China leads India by massive margin in space race

[master_13]

It was never our priority and we never attamatte it. You attempted mars mission and failed. You even failed on moon and talking big mouth here. When we reached Mars, you announced that China will launch mars mission in 2017. It is 2019 now. I don't know how do you accomodate such a big ego in such a small brain.

lol, Indian love bragging about their Mars mission. Without NASA providing Deep Space Positioning system, Indian can't even get their satellite out of earth orbit without NASA help. There's only 3 countries on earth that have such system, China, US and Russia. Of course your mission is cheap, you rely on the american to provide technology to guide your satellite to Mars, and Deep Space system is the biggest cost you avoided. Don't kid yourself, the whole success of your so called Mars mission is an accomplishment of the US, not Indian.

here numbers are important and not weight. Only stupid CPC trainees can make such statement.

Here comes an Indian pretending he knows what he's talking about. In space race, the biggest hurdle has always been weight, not number of nano-satellites. That's why US is ahead of China because US can put much bigger payload at much higher altitude. US isn't behind India simply because India put 104 nano satellites in space. And China is ahead of India because China can put much bigger payload at much higher altitude. The race had always been who can put the most weight and biggest object deeper into space. India is way behind. Comparing number of nano satellites you can launch against launching weight is like comparing winning elementary school math competition vs. winning math Olympiad, not even at the same level.

China is 3 times as big as India and has 3-5 times more resource than India but has same population as India. So, China is obviously very resource rich comparatively.

Putting man in space is only a gimmick. The idea of space technology is to use it for better communication and security. How will man going to space change that? Putting man into space is only meant for prestige and not for utility and hence it does not count

lol, no wonder Indian have no vision and can't think 20 or 30 years out. Putting man in space is only gimmick, are you kidding me? so future manned space exploration to Moon and Mars don't count? Space station that test human reactions in space is only gimmick? I mean really?

 

[Smarana Mitra]

lol, no wonder Indian have no vision and can't think 20 or 30 years out. Putting man in space is only gimmick, are you kidding me? so future manned space exploration to Moon and Mars don't count? Space station that test human reactions in space is only gimmick? I mean really?

I am thinking ahead in terms of 1000s of years. The earth is 4.5 billion year old. So, the 20-30 year is too small. In the next 20-30 years, India has lot of other useful activity to do which needs lot of haste. Manned mission is a project that will have implications only may be in next century. So, first India must get the important things done instead of manned mission

lol, Indian love bragging about their Mars mission. Without NASA providing Deep Space Positioning system, Indian can't even get their satellite out of earth orbit without NASA help. There's only 3 countries on earth that have such system, China, US and Russia. Of course your mission is cheap, you rely on the american to provide technology to guide your satellite to Mars, and Deep Space system is the biggest cost you avoided. Don't kid yourself, the whole success of your so called Mars mission is an accomplishment of the US, not Indian.

We avoided the cost as it requires things like ships or bases on other side of the world to regularly track the signals and so on. That was highly resource intensive and hence avoided. But India has the technology to do things if needed for results. Mars mission was a gimmick to show the world of Indian talent, not to get results. So, minimum cost was envisaged. Cost of barely $70 million dollars for the mission is the highlight

 

[master_13]

I am thinking ahead in terms of 1000s of years. The earth is 4.5 billion year old. So, the 20-30 year is too small. In the next 20-30 years, India has lot of other useful activity to do which needs lot of haste. Manned mission is a project that will have implications only may be in next century. So, first India must get the important things done instead of manned mission


We avoided the cost as it requires things like ships or bases on other side of the world to regularly track the signals and so on. That was highly resource intensive and hence avoided. But India has the technology to do things if needed for results. Mars mission was a gimmick to show the world of Indian talent, not to get results. So, minimum cost was envisaged. Cost of barely $70 million dollars for the mission is the highlight

Like I said, it's easy to make satellite and launch it, but it's hard to guide it toward Mars, which is why India required NASA Deep Space communication system.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Like I said, it's easy to make satellite and launch it, but it's hard to guide it toward Mars, which is why India required NASA Deep Space communication system.

No, guiding to MARS was also easy but requires ground stations all over the globe so that the signal can be received even on the other side. Except for resource intensiveness of the work, the technology itself was not difficult

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

India placed 104 satellite in one mission still china is ahead.
India put multiple satellites in 3 orbit in today's mission still china is ahead.
India successfully reached MARS in copy book manner in first attempt and china failed measurably still china is ahead.
ISRO tested Scram jet engine to be used in rocket but still China is ahead.
India tested reusable rocket which will launch satellite and come back still china is ahead.
India's launch costs cheapest. India's new vehicle will bring down cost to 10% of current cost. New vehicle is coming this year still China is ahead.

So let us bow down to mighty China because they are much ahead of India and India will never be able to catch them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112776139444047873

https://i.imgur.com/bwnxG6Y.jpg ; http://linkspace.com.cn/img/slider/banner.jpg ; http://linkspace.com.cn/#body ;
▲ 1. LinkSpace did a very successful test on rocket recycling on March 27, 2019. It will support us to open the next PLAN. Thank you Dr. @robert_zubrin for being here to witness this exciting milestone. Later, NewLine Baby(RLV-T5) will undergo higher flight tests in the future. 1 April 2019

Commentary

Self-propangandist, beware, as ISRO might not even secure the most coveted fourth place as a spacefaring superpower!

https://i.imgur.com/x1Gc2y1.jpg ; https://imgur.com/a/m0osGpl
▲ 2. Artistic illustration of a DPRK manned space launcher at Sohae SLC, launchpad LC-1.

 

[God Parshuram]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112776139444047873

https://i.imgur.com/bwnxG6Y.jpg ; http://linkspace.com.cn/img/slider/banner.jpg ; http://linkspace.com.cn/#body ;
▲ 1. LinkSpace did a very successful test on rocket recycling on March 27, 2019. It will support us to open the next PLAN. Thank you Dr. @robert_zubrin for being here to witness this exciting milestone. Later, NewLine Baby(RLV-T5) will undergo higher flight tests in the future. 1 April 2019

Commentary

Self-propangandist, beware, as ISRO might not even secure the most coveted fourth place as a spacefaring superpower!

https://i.imgur.com/x1Gc2y1.jpg ; https://imgur.com/a/m0osGpl
▲ 2. Artistic illustration of a DPRK manned space launcher at Sohae SLC, launchpad LC-1.

Your government controlled media has asked your shity space agency with big budget to learn from ISRO. By this year end , we are going to launch a highly cost effective launch vehicle specially designed for small satellites. It will reduce our launch cost to just 10% of current cost. When china becomes bankrupt and can't afford to spend money on costly launches, we shall launch your satellites at a fraction of your cost.

 

[Dungeness]

MoM and 104 have earned Indians bragging right, and every other Indian members here have to mention them over and over again. There is nothing wrong to celebrate some frivolous achievements, but knowing what really matters is what makes a country great, and that's where they are stuck.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

MoM and 104 have earned Indians bragging right, and every other Indian members here have to mention them over and over again. There is nothing wrong to celebrate some frivolous achievements, but knowing what really matters is what makes a country great, and that's where they are stuck.

You are correct in saying MoM is a useless mission. But Chinese speaking of space station or man on space is as useless as our MoM.

However, the 104 satellites being launched is not useless. It has technology far more complex and makes use of many complex concepts which can be of dual use like in case of MIRV missiles. The capability to launch 100+ satellite can be used to launch over 10-15 payload as MIRV.

The main use of satellites is for defence and that being served is the most important criteria. India has sufficient technology to be at par with any other country of the world in terms of defensive use of space. So, this is enough

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

China is 3 times as big as India and has 3-5 times more resource than India but has same population as India. So, China is obviously very resource rich comparatively.

I wonder if you'd follow this line of thinkibg when comparing India and Pakistan as well.


.

 

[master_13]

You are correct in saying MoM is a useless mission. But Chinese speaking of space station or man on space is as useless as our MoM.

However, the 104 satellites being launched is not useless. It has technology far more complex and makes use of many complex concepts which can be of dual use like in case of MIRV missiles. The capability to launch 100+ satellite can be used to launch over 10-15 payload as MIRV.

The main use of satellites is for defence and that being served is the most important criteria. India has sufficient technology to be at par with any other country of the world in terms of defensive use of space. So, this is enough

apparently you don't understand the fact that India doesn't have such capability to carry much payload into space. You can only launch nano satellites.

Your government controlled media has asked your shity space agency with big budget to learn from ISRO. By this year end , we are going to launch a highly cost effective launch vehicle specially designed for small satellites. It will reduce our launch cost to just 10% of current cost. When china becomes bankrupt and can't afford to spend money on costly launches, we shall launch your satellites at a fraction of your cost.

Learn to use cheap labor and dirty cheap service? Don't kid yourself, china space program has so much money, it's beyond what you Indian can ever imagine. That's why we put man and space station into space while you can only provide dirt cheap low altitude launch services.

 

[kris]

China leads India by massive margin in space race
While India was preening itself over its technological prowess, the fact is that India is at least twelve years behind China in this "space race", and that gulf is only going to widen given the vast resources China is pouring in.
April 1, 2019
UPDATED: April 1, 2019 09:28 IST

India's conduct of an anti-satellite (ASAT) test on 27 March showed that Delhi is taking seriously neighbouring China's own space capabilities. While India was preening itself over its technological prowess, the fact is that India is at least twelve years behind China in this "space race", and that gulf is only going to widen given the vast resources China is pouring in.

Indeed, China performed its own direct-ascent ASAT test against a weather satellite in January 2007, employing an SC-19 interceptor. However, that mission resulted in a large and hazardous field of space debris that drew the ire of the world.


Even China's so-called civil space program, which has put a research lab in space and plans to put a man on the moon, is subservient to the military. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) is undoubtedly using the manned space program for military purposes. For instance, all Shenzhou space capsule missiles carried military payloads or performed military missions.


An example is Shenzhou-7, which intercepted the International Space Station and launched a microsatellite simulating a combat payload. Under the guise of a civil program, the PLA has seized the opportunity to duplicitously gain technologies from foreign civil space agencies.

Last year, China completed 36 space launches from its two major launch centers of Jiuquan in Inner Mongolia, and Xichang in Sichuan Province. Of course, Beijing's bold space program reflects national pride and the authorities' attempt to create the veneer of China being a global power. China has more than 120 military satellites in orbit, including a test quantum communications satellite that offers highly secure data transfer.

China's military space programs

But how are we to assess the state of China's military space capabilities? The USA keeps a close eye on Chinese developments, and some of the most authoritative assessments come from the annual report to Congress entitled "Military and Security Developments Involving the People's Republic of China".

The most recent report, issued last year, summarized: "China's space program continues to mature rapidly. The PLA, which has historically managed the effort, continues to invest in improving its capabilities in space-based intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), satellite communication, satellite navigation and meteorology, as well as human spaceflight and robotic space exploration."

By its own admission, the PLA views space as critical to the conduct of warfare. The Pentagon noted: "PLA strategists regard the ability to use space-based systems - and to deny them to adversaries - as central to modern warfare. The PLA continues to strengthen its military space capabilities despite its public stance against the militarisation of space. Space operations are viewed as a key enabler of PLA campaigns aimed at countering third-party intervention, although PLA doctrine has not elevated them to the level of a separate 'campaign'."

The 2018 report also gave this overall description: "Additionally, China is developing multiple counter-space capabilities to degrade and deny adversary use of space-based assets during a crisis or conflict. The PLA is acquiring a range of technologies to improve China's counter-space capabilities. In addition to the development of directed-energy weapons and satellite jammers, China is also developing direct-ascent and co-orbital kinetic kill capabilities and has probably made progress on the anti-satellite missile system it tested in July 2014. China is employing more sophisticated satellite operations and is probably testing dual-use technologies in space that could be applied to counter-space missions."

Of course, it is not easy to discern the veracity of what China is attempting in space, for its programs are cloaked in paranoid levels of secrecy. Nevertheless, Chinese scholars often publish articles about the need for "destroying, damaging and interfering with the enemy's reconnaissanceand communications satellites".

It is obvious that China, should it enter a conflict with a country such as the USA, would target enemy navigation and early-warning satellites to render them inoperable and so blind and deafen the enemy. This threat to orbiting satellites is now being treated very seriously by the USA.

Indeed, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) published its "China Military Power" report earlier this year, delineating how China can use directed-energy weapons, direct-ascent ASAT missiles, electronic jammers, cyber attacks and small satellites to target the satellites of foreign nations.

Of interest in the 2019 report was a section on a laser weapon able to damage US military satellites in low-earth orbits, the first time the DIA has disclosed details of such a weapon.

The report stated, "China likely is pursuing laser weapons to disrupt, degrade or damage satellites and their sensors, and possibly already has a limited capability to employ laser systems against satellite sensors."

It added, giving actual dates: "China likely will field a ground-based laser weapon that can counter low-orbit space-based sensors by 2020, and by the mid-to-late 2020s, it may field higher-power systems that extend the threat to the structures of non-optical satellites."

China first used a ground-based laser to "dazzle" an orbiting American satellite in 2006, a year earlier than its infamous ASAT missile test. A laser strike of 300W per cm² could melt the optical glass on a satellite, or electro-optical (EO) detectors, control surfaces or solar panels could be damaged. Lasers could also disrupt GPS satellites that the USA military needs for pinpoint missile guidance.

Beijing stated in its 2015 White Paper: "China has all along advocated the peaceful use of outer space, opposed the weaponisation of and arms race in outer space, and taken an active part in international space cooperation. China will keep abreast of the dynamics of outer space, deal with security threats and challenges in that domain, and secure its space assets to serve its national economic and social development, and maintain outer space security."

Yet hypocrisy abounds. China warmly applauds the non-weaponisation of space in venues like the United Nations, and it uses "lawfare" to hide its own offensive developments in space.

Statements such as the PLA spokesman's response to India's ASAT test, "We hope all countries can take real actions to protect lasting peace and stability in the outer space," are therefore mere empty rhetoric.

Yet there is also a double-edged sword for China. As the PLA itself becomes more reliant on satellites, it becomes more vulnerable to American - and now Indian - ASAT interceptors.

India has just demonstrated to Beijing that it can create a viable force multiplier that places Chinese satellites at risk, despite the fact that this capability will remain nascent for the foreseeable future. No wonder, then, that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was pleased with India's first ASAT missile test.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ssive-margin-in-space-race-1491021-2019-04-01

Both china and India are puny states/ orgainizations with respect to space powers

Recent success seems to have gotten into heads of many people here..

Recent landing of a probe on a comet by Japanese. That's what makes you a space power..

Indian success is based exactly with frugal engineering.

China and India have long way to go

Putting man in space is only a gimmick. The idea of space technology is to use it for better communication and security. How will man going to space change that? Putting man into space is only meant for prestige and not for utility and hence it does not count

Wrong ideology
Future of human civilization is in space

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Salaam



I wonder if you'd follow this line of thinkibg when comparing India and Pakistan as well.


.

About China and India, I only said that India can't manufacture as much as China but can have all technology of China. This is because technology requires brains which India has whereas manufacturing requires resources which India lacks. But in case of Pakistan backed by other Islamic countries, there is massive quantities of petroleum, gas and minerals available which is much higher than what India can have. Total muslims are 1.8 billion vs total Hindus of 1.1 billion.

I never denied the size difference between Pakistan and India. Pakistan has support from other Islamic states. As history has shown, Pakistan has got massive funding from Arabs to set up nuclear and missile development programme. It also gets regular funding for any other defence projects and all current defence procurement are a result of this funding. So, considering Pakistan as separate from other Islamic states is wrong. Yet, none of the technological development of India has even close to be achieved by Islamic countries combined together. This is despite the fact that Islamic countries have more population and resources than India.

apparently you don't understand the fact that India doesn't have such capability to carry much payload into space. You can only launch nano satellites

India can launch over 10 ton to LEO by GSLV. But there is no requirement to do that as all military satellites have lower weight.

Learn to use cheap labor and dirty cheap service? Don't kid yourself, china space program has so much money, it's beyond what you Indian can ever imagine. That's why we put man and space station into space while you can only provide dirt cheap low altitude launch services.

What is the use of space station? How will it benefit anyone? Can you be more specific about it?

 

[God Parshuram]

Don't kid yourself, china space program has so much money, it's beyond what you Indian can ever imagine.

Mental mast***ation.

 

[Dungeness]

You are correct in saying MoM is a useless mission. But Chinese speaking of space station or man on space is as useless as our MoM.

However, the 104 satellites being launched is not useless. It has technology far more complex and makes use of many complex concepts which can be of dual use like in case of MIRV missiles. The capability to launch 100+ satellite can be used to launch over 10-15 payload as MIRV.

The main use of satellites is for defence and that being served is the most important criteria. India has sufficient technology to be at par with any other country of the world in terms of defensive use of space. So, this is enough

104 or 80 or 20 in one go are using the same technology, and there is no any difference in terms of MIRV capability. You guys made a big fuss about it, but it's as trivial as how many gods in Hindu religion. That's why I was questioning if our Indian friends actually know what it's important in space tech.

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

India placed 104 satellite in one mission still china is ahead.
India put multiple satellites in 3 orbit in today's mission still china is ahead.
India successfully reached MARS in copy book manner in first attempt and china failed measurably still china is ahead.
ISRO tested Scram jet engine to be used in rocket but still China is ahead.
India tested reusable rocket which will launch satellite and come back still china is ahead.
India's launch costs cheapest. India's new vehicle will bring down cost to 10% of current cost. New vehicle is coming this year still China is ahead.

So let us bow down to mighty China because they are much ahead of India and India will never be able to catch them.

Commentary

Not even in the same league that is.

India humiliating itself endlessly. In the piloted space race, 16 years after China's first astronaut, ISRO still unable to catch up and further delaying its first manned space launch. Now no earlier than 2022!

23rd February 2019

Even as the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is pushing for completion of the human space programme by the end of 2021, design changes required for the project might delay it further, say scientists at Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cit...delay-isros-manned-space-mission-1942466.html
​

Meanwhile in the lunar race, six years after China's first lunar landing, ISRO's lunar ambitions further delayed, as the lander just broke its two legs!

Apr 4, 2019

we found that Vikram (the lander) needed to be strengthened in its legs.

Vikram, the Lander on India’s ambitious mission that envisages to land a probe on Moon, has suffered minor injuries in two of its legs during a test late February, putting Chandrayaan-2 on the bench at least until May. But the need to find the most suitable launch window could see the mission take off only in the second half of the year.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
​

Meanwhile at ISRO's lunar space research facility: