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China Makes Cheap Electric Cars; Why Can’t Americans Buy Them? “[The Chinese have] reached a point of manufacturing cars efficiently like phones"

Would these cars be durable enough with an ICE in the global south?

Could they be built at such a scale that they could bring down the cost of a hybrid engine to nearly that of an ICE only version but only a couple hundred dollars more?
Well, there is a reason why African country still using old European car like from the 1980s or even earlier. Because of the spare and the build quality. They can run forever if you know how to mend them. New car needed a lot of work, ICE or not, and they aren't really suitable in the Global South.

It would be a massive undertaking for Africa or traditional Global South nation to migrate from that, because it wouldn't work if you send them cheap and cheerful Chinese EV but they don't have enough infrastructure to support them, maybe China can do that in the Global South, but it is very unlikely seeing how they fumbled with the first round of loan.
 
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I think they scored around 4 to 5 star in most NCAP rating, but then so did most car, I mean unless the car is really crap, otherwise you would normally get 4 to 5 star.


I lived in Blacktown. The slum, or murder central of Sydney.

And you can't go below "minimum wage" that's illegal, and Waiter are usually at minimum rate. You are talking about $22-$25 an hour, . That's $50,000 a year basic working 38 hours a week, then you have weekend penalty rate (usually paying 50% more) and overtime, Even a waiter here earn around 60-65K easy




Again, you have completely ignored my point, as I said, most people will buy the stuff that suit them best IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT. You don't market to the fringe people who can only afford those cars. No one with a sane mind will target those fringe people who can barely afford those items when they can't really afford it. When most people can afford those stuff, they would buy them because they are better option, and in most case, better option means a better car than the other. Most people in the west will not go bottom-line if they can afford it, sure such people exist, but this is not really a big group.
The annual wage review decision, released on Friday, indicates the minimum wages will increase to $882.80 per week or $23.23 per hour. For about 180,000 workers on the national minimum award, the rise will be 8.6%.


Source: https://amp.theguardian.com/austral...kers-5-75-per-cent-increase-wages-from-july-1
 
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The annual wage review decision, released on Friday, indicates the minimum wages will increase to $882.80 per week or $23.23 per hour. For about 180,000 workers on the national minimum award, the rise will be 8.6%.


Source: https://amp.theguardian.com/austral...kers-5-75-per-cent-increase-wages-from-july-1
?? You are quoting the exact same number I quoted.

I think the last number is somewhere $21 or $22/hr, well, I wouldn't know as I had never been on minimal wage, only people with dead end job on them...
 
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?? You are quoting the exact same number I quoted.

I think the last number is somewhere $21 or $22/hr, well, I wouldn't know as I had never been on minimal wage, only people with dead end job on them...
Majority of them are on dead end jobs. With that minimum wage, they cannot afford Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen anymore. Even Hyundai and Kia are getting pricier . Precisely why Chinese brands are much needed if they are being offered as affordable budget with lower upkeep in the long run. I am certain that majority of them who are earning below the minimum wages will welcome affordable options.

$22 per hour doesn't cut it in front of higher markup with crazy adds-on and higher interest rates. Most of non-luxury brands tend to cost bit higher with higher interest rates on the top of it.
 
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Majority of them are on dead end jobs. With that minimum wage, they cannot afford Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen anymore. Even Hyundai and Kia are getting pricier . Precisely why Chinese brands are much needed if they are being offered as affordable budget with lower upkeep in the long run. I am certain that majority of them who are earning below the minimum wages will welcome affordable options.

$22 per hour doesn't cut it in front of higher markup with crazy adds-on and higher interest rates. Most of non-luxury brands tend to cost bit higher with higher interest rates on the top of it.
I don't think a lot of Australian are on minimal wages, majority of them are earning around $30+ an hour. My job is paying around $50/hr, like the article you quote, only about 180,000. And even so, those on minimal wages can afford a $50,000 or $60,000 car easy. I mean, I just checked out a Tesla over the weekend, they give me a quote of $800 a month repayment with $10,000 downpayment for 56 months finance. That is very easily affordable to people who are on minimal wages.

Cars aren't really that expensive like I can't even afford a Japanese car or a Tesla. Those are very affordable price.

And $22/hr would cut it in most household. In Australia, a full-time employee work 38 hours a week, people usually work 8 or 9 hours a day, which mean even if you are on $22 an hour, 22 x 8 = $176 a day, 5 days work week = 5 x 176 = $880 a week, and 52 weeks a year = $880 x 52 = $46,000. I mean interest rate is high, but it's not like it's 20% or what, people on $22 a day can afford a $60,000 car with a 5 years repayment plan easy.

Of course, it would be another issue if people can't afford it, but even at minimal wage, you are probably still going to be able to make 800 a month for a car.

I am certain that majority of them who are earning below the minimum wages will welcome affordable options.

And finally, again, YOU CANNOT EARN BELOW MINIMAL WAGES..........

It's called the minimal wage, meaning if you work, your employer has to pay you the amount ABOVE the minimal wage, so NO ONE would have work below Minimal Wage, because that is illegal, minimal wage is NOT a suggestion, it's a law where you need to pay at least that amount for your worker, that's why it was called MINIMAL wages...

Or you don't work, then you get pay nothing. And if you don't work, then you probably wouldn't be able to afford even a Chinese EV, or you are mega rich and you don't need to work a day in your life, if so, i doubt you will go after a Chinese EV.
 
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I don't think a lot of Australian are on minimal wages, majority of them are earning around $30+ an hour. My job is paying around $50/hr, like the article you quote, only about 180,000. And even so, those on minimal wages can afford a $50,000 or $60,000 car easy. I mean, I just checked out a Tesla over the weekend, they give me a quote of $800 a month repayment with $10,000 downpayment for 56 months finance. That is very easily affordable to people who are on minimal wages.

Cars aren't really that expensive like I can't even afford a Japanese car or a Tesla. Those are very affordable price.

And $22/hr would cut it in most household. In Australia, a full-time employee work 38 hours a week, people usually work 8 or 9 hours a day, which mean even if you are on $22 an hour, 22 x 8 = $176 a day, 5 days work week = 5 x 176 = $880 a week, and 52 weeks a year = $880 x 52 = $46,000. I mean interest rate is high, but it's not like it's 20% or what, people on $22 a day can afford a $60,000 car with a 5 years repayment plan easy.

Of course, it would be another issue if people can't afford it, but even at minimal wage, you are probably still going to be able to make 800 a month for a car.


Majority of them are earning below the minimum wage judging by the inflations. That minimum wage doesn't cover the high markup prices with dealers crazy adds-on and higher interest rates up to 9. Do you realize that adds up to 20k loans extra depending on the cost of value? Not to mention, stretching from 72 months to 96 months on fixed interest rate that costs you more. It is debt trap to enslave consumers for the highway robbery.

I honestly don't know where you live [sarcasm], but majority who earns below the minimum wage judging by inflation finds rising costs too high.

How do you factor majority who earns 30 bucks when majority are citizens are living below the minimum wage and that applies all over the Europe and North America especially since inflations are too high.

Even if that is not the case, why would anyone choose expensive options with expensive upkeep when there is affordable option with lower upkeep.
And finally, again, YOU CANNOT EARN BELOW MINIMAL WAGES..........

It's called the minimal wage, meaning if you work, your employer has to pay you the amount ABOVE the minimal wage, so NO ONE would have work below Minimal Wage, because that is illegal, minimal wage is NOT a suggestion, it's a law where you need to pay at least that amount for your worker, that's why it was called MINIMAL wages...

Or you don't work, then you get pay nothing. And if you don't work, then you probably wouldn't be able to afford even a Chinese EV, or you are mega rich and you don't need to work a day in your life, if so, i doubt you will go after a Chinese EV.
Judging by the inflations, they are working the set minimum wage.

Whether you work or not but inflations is crime and it is unfair to dump on the people when they are already paying taxes to keep the economy afloat and then the inflations are dumped on them whether it is lifestyle, vehicle or home.

No one in right mind would reject cheaper options with lower upkeep if there is available. That is how the market works. There is market for cheaper options, pricier brand option and luxuries option that costs you arm and leg.

Who are you to decide those who are working below the minimum wage judging by the inflation don't need cheaper options? Let the market decides - not the government.
 
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Majority of them are earning below the minimum wage judging by the inflations. That minimum wage doesn't cover the high markup prices with dealers crazy adds-on and higher interest rates up to 9. Do you realize that adds up to 20k loans extra depending on the cost of value? Not to mention, stretching from 72 months to 96 months on fixed interest rate that costs you more. It is debt trap to enslave consumers for the highway robbery.

I honestly don't know where you live [sarcasm], but majority who earns below the minimum wage judging by inflation finds rising costs too high.

How do you factor majority who earns 30 bucks when majority are citizens are living below the minimum wage and that applies all over the Europe and North America especially since inflations are too high.

Even if that is not the case, why would anyone choose expensive options with expensive upkeep when there is affordable option with lower upkeep.

Judging by the inflations, they are working the set minimum wage.

Whether you work or not but inflations is crime and it is unfair to dump on the people when they are already paying taxes to keep the economy afloat and then the inflations are dumped on them whether it is lifestyle, vehicle or home.

No one in right mind would reject cheaper options with lower upkeep if there is available. That is how the market works. There is market for cheaper options, pricier brand option and luxuries option that costs you arm and leg.

Who are you to decide those who are working below the minimum wage judging by the inflation don't need cheaper options? Let the market decides - not the government.
You have 2 issue here, maybe you come from a developing country which have a different standard of living than we in the West? Or You are just ignorant of the issue because you don't live here. First of all, NO ONE, I will repeat NO ONE will ever earn less than minimal wage, you get paid minimal wage or above, if you get paid less than minimal wages, your employer will be breaking the law, it wasn't early 2000 when paying people $10 an hour can fly... Again, I don't know where you live, maybe wage theft is a very widespread problem there? If so, then I feel sorry for you.

On the other hand, again, inflation is NOT 20%, where you will be forced under when you are earning minimum wage, I mean, I don't know where you live, it may be true over where your place is, but not here in Australia. I mean 50k a year, you are talking about 5-6% inflation. It wouldn't push people under......


The latest monthly consumer price indicator shows inflation fell sharply to 5.6 per cent over the 12 months to May, down from 6.8 per cent in April.

And as the maths I lay out, even people on minimum wages, which IS THE LOWEST in this country can get, can afford to buy a Tesla rather easily, because the price range for a car you buy is generally 4 times your yearly wages for a 5 years loan. I mean even if just you, doing a dead end job and earning $50,000 a year, your would still have around $20,000 a year disposable income. Think about this, you earn $880 a week, rent is around $250 a week, food is about $70 and you pay around 300 a month for electricity, internet and so on, you are left with around $2000 a month ($880 x 4 = 3520, you taken out 4 weeks of rent (= $1000) 4 week of food (= $280) and $300 a month utilities, you left 3520-1000-280-300 = 1940 a month), 12 months is $23280 in your pocket that is disposable. You can more than easily afford a $56000 car if you go for a 5-year loan.

The second issue you have is you don't understand people's buying habit in the west. Again, I don't know because of your countries' conditions or you, sadly to say, cannot afford a lot of thing in your life, or you can simply be a very fugal person, I don't know, but when people look at Price tag, and if people can afford all the option, most of them won't go for the cheapest option, unless you SPECIFICALLY aim for it, again, like you just want to save money for whatever reason, it's a common trend for people to go for the best option if they can afford stuff, otherwise we won't be using anything but Chinese product because if this is the trend, then people will be buying only Chinese product because it is cheaper than the other brand. I mean TCL would have outsell Samsung or LG for TV, or Oppo will be outselling Samsung and Iphone here. If the majority of people is like you said, only focus on value, then EU/US brand would have been extincted in Australia or the US.

The only way what you said make sense is for people to not be able to afford any product other than the Chinese cheaper replacement. But as I said, this is wrong because at the very bottom level, a person who work only 40 hours a week in minimal pay, could have $23280 a year save up (more if they live with parent or didn't live alone) and you can more than enough to afford Tesla or even a Merc EV if you try to stretch it out.

Again, I am not saying people who like to save and choose the cheaper option would not happen, but THAT WAS NOT THE TREND HERE, that is not the trend for TV, for mobile phone, for white goods or food, and it certainly not for buying an ICE car. We have Chinese car here already, if what you say was true, then people would have been buying Haval or MG or GVM in dove, because everyone want to save, but that is not the case here. I mean, if people can normally afford a Toyota and buy a Toyota, it wouldn't change suddenly when you are talking about EV, they would still be able to afford a Toyota EV, you would have expected ICE car have a same trend than EV


1. Toyota231,050223,6423.3% increase
2. Mazda95,718101,1195.3% decrease
3. Kia78,33067,96415.3% increase
4. Mitsubishi76,99167,73213.7% increase
5. Hyundai73,34572,8720.6% increase
6. Ford66,62871,3806.7% decrease
7. MG49,58239,02527.1% increase
8. Subaru36,03637,0152.6% decrease
9. Isuzu Ute35,32335,7351.2% decrease
10. Volkswagen30,94640,77024.1% decrease

So with all due respect, you are wrong. As for what make me speak for people here? Well, I live here, and I am not just saying stuff, I am using all kind of data backing up what I said, and unless you do know more than me about buying a car in Australia. I would have to say my knowledge on this subject matter is better than yours.
 
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You’re the one brought it up and said it doesn’t taste good low quality . Should certainly be better than the bat crap you guys are used to though
Where did I say I taste it fool ? Only you people are eating them and everyone knows those crap are shit.
 
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You have 2 issue here, maybe you come from a developing country which have a different standard of living than we in the West? Or You are just ignorant of the issue because you don't live here. First of all, NO ONE, I will repeat NO ONE will ever earn less than minimal wage, you get paid minimal wage or above, if you get paid less than minimal wages, your employer will be breaking the law, it wasn't early 2000 when paying people $10 an hour can fly... Again, I don't know where you live, maybe wage theft is a very widespread problem there? If so, then I feel sorry for you.

On the other hand, again, inflation is NOT 20%, where you will be forced under when you are earning minimum wage, I mean, I don't know where you live, it may be true over where your place is, but not here in Australia. I mean 50k a year, you are talking about 5-6% inflation. It wouldn't push people under......




And as the maths I lay out, even people on minimum wages, which IS THE LOWEST in this country can get, can afford to buy a Tesla rather easily, because the price range for a car you buy is generally 4 times your yearly wages for a 5 years loan. I mean even if just you, doing a dead end job and earning $50,000 a year, your would still have around $20,000 a year disposable income. Think about this, you earn $880 a week, rent is around $250 a week, food is about $70 and you pay around 300 a month for electricity, internet and so on, you are left with around $2000 a month ($880 x 4 = 3520, you taken out 4 weeks of rent (= $1000) 4 week of food (= $280) and $300 a month utilities, you left 3520-1000-280-300 = 1940 a month), 12 months is $23280 in your pocket that is disposable. You can more than easily afford a $56000 car if you go for a 5-year loan.

The second issue you have is you don't understand people's buying habit in the west. Again, I don't know because of your countries' conditions or you, sadly to say, cannot afford a lot of thing in your life, or you can simply be a very fugal person, I don't know, but when people look at Price tag, and if people can afford all the option, most of them won't go for the cheapest option, unless you SPECIFICALLY aim for it, again, like you just want to save money for whatever reason, it's a common trend for people to go for the best option if they can afford stuff, otherwise we won't be using anything but Chinese product because if this is the trend, then people will be buying only Chinese product because it is cheaper than the other brand. I mean TCL would have outsell Samsung or LG for TV, or Oppo will be outselling Samsung and Iphone here. If the majority of people is like you said, only focus on value, then EU/US brand would have been extincted in Australia or the US.

The only way what you said make sense is for people to not be able to afford any product other than the Chinese cheaper replacement. But as I said, this is wrong because at the very bottom level, a person who work only 40 hours a week in minimal pay, could have $23280 a year save up (more if they live with parent or didn't live alone) and you can more than enough to afford Tesla or even a Merc EV if you try to stretch it out.

Again, I am not saying people who like to save and choose the cheaper option would not happen, but THAT WAS NOT THE TREND HERE, that is not the trend for TV, for mobile phone, for white goods or food, and it certainly not for buying an ICE car. We have Chinese car here already, if what you say was true, then people would have been buying Haval or MG or GVM in dove, because everyone want to save, but that is not the case here. I mean, if people can normally afford a Toyota and buy a Toyota, it wouldn't change suddenly when you are talking about EV, they would still be able to afford a Toyota EV, you would have expected ICE car have a same trend than EV




So with all due respect, you are wrong. As for what make me speak for people here? Well, I live here, and I am not just saying stuff, I am using all kind of data backing up what I said, and unless you do know more than me about buying a car in Australia. I would have to say my knowledge on this subject matter is better than yours.
When the inflation goes skyrocket and mortgage interest rates hiking up with everything including fuels, the stated minimum wage in face of inflation is below with the expenses.

I have heard that many times that how people can afford despite that and in spite of that. It is not rocket science why most of them are on debt buying the things they cannot afford. Western worlds are out of control with buying spree that they cannot afford.

USA, one of the richest nation in the worlds is also trillion dollars on debt owed to China.
 
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When the inflation goes skyrocket and mortgage interest rates hiking up with everything including fuels, the stated minimum wage in face of inflation is below with the expenses.

again, inflation is not 20%.......it's around 5 %......

I think the worse of the western world is around 8% in the UK, US is about 7%, those number are manageable.......
I have heard that many times that how people can afford despite that and in spite of that. It is not rocket science why most of them are on debt buying the things they cannot afford. Western worlds are out of control with buying spree that they cannot afford.

not when you really can afford it, again, go back to the maths, you have 23k disposable income even if you are working at THE MINIMUM rate (at minimum wages and minimum hours)

USA, one of the richest nation in the worlds is also trillion dollars on debt owed to China.
What have this have to do with anything?

US is always going to be in debt, because their currency support 57% of the world reserve, and there is no way you can have enough money to circulate to supplement that, or US will be in serious inflation as 57% of the world demanded USD. The only thing the US can do to support the world economy is to put their economy in debt. Or they would have to print trillions upon trillions of dollars so foreign countries can use them in their forex.
 
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again, inflation is not 20%.......it's around 5 %......

I think the worse of the western world is around 8% in the UK, US is about 7%, those number are manageable.......


not when you really can afford it, again, go back to the maths, you have 23k disposable income even if you are working at THE MINIMUM rate (at minimum wages and minimum hours)


What have this have to do with anything?

US is always going to be in debt, because their currency support 57% of the world reserve, and there is no way you can have enough money to circulate to supplement that, or US will be in serious inflation as 57% of the world demanded USD. The only thing the US can do to support the world economy is to put their economy in debt. Or they would have to print trillions upon trillions of dollars so foreign countries can use them in their forex.


Since the beginning of the pandemic, Australian Government gross debt has increased from $534.4 billion in March 2019 to $894.9 billion as of 28 October 2022. The October 2022–23 Budget forecasts further increases in gross debt to $1.159 trillion (43.1% of GDP) by the end of the 2025–26 financial year (Budget strategy and outlook: budget paper no. 1: 2022–23, p. 218).


# If your debt increases every year as your buying spree continues furthermore, that doesn't mean you can afford anymore. Your debt increase tell you that you cannot afford buying spree anymore if you are not going to pay the debt.

With inflation that increases interest rates higher on commodity, that means the debt is going to increase as buying spree continues.
 
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