China mobilizes over 100 warships for S.China Sea drill

[cnleio]

Is that all?

Japanese navy is not very impressive at all for all the hype it gets.

Japan side:
Current total 49x destroyers (non-FFG class in Japan), main combat warships:
4x Kongo-class DDG
2x Atago-class DDG
4x Akizuki-class DDG
9x Murasame-class DDG
5x Takanami-class DDG
3x Tachikaze-class DDG
2x Hatakaze-class DDG
... others r mainly anti-sub DDG less air-defense capacity.

China side:
Current main combat warships:
6x 052C-class DDG
1x 052D-class (1x 052D sea trial) DDG
2x 051C-class DDG
2x 052B-class DDG
4x Sovremenny-class DDG
2x 052A-class DDG
2x 054-class FFG
22x 054A-class FFG
... rest cheap & old 50x 051-class, 053H-class, 056-class warships not count.

@Nihonjin1051 If there's a wrong for the data listed here, pls correct me. Ths !

附录:日本自卫军[海军]：驱逐舰：[49艘]
　　“村雨”级：[9艘]
　　日本海军101号舰“村雨”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军102号舰“春雨”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军103号舰“夕立”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军104号舰“雾雨”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军105号舰“电”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军106号舰“五月雨”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军107号舰“雷”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军108号舰“曙”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军109号舰“有明”号“村雨”级驱逐舰
“高波”级：[5艘]
　　日本海军110号舰“高波”号“高波”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军111号舰“大波”号“高波”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军112号舰“卷波”号“高波”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军113号舰“涟”号“高波”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军114号舰“凉波”号“高波”级驱逐舰
“初雪”级：[12艘]
　　日本海军122号舰“初雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军123号舰“白雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军124号舰“峰雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军125号舰“泽雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军126号舰“滨雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军127号舰“矶雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军128号舰“春雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军129号舰“山雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军130号舰“松雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军131号舰“濑户雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军132号舰“朝雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军133号舰“岛雪”号“初雪”级驱逐舰[现改为TV3513训练舰]
“榛名”级：[2艘]
　　日本海军141号舰“榛名”号“榛名”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军142号舰“比睿”号“榛名”级驱逐舰

“白根”级：[2艘]
　　日本海军143号舰“白根”号“白根”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军144号舰“鞍马”号“白根”级驱逐舰

“朝雾”级：[8艘]
　　日本海军151号舰“朝雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军152号舰“山雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰[现改为TV3515训练舰]
　　日本海军153号舰“夕雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军154号舰“天雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军155号舰“滨雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军156号舰“濑户雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军157号舰“泽雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军158号舰“海雾”号“朝雾”级驱逐舰

“太刀风”级：[3艘]
　　日本海军168号舰“太刀风”号“太刀风”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军169号舰“朝风”号“太刀风”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军170号舰“泽风”号“太刀风”级驱逐舰

“旗风”级：[2艘]
　　日本海军171号舰“旗风”号“旗风”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军172号舰“岛风”号“旗风”级驱逐舰

“金刚”级：[4艘]
　　日本海军173号舰“金刚”号“金刚”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军174号舰“雾岛”号“金刚”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军175号舰“妙高”号“金刚”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军176号舰“鸟海”号“金刚”级驱逐舰

“爱宕”级：[2艘]
　　日本海军177号舰“爱拓”号“爱拓”级驱逐舰
　　日本海军178号舰“铃谷”号“爱拓”级驱逐舰

 

[Shotgunner51]

Japan side:
Current total 49x destroyers (non-FFG class in Japan), main combat warships:
4x Kongo-class DDG
2x Atago-class DDG
4x Akizuki-class DDG
9x Murasame-class DDG
5x Takanami-class DDG
3x Tachikaze-class DDG
2x Hatakaze-class DDG
... others r mainly anti-sub DDG less air-defense capacity.

China side:
Current main combat warships:
6x 052C-class DDG
1x 052D-class (1x 052D sea trial) DDG
2x 051C-class DDG
2x 052B-class DDG
4x Sovremenny-class DDG
2x 052A-class DDG
2x 054-class FFG
22x 054A-class FFG
... rest cheap & old 50x 051-class, 053H-class, 056-class warships not count.

@Nihonjin1051 If there's a wrong for the data listed here, pls correct me. Ths !

For Type 052D, I think DDG-172 "Kunming" is already inactive duty. Has DDG-173 "Changsha" finished sea trial and commissioned? I read DDG-174 "Hefei", 175 "Yinchuan", 117, 118, 119 have been launched, how's the fitting or sea-trial progress?

Also there is one 051B now under refitting.

 

[cnleio]

For Type 052D, I think DDG-172 "Kunming" is already inactive duty. Has DDG-173 "Changsha" finished sea trial and commissioned? I read DDG-174 "Hefei", 175 "Yinchuan", 117, 118, 119 have been launched, how's the fitting or sea-trial progress?

Also there is one 051B now under refitting.

It doesn't matter ... we all knew until to 2018 China Navy can have total 8~10x new 052D DDGs, and 6x 052C DDGs ... will be more than Japan's air-defense DDGs, even according to building plan Japan will add 2x new Atago-class and 2x new Akizuki-class ... new 055-class DDG also can break the record.

If Japan wanna keep the advantage in air-defense DDG numbers, they at least need to build 2x new air-defense DDG each year ... or in 2018 China serving numbers of 052C/D and 055 DDGs will surpass Japan Navy, no doubt in 2018.

 

[Shotgunner51]

It doesn't matter ... we all knew until to 2018 China Navy can have total 8~10x new 052D DDGs, and 6x 052C DDGs ... will be more than Japan's air-defense DDGs, even according to building plan Japan will add 2x new Atago-class and 2x new Akizuki-class ... new 055-class DDG also can break the record.

If Japan wanna keep the advantage in air-defense DDG numbers, they at least need to build 2x new air-defense DDG each year ... or in 2018 China serving numbers of 052C/D and 055 DDGs will surpass Japan Navy, no doubt in 2018.

Right bro, Type 052D is the chosen class for this generation of DDG after many trials (055 is next gen), and PLAN will get at least 12 of them by 2018.

And with progressive refitting of the six older DDG classes (052C, 052B, 052, 051C, 051B, 956), PLAN gets another 17 capable ships.

These DDG, together with a good number of 054/054A/054B-class FFG, should suffice basic requirement of main surface combatant for the current generation.

 

[Aepsilons]

All i can say is that China will keep on doing what she's doing. We can talk in diplomatic speech all we want, but that will not change the policies of our respective nations. And as much as I was a fan and supporter of integration in the past, i have become quite pessimistic of that possibility. At least in today's current geopolitical and geostrategic climate.

I just don't know.

@Shotgunner51

 

[Shotgunner51]

All i can say is that China will keep on doing what she's doing. We can talk in diplomatic speech all we want, but that will not change the policies of our respective nations. And as much as I was a fan and supporter of integration in the past, i have become quite pessimistic of that possibility. At least in today's current geopolitical and geostrategic climate.

I just don't know.

@Shotgunner51

Reinvesting a healthy share of domestic revenue on defense will contribute to national interests when a country has huge base of heavy industries and has positive NIIP. China and Japan have both so it is normal for the two to have a fair scale of military establishment that commensurate with their respective size of national interests.

Geo-strategically speaking, both face far bigger extra-regional challenges than intra-regional ones. I am still a fan and supporter of regional integration between Japan, Korean peninsula, and the greater China zone, only then the region can prosper and grow strong. Hey bro I am not even trying to be diplomatic here, just that East Asians really need to eye on the big picture!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Even US Navy will find it tough to compete with China in the SCS and ECS.

Too soon buddy.

Be patriotic, not blind.

 

[Place Of Space]

Too soon buddy.

Be patriotic, not blind.

In Chinese internet slang recently, there is a joke: "you need to have a dream, if by any chance, you meet with the ghost, and the dream comes ture?". I hate English, the joke tranlated into English is not laughable at all. 。梦想还是要有的，万一碰见鬼，实现了呢？lol

 

[IsaacNewton]

All i can say is that China will keep on doing what she's doing. We can talk in diplomatic speech all we want, but that will not change the policies of our respective nations. And as much as I was a fan and supporter of integration in the past, i have become quite pessimistic of that possibility. At least in today's current geopolitical and geostrategic climate.

I just don't know.

@Shotgunner51

I think China has been pretty reserved.

The CCP is in quite a dilemma in SCS.

The CCP is doing as much as it can to ease tension in SCS, but at the same time, they have to appear tough for domestic audience. IMO, the only way to deescalate tension is to let the Chinese side "save face." Let them flaunt their strength in SCS as long as they know in their mind to never cross the red line.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Too soon buddy.

Be patriotic, not blind.

There are many schools of thought on this topic, e.g. Air-Sea Battle, A Co-operative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower, A2/AD Capabilities, etc., if interested welcome to discuss more in other threads.

The United States' New Maritime Strategy: A Quick Look

@Beidou2020

I think China has been pretty reserved.

Yes I agree with you on this. The chance of American soldiers and Chinese soldiers cutting each others' throat again like decades ago is very remote. Military conflict is always the last option, nowadays despite being strategic rivals, the two countries do have a lot more to trade on a global level, leaving much wider room of maneuvering. Peace!

 

[55100864]

Good, China need to first liberate the PLA, if the People's Liberation army is not liberated, how can they liberate people and protect the country. PLA is still too self restrained and too defence oriented.

 

[LowPost]

Yes I agree with you on this. The chance of American soldiers and Chinese soldiers cutting each others' throat again like decades ago is very remote. Military conflict is always the last option, nowadays despite being strategic rivals, the two countries have a lot more to trade on a global level, leaving much wider room of maneuvering. Peace!

Very true, if the rivalry were to escalate into an outright military conflict there would always be the chance of mutually assured destruction which has already prevented the Cold War to develop into a hot one. Now I'm going to leave a quotation by Cicero for today:

''I prefer the most unfair peace to the most righteous war.''

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So currently they have 10 AESA DDGs?

Currently, they have 6 Arleigh Burke DDGs, that's all the treasures for their naval asset.

No real aircraft carrier, no single nuclear sub.

 

[j20blackdragon]

All i can say is that China will keep on doing what she's doing. We can talk in diplomatic speech all we want, but that will not change the policies of our respective nations. And as much as I was a fan and supporter of integration in the past, i have become quite pessimistic of that possibility. At least in today's current geopolitical and geostrategic climate.

I just don't know.

@Shotgunner51

Why does China need to integrate with an island chain when we have access to the vast natural resources of the Asian continent?

China is going west not east.

 

[Aepsilons]

Japan side:
Current total 49x destroyers (non-FFG class in Japan), main combat warships:
4x Kongo-class DDG
2x Atago-class DDG
4x Akizuki-class DDG
9x Murasame-class DDG
5x Takanami-class DDG
3x Tachikaze-class DDG
2x Hatakaze-class DDG
... others r mainly anti-sub DDG less air-defense capacity.

China side:
Current main combat warships:
6x 052C-class DDG
1x 052D-class (1x 052D sea trial) DDG
2x 051C-class DDG
2x 052B-class DDG
4x Sovremenny-class DDG
2x 052A-class DDG
2x 054-class FFG
22x 054A-class FFG
... rest cheap & old 50x 051-class, 053H-class, 056-class warships not count.

@Nihonjin1051 If there's a wrong for the data listed here, pls correct me. Ths !

A more accurate one:

Shirane Class : 2

Hatsuyuki Class: 8

Hatakaze Class: 2

Asagiri Class: 8

Kongo Class: 4

Atago Class: 2 (+ 2) = 4

Murasame Class: 9

Takanami Class: 5

Hyuga Class: 2

Osumi Class: 3

Izumo Class: 1 (+1) = 2

Abukuma Class: 6

----


Submarines:

• Harushio Class = 7
• Oyashio Class = 11
• Soryu Class = 8 (+8) = 16

+ support and auxiliary ships, + torpedo ships

Current total 49x destroyers (non-FFG class in Japan), main combat warships:

55 + Destroyers, and about 34 subs.

Our goal is to maintain a Destroyer Fleet of about 60-65 warships.

@cnleio ,

Let's dance, bro...

Because land route costs money, its not economical. Sea route remains preferable for the indefinite future.

Anyways, @cnleio , so basically, roughly, each Fleet in the JMSDF (we have 4) will have anywhere around 12-14 destroyers, have 1-2 light carriers (a mix of either Osumi-class, Hyuga Class, Izumo class), and anywhere between 8-9 submarines, + auxiliary and support ships, anti-mine ships, torpedo ships.

• 1st Escort Fleet --- JMSDF
• 2nd Escort Fleet --- JMSDF
• 3rd Escort Fleet --- JMSDF
• 4th Escort Fleet --- JMSDF