China offers to finance 30 per cent of India’s infrastructure development plan

[bolo]

Yep. No one is asking India to give up their sensitive sectors to us anyway. I don't think anyone in the Indian government is that stupid in any case, with the possible exception of Rahul.

We want returns on our money, we don't want it rotting in US treasury bonds. India wants investment, this is pure business based on mutual gains.

I think you missed the point that eventhough USD may be worthless, but they are the reserve currency and has the strongest military. If they say it's worth money, it's worth money. Who is going to argue with them? Indians?

Imo, Indian rupees is depreciating and it's going to be a bad long term return for the Chinese investors. Why don't india just use Western infra companies? Is it because they know it ain't worth it to invest in india?

 

[Edison Chen]

Why would you want to upgrade their infrastructure to potentially use against you in a war?

Bro, I can understand your concern. 1)The majority infrastructures here is most cases would be for civilian purpose, it's not a threat to China. For example, I don't think building a viaduct in the city will threatens China's national security, on the contrary, GOI will also restricts China from entering in military field.
2) I don't know much about military, but I'm pretty sure a long range missile or 5th generation fighter could easily destroy and palsy enemy‘s command system, to accomplish the mission. So infrastructure will help little in this situation.
3)The war between China and Vietnam/Phillipines is possibly forecasted, but with India is not possible.

China is diversifying their holding by buying mining and petro companies and buying gold. BTW, why don't they take the $4t and invest in military and science R&D.
Investing in India is not a good option as I mentioned earlier.

I remember Foreign exchange reserve holding could only consist of foreign currency, securities or checks something. Correct me is I'm wrong.

When goods in circulation increased, the money should also follow up, or there will be a sharp rise of interest rate that harm our business. The fact is Chinese Yuan is not the reserve currency, if we want to increase the supply of money, we need to increase the reserve currency like US dollars or treasury bonds equivalent. Money in short happens sometimes.

 

[bolo]

Bro, I can understand your concern. 1)The majority infrastructures here is most cases would be for civilian purpose, it's not a threat to China. For example, I don't think building a viaduct in the city will threatens China's national security, on the contrary, GOI will also restricts China from entering in military field.
2) I don't know much about military, but I'm pretty sure a long range missile or 5th generation fighter could easily destroy and palsy enemy‘s command system, to accomplish the mission. So infrastructure will help little in this situation.
3)The war between China and Vietnam/Phillipines is possibly forecasted, but with India is not possible.



I remember Foreign exchange reserve holding could only consist of foreign currency, securities or checks something. Correct me is I'm wrong.

When goods in circulation increased, the money should also follow up, or there will be a sharp rise of interest rate that harm our business. The fact is Chinese Yuan is not the reserve currency, if we want to increase the supply of money, we need to increase the reserve currency like US dollars or treasury bonds equivalent. Money in short happens sometimes.

You got some valid points but building infrastructure means building roads, bridges, etc which allows easier troop and armoured vehicle transports during war time. I'm wondering why western companies are lining up waiting for this "pie?"

War between China and India is possible in th future. You can't have two giants living in the same area peacefully for two long. One has to give in.
FX reserve, I believe are just US bonds held by China. China cannot unleash them too quickly or it deflates their value so they sell it slowly and use those funds for something else.

 

[wolfschanzze]

Still in draft - but there is a point on reconstruction.The plan is old as well. Simple put - take Dharavi for example. There is say 25 sqkm of land filled with single storey shacks or dwellings. It says about replacing every 250 shacks with 2 apartment buildings of 100 flats each. Often the slum dwellers rent out the flats and go back to the shanties. To prevent it happening this time, the shanties will be demolished immediately after evacuation. Also proposed is that the later buildings will be built in Dharavi itself. The land cleared up will be turned into a massive eco park.

My issue was that these people are going to be pretty much forced to shift to these apartments. It is the moral thing to do - true, but there is a chance other parties may start playing dirty politics. Dharavi is also unfortunately an industry. There are major gangs that milks these places for funding NGOs, slum tourism etc.

We should rout them out, for that we need absolute majority!

So chinese will forfeit the insurance just in case the invested infra is hit upon by chinese missiles?

If yes i will give all future infra projects in Delhi to China.

Cmo'n be reasonable , nor we want war nor do they!

 

[Edison Chen]

You got some valid points but building infrastructure means building roads, bridges, etc which allows easier troop and armoured vehicle transports during war time. I'm wondering why western companies are lining up waiting for this "pie?"

War between China and India is possible in th future. You can't have two giants living in the same area peacefully for two long. One has to give in.
FX reserve, I believe are just US bonds held by China. China cannot unleash them too quickly or it deflates their value so they sell it slowly and use those funds for something else.

Yep it's true two giants can't keep peace for too long just like USSR and USA. But even during the cold war, they still refrained themselves from going to a nuclear war, because they fear each other. Given the current situation here, China and India are not so fiercely confronted with each other in many fields, I mean there is no need. China's economy boom is challenging the western now, so our true enemy in current stage is Japan and USA. We might have small conflicts with India, but both country can't dive too far, because the western will be the only beneficiary.

Many SME located in eastern coast are now strongly suggesting Chinese Yuan to be internationalized. So domestic pressure is there, I can predict in next 2 decades, CNY will replace Japanese Yen as the new reserve currency. At that time, we won't be afraid of the depreciation of USD any more.

 

[JanjaWeed]

No wonder! Looks like Chinese are quite confident about Modi's chances....

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why would you want to upgrade their infrastructure to potentially use against you in a war?

There is hardly any threat perception from India.

No one believes that India could successfully attack UPWARDS into the Tibetan Plateau, the highest mountain range on Earth (where we have all the high ground), against the PLA which is multiple times more powerful. It just doesn't make any sense, even the Soviet Red Army at the height of their power would not be able to pull off something like that.

There is far more threat perception from America and Japan, yet those are two of our largest trading partners. We didn't become the world's largest trading nation by only trading with friendly countries, we did it by doing business with everyone.

Even if it makes only 1% more profit than US treasury bonds, it will be a far better alternative.

And it will most certainly make more than that, considering the massive gap that exists in the Indian infrastructure sector. Gap in the market = Big opportunity and returns.

 

[venu309]

India should consider this in positive way... If we are asking MFN from Pakistan & barring investments of Chinese then I'll say we are a hypocrate one...

By the way after long time Indians & Chinese member talking in proper menner in PDF.... may be only for this thread but it's good to communicate like this manner..

You are right, it was good to read such healthy debate/discussion between Indians & the Chinese. I would normally avoid Indo-Chinese threads because they are more often than not troll fests. I hope we have similar positive discussions in future also.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You are right, it was good to read such healthy debate/discussion between Indians & the Chinese. I would normally avoid Indo-Chinese threads because they are more often than not troll fests. I hope we have similar positive discussions in future also.

One thing I think we can agree on, is that we both like money.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India needs this.

Up to 30% of the trillion? Jesus H...

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

India needs this.

Only because of the shocking mismanagement of the Indian economy by the Congress party.

Everyone knows that India's biggest weakness right now is infrastructure.

Yet Congress moves SO slowly on infrastructure.

And when we offer to build it for them in a business deal with mutual benefits, they turn it down! LOL, what are they playing at? Do they have some weird socialist aversion towards economic development?

If they said "No we don't want foreigners doing it, we'll do it ourselves" - that would be fine. Except they don't seem to want to do it themselves either, so nothing gets done?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I cant believe they're serious about investing that much.....

Half of that was supposed to come from the Indian government. China investing even 50-100 billion is a huge help..

God I hope Rahul doesnt win..

 

[priti]

$3.8 trillion is just the main reserves.

The CIC (China Investment Corporation) arm of our currency reserves is worth over $600 billion by itself in addition.

Putting money in US treasury bonds is worthless. The return is barely enough to even cover inflation. More money should be diverted to the CIC arm of our currency reserves, for use in investing overseas.

India can accept our offer or turn it down, depending on whether they see it as a net positive for their economy or not.

Don't see any reason why it should be turned down. This should be seen as a practical business deal rather than emotional nationalistic one. If China didn't see any gain from this they would not make the offer. If India don't see benefit or think its too much risk they wont take the offer. Financing is very common in the world these days

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@Chinese-Dragon

Is this the most China plans to invest in a single country? In a rather short period of time..

 

[Developereo]

I think you missed the point that eventhough USD may be worthless, but they are the reserve currency and has the strongest military. If they say it's worth money, it's worth money. Who is going to argue with them? Indians?

Imo, Indian rupees is depreciating and it's going to be a bad long term return for the Chinese investors. Why don't india just use Western infra companies? Is it because they know it ain't worth it to invest in india?

China spending money to develop Indian infrastructure is a short-term thinking which will backfire in the long term.

If China needs to invest somewhere, it should do so in Indonesia. Indonesia is looking more favorable as a long term investment. Also, it sits right next to the Malacca Straits and China needs to increase influence in that region. A bonus would be that a strong Indonesia would throw a major kink in the US-Australia alliance being formed against China in the region.

It has effectively become a China Vs Japan battle in India now

Ding ding ding!
Give this man a cigar!

You are the only one who figured out China's real motive in all this. It has nothing to do with keeping Chinese factories busy or diverting Chinese reserves.