China may export J-10B fighters with Russian AL31FN-S3 engines to Pakistan

[Skywalker]

lol 30-40 years back we have destroyed you by broke you into 2 . If you give us another excuse to divide again, we dont loose that opportunity dont worry ...

BTW now India spend for China and not for PAK, that's why your leader start ranting about Nuke every where and their why? Reason they know they cant stand against India in conventional war .


what the use of those 4 sqd when u still have to depended on F-16 for bombing. In last 5 years India inducted 5 Su-30MKI new Sq.

lol , When India induct Tejas it can do all things like your F-16 can do , India dont pick half baked cakes.


Time changes , Need changes , Number depend on threat perception, Now you can judge , what level of threat IAF can see ,so that it has to reduce the number.

Well try crossing the border with your Souter douper su 30 and we will tell you which one will be defending the skies. I can only expect an idiot Indian to compare a non operational teja with a war proven machine like f16 which can rip apart anything in your inventory.

 

[zebra7]

Well try crossing the border with your Souter douper su 30 and we will tell you which one will be defending the skies. I can only expect an idiot Indian to compare a non operational teja with a war proven machine like f16 which can rip apart anything in your inventory.

Great first you are not in any position to challenge a country and the country you are challenging don't think that your challenging voice is a single bit of importance to make the decision to cross the border.

Second you are not the new member who should be told that its Hal Tejas and not Teja.

Third care to explain what makes you think PAF can rip apart anything in Indian inventory.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Great first you are not in any position to challenge a country and the country you are challenging don't think that your challenging voice is a single bit of importance to make the decision to cross the border.

Second you are not the new member who should be told that its Hal Tejas and not Teja.

Third care to explain what makes you think PAF can rip apart anything in Indian inventory.

Care to explain why you care so much for the opinion of the citizen of a country which according to your own opinion cant even challenge you .. ..

Secondly why so angry over "teja" mate ... look at it this way .. if it doesn't become part of your airforce ... it is catchy enough to be the name of the next item number in one of your movies ... so Chill!

Lastly ... the onus is on you to prove that we can't do anything .. since ofcourse you disagree with what @Skywalker said .. The mere fact that the big bad IAF with its Star wars Sukhoi MKI ran the other way with its tail between its legs ... when the politicians were calling for surgical strikes ... should be an eye opener for you guys who think that the IAF can easily tear apart the PAF ...

 

[zebra7]

Care to explain why you care so much for the opinion of the citizen of a country which according to your own opinion cant even challenge you .. ..

Secondly why so angry over "teja" mate ... look at it this way .. if it doesn't become part of your airforce ... it is catchy enough to be the name of the next item number in one of your movies ... so Chill!

Lastly ... the onus is on you to prove that we can't do anything .. since ofcourse you disagree with what @Skywalker said .. The mere fact that the big bad IAF with its Star wars Sukhoi MKI ran the other way with its tail between its legs ... when the politicians were calling for surgical strikes ... should be an eye opener for you guys who think that the IAF can easily tear apart the PAF ...

Since you have decided to answer on behalf of someone why don't you give some visionary explanation and insight story update on that.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Since you have decided to answer on behalf of someone why don't you give some visionary explanation and insight story update on that.

The irony of the situation being ... you yourself addressed someone who was not talking to you ... yet your pointing fingers at me ...

I do like your usual sarcasm though ... the draw back being its almost as if all your posts are like

"*sarcasm* .. explain this to me " ...

its good to have some points of your own ... eg. I gave you the point of IAF deciding to keep its tush in its airspace after PAF took stand and said we'll respond to your surgical strikes ... if that isn't answer enough for you then I dont know what is ...

but please continue to enlighten us with your endless list of questions which have in one form or another already been discussed to the death if you just bothered to read ...

 

[zebra7]

The irony of the situation being ... you yourself addressed someone who was not talking to you ... yet your pointing fingers at me ...

I do like your usual sarcasm though ... the draw back being its almost as if all your posts are like

"*sarcasm* .. explain this to me " ...

its good to have some points of your own ... eg. I gave you the point of IAF deciding to keep its tush in its airspace after PAF took stand and said we'll respond to your surgical strikes ... if that isn't answer enough for you then I dont know what is ...

but please continue to enlighten us with your endless list of questions which have in one form or another already been discussed to the death if you just bothered to read ...

Oh thanks for the compliments and I too have all your post specially liked the way how you calculate the chinese and indian assets and long underline analysis and I was expecting same with you on his point which he make to prove his points about destroying everything Indians have in their inventory. And about my correction note of Tejas instead of Teja your assumption/analysis is showing your ignorance of understanding. Go ahead and prove your clients claim.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Oh thanks for the compliments and I too have all your post specially liked the way how you calculate the chinese and indian assets and long underline analysis and I was expecting same with you on his point which he make to prove his points about destroying everything Indians have in their inventory. And about my correction note of Tejas instead of Teja your assumption/analysis is showing your ignorance of understanding. Go ahead and prove your clients claim.

Well thank you for proving my point for me ...

that infact .. you can't add any point of your own to a debate ... your just picking points like "ohh this point didn't make sense etc. etc." while you dont put up a single point/claim as to show how and continue with your rant of ...

"prove this prove this .. I have another question .. now prove this .. "

As far as my ignorance goes, I will make jokes as I please ... Hal Tejas or Teja or whatever it is .. isn't even able to replace those aging Mig-21's of yours ... the jet that is nicknamed the flying coffin ... the aircraft whose inception goes back to the 1950's and your entire defense is " your ignorant" ... continue living in your world in which every body is an ignorant ... simply because they don't agree with you ...

 

[zebra7]

Well thank you for proving my point for me ...

that infact .. you can't add any point of your own to a debate ... your just picking points like "ohh this point didn't make sense etc. etc." while you dont put up a single point/claim as to show how and continue with your rant of ...

"prove this prove this .. I have another question .. now prove this .. "

Do you always want to prove that you very intelligent because all your post are very confusing and involves very complex logic's. You are the one who is sticking your nose here and now if you have stuck your nose just give facts pointwise to prove your clients logic and his claim. Don't try to be smart in moving the point from here and there. And one important question do you find satisfaction and amusement in talking too much?????

 

[Syed Hussain]

5 years you wasted in dreaming for J10 and now another 5 years for dreaming Su-35?

Seems like that... no matter how much it looks embarrassing...

 

[abdulbarijan]

Do you always want to prove that you very intelligent because all your post are very confusing and involves very complex logic's. You are the one who is sticking your nose here and now if you have stuck your nose just give facts pointwise to prove your clients logic and his claim. Don't try to be smart in moving the point from here and there. And one important question do you find satisfaction and amusement in talking too much?????

As far as sticking my nose in to this debate .. you did the exact same thing when you got involved in the debate right .. where are your points ?? .. or is it because you don't have any points to contribute at all which is why your entire defense is ...

"*sarcasm* that point seemed wrong to me .. but I cant prove it wrong .. so prove that its right"

Well try crossing the border with your Souter douper su 30 and we will tell you which one will be defending the skies. I can only expect an idiot Indian to compare a non operational teja with a war proven machine like f16 which can rip apart anything in your inventory.

Since you were nice enough to ask to prove the point, the F-16 does have the potential to overcome anything the IAF fields today ..Briefly speaking since obviously a detailed answer is a little too much for your little processor to handle ... the F-16 negates the BVR advantage the IAF held, operates among the best BVR weapons in the world in the Aim-120 C5, has a low Radar cross section compared to a standard RCS fighter (taken @ 5m2), has advanced avionics and EW equipment ... is considered one of the most successful and THE BEST dog fighter of this generation, add in nearly 3 decades of experience in the F-16 by the PAF pilots .... Add in the conditions the IAF has to face ... with a huge air space to defend ... where it has PLAAF on one side ... hence contingencies will have to be in place ... add in the nuclear element .... in such conditions where you can't cross a redline otherwise it goes nuclear, when you pit in an F-16 under our doctrine in use ... not only is it in of itself a big threat to anything the IAF fields (because of the reasons mentioned) ... you add in the SAMS, MANPADS, C4I and an AWACS for greater situational awareness ... to add to that your facing an airforce with the majority of the fleet being easily maintainable, meaning lesser turn around times, more availability and most of the time when the IAFcrosses in to the airspace of PAF .. it is much more likely to face a 4th generation fighter ...

Other then that .. you can see what happened with you guys at Red flag 08 ... or the fact that around the time where you were threatening for surgical strikes ... your precious MKI's and M2K's got locked on by PAF F-16's which at that point weren't even BVR capable ...

 

[zebra7]

As far as sticking my nose in to this debate .. you did the exact same thing when you got involved in the debate right .. where are your points ?? .. or is it because you don't have any points to contribute at all which is why your entire defense is ...

"*sarcasm* that point seemed wrong to me .. but I cant prove it wrong .. so prove that its right"




Since you were nice enough to ask to prove the point, the F-16 does have the potential to overcome anything the IAF fields today ..Briefly speaking since obviously a detailed answer is a little too much for your little processor to handle ... the F-16 negates the BVR advantage the IAF held, operates among the best BVR weapons in the world in the Aim-120 C5, has a low Radar cross section compared to a standard RCS fighter (taken @ 5m2), has advanced avionics and EW equipment ... is considered one of the most successful and THE BEST dog fighter of this generation, add in nearly 3 decades of experience in the F-16 by the PAF pilots .... Add in the conditions the IAF has to face ... with a huge air space to defend ... where it has PLAAF on one side ... hence contingencies will have to be in place ... add in the nuclear element .... in such conditions where you can't cross a redline otherwise it goes nuclear, when you pit in an F-16 under our doctrine in use ... not only is it in of itself a big threat to anything the IAF fields (because of the reasons mentioned) ... you add in the SAMS, MANPADS, C4I and an AWACS for greater situational awareness ... to add to that your facing an airforce with the majority of the fleet being easily maintainable, meaning lesser turn around times, more availability and most of the time when the IAFcrosses in to the airspace of PAF .. it is much more likely to face a 4th generation fighter ...

Other then that .. you can see what happened with you guys in Red flag 08 ... or the fact that around the time where you were threatening for surgical strikes ... your precious MKI's and M2K's got locked on by PAF F-16's which at that point weren't even BVR capable ...

Quoting a series of past post is showing how you try to mock to be smart which could have been the answer/response to different post. Any thanks for proving me what you really are and my important question which I asked you.

For second part which you have tried to explain, obviously unbriefly to the me, infact with less processing power you explained how F-16 block 52 will lock our precious MKI and M2K and explained all the assets like SAMS, MANPADS, C4I and an AWACS but who is saying that MKI and M2K is coming before cruise missile obviously Brahmos which will be first wave of the attack to soften the target can you explain how you are gonna blow them in pieces.

I can answer all your points but first explain Brahmos and how you are gonna blow them into pieces.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Quoting a series of past post is showing how you try to mock to be smart which could have been the answer/response to different post. Any thanks for proving me what you really are and my important question which I asked you.

For second part which you have tried to explain, obviously unbriefly to the me, infact with less processing power you explained how F-16 block 52 will lock our precious MKI and M2K and explained all the assets like SAMS, MANPADS, C4I and an AWACS but who is saying that MKI and M2K is coming before cruise missile obviously Brahmos which will be first wave of the attack to soften the target can you explain how you are gonna blow them in pieces.

I can answer all your points but first explain Brahmos and how you are gonna blow them into pieces.

Wow .. what an absolutely great response .. I'm already a fan ... a complete psychiatric diagnosis coupled with your inspiring thoughts which somehow never even touched THE ORIGINAL POINT (OF F-16's being able to go toe to toe with anything the IAF fields) WHICH YOU DEMANDED THE EXPLANATION FOR... the only thing that ever came near to a response on point was " I can answer all your points" ...

So continue on with your little drivel as I don't intend to be off topic anymore .... but then again ... if you think there is no defending a supersonic cruise missile ... then what happens when in retaliation ... PAF launches its stand off weapons ... missiles such as CM-400 AKG which just happens to be 2+ Mach faster then your precious brahmos ... add in the land based missile assets, which you ran to in response to a post which was discussing aerial warfare ... do familiarize yourself with our ballistic and cruise missile arsenal because you wouldn't be making such a point if you had any idea of whats staring you in the face ... if you exercise such options ...

 

[Viper0011.]

For second part which you have tried to explain, obviously unbriefly to the me, infact with less processing power you explained how F-16 block 52 will lock our precious MKI and M2K and explained all the assets like SAMS, MANPADS, C4I and an AWACS but who is saying that MKI and M2K is coming before cruise missile obviously Brahmos which will be first wave of the attack to soften the target can you explain how you are gonna blow them in pieces.

Brahmos coming in will not hit the PAF fighters in the air already that were scrambled the second the SU-30's took off!!! The PAF's conventional Radars can see over a 100 miles inside India from all directions. Add AWACS to it, anything landing or taking off from your bases its seen and tracked. Unless you are firing Brahmos from the ground, in which case, why are we talking about an Air battle?? Then the other side will respond with their missiles and TRUST me, in a low nuclear threshold, any missile would be considered "HOT" and Kaboom!!! No one can risk to be hit first in this situation and Pakistan can't afford it as its depth isn't much. So that leaves missiles out of the war.

Now the -16 will see and lock the SU-30 when the SU-30 will lock and see the -16. No one has mature weapons that can hit out a plane from over 100 miles. That's simply not applicable in Pakistan-India's case as a plane can land and what happens to the missile when the lock disappears?? There are 12 things you can do to waste missiles from that far out.

Now both the SU and the -16 will lock and fire BVR's at a similar distance 60 miles or close to it, plus - minus 10%. From this point on, the -16 will never fire one missile as it knows that an advance missile like the AMRAAM C5 or D, will make it to the jet and the best option the SU would eventually have, is to use its TVC.

So the second AMRAAM will be fired knowing that calculation and it'll hit the SU when its recovering or has JUST recovered from the TVC lag. On the other hand, if the SU also fired two missiles, the other Viper is gone too. With advanced missiles, this is almost a sure kill scenario on either side. Whether its M2K or Su-30 or the Viper.

In WVR, pilot training and skills matter a lot. On high altitudes, M2K seems to be more agile and has a heavier thrust. But on normal altitude, the F-16 would eat the M2K for lunch. The USAF trains with the Western planes a LOT. With SU-30, an experienced F-16 dog fighting pilot can win. Just like they win from the F-15's and F-18's. The -16 is just very difficult to shake in a dog fight. But remember, that skill is either with the USAF, Israeli AF, or the Pakistani AF. No other air-force with -16's has the combat experience to produce these battle hardened combat pilots for dog fights!

Ask a superior F-15 pilot what does he fear the most, his answer would be, the Viper!!! He'd be comfortable facing everything else but the Viper. Same applies to this scenario here.

 

[zebra7]

Wow .. what an absolutely great response .. I'm already a fan ... a complete psychiatric diagnosis coupled with your inspiring thoughts which somehow never even touched THE ORIGINAL POINT (OF F-16's being able to go toe to toe with anything the IAF fields) WHICH YOU DEMANDED THE EXPLANATION FOR... the only thing that ever came near to a response on point was " I can answer all your points" ...

So continue on with your little drivel as I don't intend to be off topic anymore .... but then again ... c ... add in the land based missile assets, which you ran to in response to a post which was discussing aerial warfare ... do familiarize yourself with our ballistic and cruise missile arsenal because you wouldn't be making such a point if you had any idea of whats staring you in the face ... if you exercise such options ...

Great Answer WOW I had only asked about how pakistan defend against Brahmos your response answer.

Brahmos have different varriants and since you are very much interested in proving that paf will distroy everything which is thrown on Pakistan.

if you think there is no defending a supersonic cruise missile ... then what happens when in retaliation ... PAF launches its stand off weapons ... missiles such as CM-400 AKG which just happens to be 2+ Mach faster then your precious brahmos

Such flashy bold letter and underline ?? He He Who is saying Brahmos is un defendable. First of all Brahmos have different version Antiship version, Land Attack Version, Submarine and air Launched vesion. Bhahmos type supersonic cruise missile can be definitely defended by say Barak 8, Aegis, France have the capability etc etc but does Pakistan have that capability or plain and simple which SAM can Defend against Brahmos.

CM-400 AKG for Land attack ? I thought it was anti-ship cruise missile and the hypersonic speed oh that one is achieved during the terminal phase i.e around 30 Km near the target when missile dive steply otherwise it is subsonic missile.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Great Answer WOW I had only asked about how pakistan defend against Brahmos your response answer.

Brahmos have different varriants and since you are very much interested in proving that paf will distroy everything which is thrown on Pakistan.


Such flashy bold letter and underline ?? He He Who is saying Brahmos is un defendable. First of all Brahmos have different version Antiship version, Land Attack Version, Submarine and air Launched vesion. Bhahmos type supersonic cruise missile can be definitely defended by say Barak 8, Aegis, France have the capability etc etc but does Pakistan have that capability or plain and simple which SAM can Defend against Brahmos.

CM-400 AKG for Land attack ? I thought it was anti-ship cruise missile and the hypersonic speed oh that one is achieved during the terminal phase i.e around 30 Km near the target when missile dive steply otherwise it is subsonic missile.

I post a whole bolded response on how you never even touched the points which you wanted to be proved to you ... i.e (F-16 going toe to toe with IAF assets) ... and you don't even have the audacity to touch that part with any serious response, never mind a real reply in any shape or form ..

So .. your defense of the whole statement of PAF having XYZ stand off assets never mind our entire repertoire of missile assets is that "Brahmos has different versions" .. atleast look up the things your posting before you post them .. eg. CM-400 AKG is an asset that can also be used to attack fixed targets .. and speaking of different versions ... the versions you quote ... like an ALCM Brahmos hasn't even been tested as of yet ..

Test Launch of Operational BrahMos Missile From Su-30MKI in 2016

As for being defend able ... that is a whole different debate .. The patriot is supposedly the world's best when it comes to interception of missiles etc. but the success rate against SCUDS (which was originally made in the Soviet union era) is 70% in war/real situations ... As for having assets .. we do have Surface to air missile assets that do have the capacity to undertake such tasks .. such as SPADA 2000 ...