed in israel, admired eistein and marx, etc. anyone that was 15 or older in 1999 knows what israel did. some people see parallels with Jews and Chinese keeping thier race intact. I see parellels with Japanese and Chinese during Japan's 60 year occupation of Taiwan. Also, I don't know Einstein but I know Boltzmann, Gibbs, Plank, Bohr, Fermi, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Maxwell and Faraday. Basically, Aryans and Anglo Saxons.

The entire couple of last pages weren`t exactly on the subject of Israel....Moving on though, what did chinese 15 and older knew about Israel?

 

[ephone]

I refer to placenta 胎盘, not 婴儿. Nobody eats 婴儿 unless he/she is criminally minded.

I am not saying that for some western media or whatsoever. So please do not put a big hat on my head.

Infanticide in China indeed exists and I can clearly tell you that it is not just a few cases.

我甚至不知道怎么说你。你真的不能分辨“胎盘”和“婴儿”的不同？胎盘甚至能是一种中药材，这是婴儿？西方将谢谢你为你的糊涂。

I do not even know how to say you. You really can not tell, "胎盘" and "婴儿" different? Even the placenta is a traditional Chinese medicine, this is the baby? West will thank you for your confused.

 

[ephone]

You clearly do not know anybody from those regions. I have friends and classmates from Xinjiang, LanZhou, NingXia, Shaanxi and etc. My wife also have many classmates from there. She also knows some girls from Uighur class (新疆&#29677. All of these are first hand knowledge through casual conversations through my five years and her four years college life. We also met some friends from there in US for the last decades.

Majority Han vs Minority Muslim tension has always been there, especially in the countryside and the western regions including Gansu, Ningxia and Xinjiang. Uighur and Hui are two that clash with Han for most of the time. My friends told me that if I ever go to those places, do not have any confrontation with those locals. They also try their best to avoid them and avoid any possibility of confrontation.

In major cities along the East China, you do not see much problems since Han is so dominant. In the western region, it is totally different story even Han is still dominant, but not everywhere.

Han has tight control over those minorities and over how they can practice their religions (set up many limitations). The resentment clearly is there. In highly-educated places, such conflicts are less likely. However, in those rural areas with little formal education but 阿訇 Imams, it is much more likely.

You must have read so much our peaceful majority-minority relationship propaganda within China and believe those craps. Clearly, except Tibet and muslim, we indeed have much fewer problems with other minorities. Well these two minorities indeed have a much deeper root in religion than others.

There is an obvious misunderstanding, clear it, even if you are Chinese, it would have been misunderstood, HUI Muslim without any problems, but I know what you mean. You think there are some problems in the countryside, you think it is ethnic and religious issues, in fact, it is not, first, the number of times is almost negligible. Second, I tell you, some remote villages in China, there is a problem in general, even in the Han, but it was rendered, for example, if you have any minority participation, which is a national problem. It really is a national problem? In fact, it is not. It is only among some farmers (lack of adequate education) fights for the little things. Stupid and pathetic. You can avoid a fight in your life? Group conflict is inevitable in human society, especially in underdeveloped areas, but it is definitely not ethnic conflict, you need to tell the difference. As long as there are ethnic minorities, do you think it is a national and religious issues, this is your misunderstanding. And what happens when the last large-scale (hundreds) of the man fight?

 

[ephone]

For what I refer to, Wiki is good enough. Of course, it indeed did not tell the whole bloody history but that is my goal either.

And if you say the history of China, please make full, WIKI is not a good place to understand China.

http://www.360doc.com/content/11/0214/12/5369656_92906217.shtml

 

[cross1993]

I have never heard of anyone eating the placenta and infant. Where it is the custom?
Do you think Chinese people are cannibals?

Infanticide in China indeed exists, but it is only a small number of cases.
Infanticide is a crime in China, Offenders will be sentenced. For example:
±±¾©Ò»´ò¹¤ÃÃɱӤÅ×ʬÀ¬»ø¶Ñ°¸ÐûÅÐ- Öйú·¨ÔºÍø

Western also has infanticide offenders. For example:
http://yxk.cn.yahoo.com/articles/20100809/3wh4.html

 

[ephone]

What you said clearly show how simple minded you are.

I did not raise those topics while some others said it. I only mentioned that since some of those indeed happened in China and still happened. One the one hand, we hate the Japanese for not recognizing Nanjing Massacre, on the other hand, we deny those have never happened in China?

Your definition of degrading China is just so naive.

Bro, exactly, he generalized everything inorder to make a point, say eventhough some incicdents like thats does happened, but that dosn't mean the whole Chinese race has to be label for eating....
Anyway, you could easily tell by his posts, he's on a mission to degrade China and Chinese under the disguse of a 愤青, my guess will be he's either from 法轮功 or tibetan.
PS, knowing Chinese doesn't always=Chinese.

 

[cross1993]

@ephone

I think you are not a Chinese. You have many misunderstandings for China.
Your information source is not reliable.

 

[ephone]

You have never heard of that? How about either Google or Baidu "胎盘 营养" and see what you can find?

You can ask your mom whether she knows anything about that. Do not we Chinese eat everything??? How are you so surprised???

If infanticide is just a smaller case, you think our current male-female imbalance is simply the result of nature selection???

I have never heard of anyone eating the placenta and infant. Where it is the custom?
Do you think Chinese people are cannibals?

Infanticide in China indeed exists, but it is only a small number of cases.
Infanticide is a crime in China, Offenders will be sentenced. For example:
±±¾©Ò»´ò¹¤ÃÃɱӤÅ×ʬÀ¬»ø¶Ñ°¸ÐûÅÐ- Öйú·¨ÔºÍø

Western also has infanticide offenders. For example:
http://yxk.cn.yahoo.com/articles/20100809/3wh4.html

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

Just accusations, why do you point out one by one???

@ephone

I think you are not a Chinese. You have many misunderstandings for China.
Your information source is not reliable.

 

[ephone]

Such a generalization and hollow sentences here. What is your point exactly???

people in early 90's believed in israel, admired eistein and marx, etc. anyone that was 15 or older in 1999 knows what israel did. some people see parallels with Jews and Chinese keeping thier race intact. I see parellels with Japanese and Chinese during Japan's 60 year occupation of Taiwan. Also, I don't know Einstein but I know Boltzmann, Gibbs, Plank, Bohr, Fermi, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Maxwell and Faraday. Basically, Aryans and Anglo Saxons.

 

[ephone]

You clearly try to avoid the issue by blaming the poor conditions of the past. Why don't you go to those 孤儿院 and see how many of them are boys??? How many Chinese adopted Children are boys??? If it is boy, it is very likely he has certain defect or health problems.

Such male-female imbalance statistics are published not only by the west, but also by ourselves. 社科院 has many scholars discussing such problems for a long time already. The relaxation of one-child policy has been adapted in big cities and some part of countryside as well.

Such issue is there and economic development can help. That is not the argument here. The problem is indeed there in the past, now and will still be there in the future. Better economic development, relaxation of one-child policy as well as better realization of policy in the local government may make it less problematic in the future.

There are female infanticide, yes, that there are some poor Chinese people to abandon their children because of not raising their children, it is tragic, however, that not only female infanticide, baby boy also， in the past China is a poor country, that is the reason, you want to blame China for the other? That is why China needs fast economic development reasons. This situation has improved a lot for now, only occur in exceptional circumstances.

 

[cross1993]

You have never heard of that? How about either Google or Baidu "胎盘 营养" and see what you can find?

You can ask your mom whether she knows anything about that. Do not we China eat everything??? How are you so surprised???

If infanticide is just a smaller case, you think our current male-female imbalance is simply the result of nature selection???

I've heard of "Placenta extract", but I never heard of eating the placenta.
?_???
I have not heard of the baby-eating! That is insane rumors! Tell me, which website said that Chinese people eat babies?

Yes, we have male-female imbalance problem. But the cause of this problem is "type-B ultrasonic"
B³¬_°Ù¶È°Ù¿Æ
They use instruments to identify sex of the fetus, then decide whether abortion.
But this behavior has been banned now:
?/??

 

[cross1993]

I think you are not a Chinese, but an anti-China foreigners.
If you are Chinese, you must know "type-B ultrasonic", but you do not know.

 

[Brotherhood]

What you said clearly show how simple minded you are.

I did not raise those topics while some others said it. I only mentioned that since some of those indeed happened in China and still happened. One the one hand, we hate the Japanese for not recognizing Nanjing Massacre, on the other hand, we deny those have never happened in China?

Your definition of degrading China is just so naive.

Great, so going by your logic, child molesting happened in every countries and still happening since you are in US, can i label you as a child molester in US and you need to admit it? what about online gay in US, according to your logic, does that implied you are a online gay looking for attention? Incest happened in the whole world, can i assume you must admit you mess with your family eh?
Bottom line: do not generalize, the whole Chinese race need not to take responsibilty for some individual misbehavior, there are crazy people in every corner on the planet period.

 

[ephone]

First, That is your point, not mine.

My point is that it is not China's interest to totally side with Muslim, or totally side with Jewish state. We need maintain our balance. We will not condemn Israel wholeheartedly and that will block any further healthy relationship development. So I think it is very likely we have certain co-operations with Israel behind curtains or let Israel know what our comments really mean and such comments are not meant to hurt relationship between the two countries. Without such diplomatic channels, it will be easily understood by the Israel that China is on the total opposite side of Israel, such misunderstanding clearly is not in China interest. We only blindly support those Arabs during Mao's era. After open and reform, we have adjusted our positions a lot already.

Of course, we have to say something to make the Arabs happy since we have to buy a lot of oil and gas from them. So such diplomatic comments are just superficial and China indeed will not do anything about it even Israel continue building settlements there day in and day out.

I do believe in the long run Israel need make concession to be possible to have permanent peace by giving up lands and dividing Jerusalem, just like what Israel did with Egypt over Sinai. While giving up some lands might be possible, dividing Jerusalem might be nearly impossible. However, that is up to them and their next generations to decide what they want.

As for the Muslim Uighur, they do received financial supports from many Muslim countries including those Arabs. Saudi has been a big financiers to muslims all over the world, including them of course. I do think China need its iron hand on those Uighur since that is the only thing they understand better. For the past 400 years, history clearly has shown that under Iron Hand control, there will be peace there. As long as government looses the control, they will tend to carry on their terrorist/separatist activities.

BTW, about your percentage stuff, I have no idea where that comes from. Those percentages are really clean: 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%....

In addition, "know the difference between an "Arab Israeli" and a "West-bank Palestinian"" will have any influence??? For Arab Israeli, they have Israel nationality and ethically are Arab. The other ones do not have Israel nationality and are refuges due to those several Arab-Israel wars in the past decades. What does that will bring you???

About Einstein's view on Zionism, I have no idea. Knowing his view or not knowing his view will be of help to solve any issue here? His contribution is not in politics, but in Physics. He is one of those Jewish scientists who have made great contribution to human development. He has never been a politician and he even turned down invitation to be the first president of Jewish state. What is your point dragging him here?

As for "articulate for us the difference between a West-bank Palestinian and an Arab Israeli", clearly the big difference is that one has a official country it belongs to while the other does (West-bank Palestinian) not but stay as refuges for generations.

Israeli Arabs would be much less likely support of Hamas even though they are also Muslims. While Palestinian may have strong support Hamas since they see no other way out.

Still showing or knowing their difference will mean what exactly??? I have no idea where you want to drag it into but I know it is already far away from the main point we discussed about China position over Israel and Palestinian.

Your fallacy # 1:

China faces a Muslim Uighur insurgency in Xinjiang / "East Turkestan", and Israel faces a Muslim-dominated Palestinian resistance. Therefore China should side with Israel on all things.


The number of people in China who hold this view, especially among the "superficially educated", is indeed not as small as we would think. That evidently includes yourself.

Let me tell you, just as Kamikaze astutely points out, 100% Chinese high school students know Einstein is Jewish, 75% of them know Karl Marx is Jewish, 50% of them know Einstein won his Nobel on his "minor contributions to physics" (just as you say), and 25% of them think Jewish people are the brightest on earth.

Ask them exactly what Einstein's stance was on certain aspects of Zionism, they will all blank - including you.

And more pertinently, how many of them know the difference between an "Arab Israeli" and a "West-bank Palestinian"?

Now let's do this in baby steps (so we both could learn something).

Can you articulate for us the difference between a West-bank Palestinian and an Arab Israeli aside from an increasing likelihood that both will be "Muslims"?

If you wish, we'll take it from here. If not, we'll let it drop. And both go home and do homework.