China opens door for medical services for Bangladesh citizens

[Nilgiri]

I remain proud to be Bangladeshi by blood. We are an honest, straightforward people; yes, sometimes we egg up our arguments, big deal, this is for you, Nilgiri

I much enjoyed reading your reply here, though now I am totally confused as to what @hellfire "really really" does...because that must be the 3rd hint someone gave..i think @nair , hellfire himself and now you.... and they all pulled in different directions for me heh (within generic veteran of the armed services envelope)...nair was hinting its flying some kind of "best" aircraft iirc.

Friend, I remember an Indian Bengali in a youtube video comment section (BD cultural song...it could have been the national anthem...I forget specifics) saying "maybe one day I will see my relatives (in East Bengal) in afterlife" and a Bangladeshi poster has replied (written in Bengali - which I needed to translate) "Brother, this country is yours too, you are welcome anytime."

You see I am not oblivious at all to certain things (as much my persona here in this subforum might seem to obscure). One of my best friends who I consider basically a brother, is from Bangladesh...and trust me I have helped him with lot of material for use against Indian snobs!

Anyways this post did give me pause to reminisce on assisting two Bangladeshi members here (I dont see them posting anymore sadly!) previously with regards to medical travel of their kin to Bangalore and Vellore respectively.

There is reason I keep an email in my signature still you know (and it might surprise you to know some of the Pakistani members that have approached me there too). It lets me talk in a not so hostile context and to help a fellow brother or sister out when I can....or just cool things down with chit chat about stuff without having to worry about some mean-minded troll or emotional brat ruining a stream of thought!

Oh and I don't mean to compare people directly (I find razpak quite endearing too btw)....just the issue of concept that perception of someone on basis of some or even all their posts....is not necessarily the full truth about them. People post here for all kind of reasons I would think....take a certain doctor we both know here who likes the multi-persona game a bit too much. Well I know another doctor (good friend of mine actually) in real life....and the job he has to do hits him right in the gut almost each day sometimes (he is a pediatrician)...and he resorts to the bottle because he takes it all quite personally when there is a loss. A lot of emotional baggage/psychological stuff can come with a profession one ends up choosing...so I don't judge too harsh in the end what the doc here does....who really knows the why and what and how etc.

So I keep that at the back of my head always, everyone story is bit different...so I do admonish people (I have admonished @Two quite regularly too at times)...and I do receive it in return...but I do not claim to totally understand and judge them (in entirety) for what they do here...and I ask the same in return from them! (It is when I give it but do not receive it, that an issue brews up and boils over basically).

This can be a release for lot of people after all from whatever going on in their real life. The point is hopefully everyone over time and many a thread is learning something they didnt know and broadening their horizons, even if they vociferously disagree with whatever point of view (esp from all the boiling point situations)!.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I much enjoyed reading your reply here, though now I am totally confused as to what @hellfire "really really" does...because that must be the 3rd hint someone gave..i think @nair , hellfire himself and now you.... and they all pulled in different directions for me heh (within generic veteran of the armed services envelope)...nair was hinting its flying some kind of "best" aircraft iirc.

Friend, I remember an Indian Bengali in a youtube video comment section (BD cultural song...it could have been the national anthem...I forget specifics) saying "maybe one day I will see my relatives (in East Bengal) in afterlife" and a Bangladeshi poster has replied (written in Bengali - which I needed to translate) "Brother, this country is yours too, you are welcome anytime."

You see I am not oblivious at all to certain things (as much my persona here in this subforum might seem to obscure). One of my best friends who I consider basically a brother, is from Bangladesh...and trust me I have helped him with lot of material for use against Indian snobs!

Anyways this post did give me pause to reminisce on assisting two Bangladeshi members here (I dont see them posting anymore sadly!) previously with regards to medical travel of their kin to Bangalore and Vellore respectively.

There is reason I keep an email in my signature still you know (and it might surprise you to know some of the Pakistani members that have approached me there too). It lets me talk in a not so hostile context and to help a fellow brother or sister out when I can....or just cool things down with chit chat about stuff without having to worry about some mean-minded troll or emotional brat ruining a stream of thought!

Oh and I don't mean to compare people directly (I find razpak quite endearing too btw)....just the issue of concept that perception of someone on basis of some or even all their posts....is not necessarily the full truth about them. People post here for all kind of reasons I would think....take a certain doctor we both know here who likes the multi-persona game a bit too much. Well I know another doctor (good friend of mine actually) in real life....and the job he has to do hits him right in the gut almost each day sometimes (he is a pediatrician)...and he resorts to the bottle because he takes it all quite personally when there is a loss. A lot of emotional baggage/psychological stuff can come with a profession one ends up choosing...so I don't judge too harsh in the end what the doc here does....who really knows the why and what and how etc.

So I keep that at the back of my head always, everyone story is bit different...so I do admonish people (I have admonished @Two quite regularly too at times)...and I do receive it in return...but I do not claim to totally understand and judge them (in entirety) for what they do here...and I ask the same in return from them! (It is when I give it but do not receive it, that an issue brews up and boils over basically).

This can be a release for lot of people after all from whatever going on in their real life. The point is hopefully everyone over time and many a thread is learning something they didnt know and broadening their horizons, even if they vociferously disagree with whatever point of view (esp from all the boiling point situations)!.

Oh dear.

That was meant in a lighter vein.

Let me again put it in numbered form.

1. Only @hellfire can tell you what he does; he is walking a tightrope, and I don't want to get him into controversies, particularly on a forum when other nationals are looking on. Only jbgt90 (I'm not tagging him so as not to annoy him) who is no longer a participant other than to read knows the inside story as well, sometimes better (he is NOT a veteran, if that implies an old hand, calloused with experience, on the verge of retiring; on the contrary, he is an old hand but of a young age, calloused with experience, certainly, and far, far away from retiring).
2. I respect you enormously and no longer think you have a knife into us. I understand that we are sometimes too full of ourselves, and a prophylactic pin (even the visual construction of that thought is painful!) is needed, and that you wield it with unmatched skill.
3. That does not mean I do not disagree - violently, except in expression or in writing, violently only in terms of the extent - with some of your social views. I am scared to disagree with your economic views, even though they smack of the Milton Friedman school a lot.
4. It helps that you are so calm and unflurried in the face of my completely uncontrolled hand-waving, voice-raising and general exhibitions of all that mature and rational people should not be.
5. Your personal interventions are all the more effective for their being personal and private. Although I have not, sadly, been the beneficiary, ever, there is still hope that you will say the magic mantra that will convert me and make me a better person. Until that magic moment, what you read is what you get

Good fun, this thread, and I was glad to see overblown reputations in the act of puncturing, (using it as a gerund).

My salutes, dear Sir.

 

[Hellfire]

I much enjoyed reading your reply here, though now I am totally confused as to what @hellfire "really really" does...because that must be the 3rd hint someone gave..i think @nair , hellfire himself and now you.... and they all pulled in different directions for me heh (within generic veteran of the armed services envelope)...nair was hinting its flying some kind of "best" aircraft iirc.

Disclaimer: I only comment on things that I have a professional experience of/have a formal degree in/have been trained in.

Yep, they will appear contradictory. Blame my father for making me spend 1 year of my childhood at Ft McClellan and Ft Campbell and getting influenced by US Army's "Army. Be All You Can Be" (1986)

 

[Homo Sapiens]

TBH, Medical treatments in Bangladesh is not that bad either.
Some faulty diagnosis by doctors and some wrong operations done by surgeon gave it a bad name. And worst of it created a trust gap between the patients and Doctors.

I was born prematurely just after 26 weeks, and kept in incubator for like 7 days. But managed to survive. Also underwent appendicitis surgery in Bangladesh without any problem. My father also had an ulcer surgery that went fine. A friend of mine passed USMLE exam with very high score while he was studying his MBBS in Bangladesh. But the news of doctors treating patients wrongly spread over the internet and newspaper and created a fear among patients. An year ago the news of a surgeon leaving bandage inside the body of a patient went viral. Mistakes happen everywhere....but it seems this types of mistake happens more in Bangladesh compared to other countries. And this created a trust gap. In 2016, when my father needed a surgery in his eyes, he could not trust doctors and Bangladeshi hospitals. It's not just of the trust gap though. Several more factors played a part here. Getting an Indian visa became way easier overtime. Many people who got treatment from India, gave positive reviews of it. And the Hospital's administrative culture in India is much better too. In Bangladesh, Hospital administration often misbehaves with the relatives of a patient. In India, I have heard they are much more polite and understanding. Nowadays it is becoming a norm to visit India even for treatments which can be easily done in Bangladesh too.

Bangladeshi patient going to India is too much hyped. Forgetting that we have a vast population. Even if 1% of our patient goes to other country, it would be lakhs. Sometimes ago, I posted a credible article here which state that, every year, Bangladeshi patient make 20 million hospital visit within Bangladesh. That means 98 percent hospital visit by Bangladeshi patients occur's within Bangladesh.

 

[Nilgiri]

Only jbgt90 (I'm not tagging him so as not to annoy him) who is no longer a participant other than to read knows the inside story as well, sometimes better (he is NOT a veteran, if that implies an old hand, calloused with experience, on the verge of retiring; on the contrary, he is an old hand but of a young age, calloused with experience, certainly, and far, far away from retiring).

He was a pleasure to interact with always. He is sorely missed. I remember when I would pester him to give a bit of inside scoop on where Joe is and what Joe is up to etc (during your periodic sojourns away from this villainous mob)....and now its something of the reverse

I am scared to disagree with your economic views, even though they smack of the Milton Friedman school a lot.

You are quite right to fear it..it is the one astra I have honed and perfected.

...just like I have a right ole healthy fear to disagree with your social arguments. In fact much of the time I just concede in the end (though I may not admit it here)....only so much I can do with mind over heart you see.

Oh and I do disagree with much the venerable Friedman has espoused...but this forum so far has not quite reached that level of high debate.

Although I have not, sadly, been the beneficiary, ever, there is still hope that you will say the magic mantra that will convert me and make me a better person. Until that magic moment, what you read is what you get

I like you just the way you are Joe, wouldn't change one bit (I'd tell you a mantra if I knew one that did nothing...just to see what you would do thinking it worked )

Colourful imperfections are after all what make us all interesting.

Yep, they will appear contradictory.

That made me chuckle quite a lot hah.

 

[Sam.]

He was a pleasure to interact with always. He is sorely missed. I remember when I would pester him to give a bit of inside scoop on where Joe is and what Joe is up to etc (during your periodic sojourns away from this villainous mob)....and now its something of the reverse



You are quite right to fear it..it is the one astra I have honed and perfected.

...just like I have a right ole healthy fear to disagree with your social arguments. In fact much of the time I just concede in the end (though I may not admit it here)....only so much I can do with mind over heart you see.

Oh and I do disagree with much the venerable Friedman has espoused...but this forum so far has not quite reached that level of high debate.



I like you just the way you are Joe, wouldn't change one bit (I'd tell you a mantra if I knew one that did nothing...just to see what you would do thinking it worked )

Colourful imperfections are after all what make us all interesting.



That made me chuckle quite a lot hah.

@hellfire is ISI agent and we already established that. If you want to know what he does then look into his mother basement, you will find him there with P1 computer.

 

[Hellfire]

@hellfire is ISI agent and we already established that. If you want to know what he does then look into his mother basement, you will find him there with P1 computer.

You drew that inference from my keeping mum on the nuclear site thread, right?

Psst, I was communicating with my handlers, telling them that their master plan is a flop and Nasr won't do. See, I keep trying to tell the average Pakistani poster here the same.

So, they (my handlers) have come back with a proposal to introduce grenade sized MIRVs!

Decide. Last I was in RAW. What the hell?

 

[Joe Shearer]

@hellfire is ISI agent and we already established that. If you want to know what he does then look into his mother basement, you will find him there with P1 computer.

Oh, don't be silly. I've met the man and learnt his background.

 

[Sam.]

You drew that inference from my keeping mum on the nuclear site thread, right?

Psst, I was communicating with my handlers, telling them that their master plan is a flop and Nasr won't do. See, I keep trying to tell the average Pakistani poster here the same.

So, they (my handlers) have come back with a proposal to introduce grenade sized MIRVs!

Decide. Last I was in RAW. What the hell?

Well you are in RAW(get salary from them) but represent ISI. There are thousands shades in between my friend it was me who is exact opposite of you.

Oh, don't be silly. I've met the man and learnt his background.

Being silly is the most important part of it sir. I have done my job, thank you.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

@hellfire
@Nilgiri

OK, so I stopped laughing. This has to be the funniest thread I've read for some time on PDF and to think that it was Nilgiri's expertly placed jab into, umm, the fleshy part of the thigh, as Wodehouse put it, that brought me to it. I have some comments to make:

1. Nilgiri, notice that Bangladeshis are dead honest even though they have a fiercely independent point of view on a variety of subjects other than this one.
2. In Kolkata, admittedly not the best treatment centre in the world, the entire area between Park Street to the south, Wellesley Street to the east, Chowringhee to the west (all right, perhaps New Market is a better marker) and Dhurrumtola Street to the north (all these are the old names, names have been changed in three of these) is practically a Bangladesh enclave. Language, currency, travel arrangements for bus, train or air to Vellore, Chennai, Bengaluru and Hyderabad, or to Mumbai or New Delhi, or back to Bangladesh are conveniently available. For some types of typically Bangladeshi cuisine, otherwise less frequently encountered in that supercilious ghoti city, this is THE area.
3. In Chennai, in the vicinity of Apollo Hospital, ditto; the quality and availability of Bangladeshi food joints is surprising.
4. Vellore - the same, but has to be seen through the lens of a huge support structure catering to patients from all over India. So you get something familiar and comforting no matter what your own language, or religion, or cultural background.
5. To a lesser degree than these three, so, too, in Bengaluru and Hyderabad.
6. I know that people travel from all of these to Mumbai or to New Delhi for some specific treatment, so those must be equally supportive.
7. So much for the supporting milieu. I doubt strongly that this is possible to replicate anywhere else in the world. That will explain the people-friendliness of these treatment centres.
8. The same thing applies to Pakistani patients. They feel comfortable in Indian treatment centres of the type mentioned above because there is no steep cultural gradient to be overcome in Indian centres for Pakistanis, even in the supposedly 'alien' south India.
9. Coming to the quality of medical staff, they are outstanding. There is no point in trotting out the long list of doctors who have practices abroad, very high-profile practices, who also spend time in India on professional practice.
10. Medical education is cheaper in China than in India. It is also more dicey. A friend set up an entire business shipping out dozens of medical students to China. The shit hit the fan when they returned and applied for jobs and were rejected in very large numbers and percentages. These 'foreign-trained' students are very poorly trained.
11. I laughed till the tears came at one member's juvenile attempts at impressing us all with pictures of nice large buildings to support his thesis that medical treatment was far more advanced in China than in India. I wish it were possible to take him to Medicity in Gurgaon. Or to the dozens of 50 to 100 bedded hospitals in Hyderabad, that Nilgiri might have seen, and that @hellfire can testify to, professionally and personally.
12. Interventions by Two and Beijing Walker were the best part of the exchange. Beijing Walker cannot get into his head the difference between offering a high quality of medical treatment to the entire country's population versus offering a world class quality of medical treatment to those who can come to the facility from anywhere in the world.
13. It isn't about cost, either. Costs in these hot-spots are among the lowest in the world, apples to apples; a complicated treatment in India will cost more than a simple treatment in India, and will continue to cost more than a simple treatment abroad.
14. So, wading through the clutter, Indian students pay fortunes to get medical education in India, or lesser fees to get trained abroad; then they turn to practice, and are accepted for registration in a differential manner. Indian students get accepted to very high percentages in these blind tests; students trained in the western world also get immediate acceptance. I have had a close relative come out with flying colours from an East German medical training programme, and he was the most hapless idiot to practice (the family believes that he killed my grandmother, but he himself has passed away, so Nil Nisi and all that).
15. A medical education in China is not a great thing for an Indian medical student, while it might turn out to be brilliant for a Chinese student.
16. At the end of receiving excellent training at a high cost, Indian doctors gravitate to the shiny new corporate hospitals that earn gazillion bucks treating patients at world levels for reasonable costs but very large numbers.
17. Indian patients get good treatment when they can get to it. The problem is that there are overwhelming numbers, and the number of hospitals and doctors could grow ten times and not exceed requirements.
18. So what is so good about the Indian healthcare system when it comes to offering very advanced treatment for relatively few overseas patients? The answer is that it has become an autonomous system and does not need any external inputs any more to run on under its own steam.
19. What is not so good about the Indian healthcare system? That the benefits cannot be transferred to each and every Indian citizen needing healthcare, as they deserve.
20. What else do we take away from this? Seriatim:
    1. I thought what I thought about one Chinese member in person, but Nilgiri will be unhappy if I say out loud what I thought/think. I'm only glad that now hellfire will know exactly what I mean.
    2. I found another Chinese member showing up in his true colours, an obstinate, stubborn, xenophobe with a poor understanding of concepts in the abstract, and an arrogance that has begun to be the hall-mark of the Chinese. Always thought he was over-rated.
    3. Razpak is streets ahead of others mentioned by identity in the thread.
    4. Nilgiri and hellfire are the bestest Indian members on board.
    5. I remain proud to be Bangladeshi by blood. We are an honest, straightforward people; yes, sometimes we egg up our arguments, big deal, this is for you, Nilgiri
    6. It was noticeable that Pakistani members had the good sense to leave this thread alone. The exceptions were the hapless and unlucky ones who fall in their bathrooms and break their hips. Best let alone.

Parting shot: @Nilgiri, you must know already who pays @hellfire his salary (hint: see below). Guess what he is paid to do!

View attachment 527066
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I believe that the Indian education level has improved. But India still needs to work hard, arrogant and deceiving itself is fun... It is unreliable to build a skyscraper in the desert. in a country where basic education is not universal. is elite education really something to be proud of?

I know that some Indians can't understand modesty and prudence. I have even seen them create "stories" and "data" one after another. Even in this thread, some Indian members are the first to attack...

Anyhow; congratulations on the
improvement of Indian medical level.

 

[Mage]

Bangladeshi patient going to India is too much hyped. Forgetting that we have a vast population. Even if 1% of our patient goes to other country, it would be lakhs. Sometimes ago, I posted a credible article here which state that, every year, Bangladeshi patient make 20 million hospital visit within Bangladesh. That means 98 percent hospital visit by Bangladeshi patients occur's within Bangladesh.

The point is, patients Don't go to India to treat fever. They go when they need something critical.

How many people with money would do an open-heart surgery in Bangladesh and how many would prefer to do it in India? Even if 20% of them prefers to go to a different country for this treatment, this speaks badly of our medical care.

Another point is no hospital in Bangladesh would be on par with Vellore in India. And the cost in Vellore is probably lower than Apollo, Square or LabAid hospital..although I'm not sure about the cost nowadays.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The point is, patients Don't go to India to treat fever. They go when they need something critical.

How many people with money would do an open-heart surgery in Bangladesh and how many would prefer to do it in India? Even if 20% of them prefers to go to a different country for this treatment, this speaks badly of our medical care.

Another point is no hospital in Bangladesh would be on par with Vellore in India. And the cost in Vellore is probably lower than Apollo, Square or LabAid hospital..although I'm not sure about the cost nowadays.

Given that 1/6th of global population live in India and it has 3rd largest economy in the world, India is bound to have some very good quality hospital. Otherwise it would look very odd. And Bangladeshis are taking that advantage of cheap, affordable, quality treatment available in the next door neighbor. Not only Bangladesh, but patient from other countries, even from Russia and Eastern Europe coming to India. But that does not mean, Indian population as a whole have better access to health care facilities compare to Bangladesh. Having a few very good hospital in big cities and reaching health care facilities to the grass root level are two different things. Unfortunately many Indian confuse between this two. Bangladesh may not have same quality tertiary hospitals like India, but BD is more sucessful at reaching the health care facilities to the general population. Which is evident from comparatively better health and demographic indicators in Bangladesh than India. But Indians think health care in Bangladesh is 'non-existent' and all Bangladeshis are dependent on Indian hospital. My objection is to this perception, not against the quality of treatment available in Vellore, Mumbai or Delhi.

 

[Nilgiri]

but BD is more sucessful at reaching the health care facilities to the general population.

Wrong. Bangladesh is much better at concocting propaganda about it (and how BD fares in corruption and institutional credibility rankings speaks volumes about this more than all of you lot here EVER could). Who knows what the reality really is? You yourself have been caught lieing here multiple times.

I mean just look at yourself, spending all this time on this forum when you say you are doctor (and could instead be helping rectify the trend of BD people not trusting you for basic things).

There is reason why awoke, neutral BD posters here have their opinion of you, that you should introspect:

that idiotic traitor @Homo Sapiens

and that goes for the idiot giving you a thumbs up as well....purchasing his bike from India instead of giving some coin to glorious STRONK Walton.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Two you may be interested to read (you were asking about the level and size earlier):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indian-economy-news-updates.27787/page-515#post-11027741