China is the fulcrum of Pakistan's National Security Policy

[Zarvan]

 

[Beast]

It is a choice out of no choice.

 

[Shotgunner51]

It is a choice out of no choice.

Did you watch the video? Do note a significant faction of Pakistani populace loves the west (as all Chinese should've experienced here in PDF) just like India does, they will and can choose the west any time. Our two nations are pulled together by convergence of geo-economic interests aka the BRI or CPEC, and pushed together by common threat from India. But on China vs west, Pakistan will at best stay neutral, this is a choice.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Did you watch the video? Do note a significant faction of Pakistani populace loves the west (as seen here in PDF) just like India does, they will and can choose the west any time. Our two nations are pulled together by convergence of geo-economic interests aka the BRI or CPEC, and pushed together by common threat from India. But on China vs west, Pakistan will at best stay neutral, this is a choice.

they'll try to as much as they can unless US pushes pak into a corner of "choosing"
where you know choice is obvious

(also PDF isn't exactly representitive of Pak society as many are from Pak-western diaspora)

 

[TheSolution]

Did you watch the video? Do note a significant faction of Pakistani populace loves the west (as seen here in PDF) just like India does, they will and can choose the west any time. Our two nations are pulled together by convergence of geo-economic interests aka the BRI or CPEC, and pushed together by common threat from India. But on China vs west, Pakistan will at best stay neutral, this is a choice.

It's split actually, I'd say it's 50/50, don't underestimate how much some can hate America, I'd even say it's in favour of China. Keep in mind PDF has a large portion of foreign nationals, not Pakistani citizens.

But what matters is the policy makers' opinion, which will be neutral. We are not in a position to be choosing sides.

 

[Shotgunner51]

It's split actually, I'd say it's 50/50, don't underestimate how much some can hate America, I'd even say it's in favour of China. Keep in mind PDF has a large portion of foreign nationals, not Pakistani citizens.

But what matters is the policy makers' opinion, which will be neutral. We are not in a position to be choosing sides.

Yes actually I've mentioned this before, 50:50, half of Pakistani here are friendly towards China, interesting observation is that most of these friendlies seems to be residing in Pakistan not overseas.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Out majority people support china irrespective of that china have good relation with Chinese Muslim or not. We prefer to remain silent, and we don't interfere in their internal matters. It tells lot that we love china. But I agree that western countries have better living standard , equal opportunities, and no compromise on human rights laws, so no wonder that why people want to settle in Europe or western countries.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Out majority people support china irrespective of that china have good relation with Chinese Muslim or not. We prefer to remain silent, and we don't interfere in their internal matters.

Good to know that!

And that's a strong foundation for both countries to jointly tackle common missions: regional economic prosperity (BRI-CPEC), regional security threat (from India). The video also mentioned that the two forces have moved on from "interoperability" to "combined action", that's a great step of moving towards collective defensive/offensive relationship.

 

[SD 10]

Yes actually I've mentioned this before, 50:50, half of Pakistani here are friendly towards China, interesting observation is that most of these friendlies seems to be residing in Pakistan not overseas.

its more like 90/10 in general public. People just hate america but the elite that rules the country is another story!

 

[Beast]

Out majority people support china irrespective of that china have good relation with Chinese Muslim or not. We prefer to remain silent, and we don't interfere in their internal matters. It tells lot that we love china. But I agree that western countries have better living standard , equal opportunities, and no compromise on human rights laws, so no wonder that why people want to settle in Europe or western countries.

Its not a matter of choosing to live in China or west. China do not encourage any immigrant unless you got some special skill or abilities like Eileen Gu. One thing people choose Western becos they welcome immigrants. The gate is always open for them but for China, the gate is closed.

Did you watch the video? Do note a significant faction of Pakistani populace loves the west (as all Chinese should've experienced here in PDF) just like India does, they will and can choose the west any time. Our two nations are pulled together by convergence of geo-economic interests aka the BRI or CPEC, and pushed together by common threat from India. But on China vs west, Pakistan will at best stay neutral, this is a choice.

This website supposed to be manage by some with authority in Pakistan although server is in US.
There is a big reason why PDF is banned by China.

 

[kursed]

Did you watch the video? Do note a significant faction of Pakistani populace loves the west (as all Chinese should've experienced here in PDF) just like India does, they will and can choose the west any time. Our two nations are pulled together by convergence of geo-economic interests aka the BRI or CPEC, and pushed together by common threat from India. But on China vs west, Pakistan will at best stay neutral, this is a choice.

You have to keep in mind that Chinese engagement with Pakistan has been exclusively military-centric until CPEC happened. OTOH, West has all Pakistanis known since inception, be it about large infrastructure projects (dams, IMF, road projects etc) or humanitarian (receiving major humanitarian aid from Pakistan’s inception to more recently the huge earthquake in early 2000s). You can’t blame the population for thinking that way.

At the same time, there’s a huge strategic reorientation in play now for over a decade now. And as more of these people reach higher offices in Pakistan, you’ll see an entirely different view of China in Pak. Already a lot more students from Pak now are coming to China. Or at least were before Covid happened. The people to people interaction has increased a lot too.

My point is that this is a process. And you’ll see the entire situation take a 180 degree turn.

 

[Shotgunner51]

You have to keep in mind that Chinese engagement with Pakistan has been exclusively military-centric until CPEC happened. OTOH, West has all Pakistanis known since inception, be it about large infrastructure projects (dams, IMF, road projects etc) or humanitarian (receiving major humanitarian aid from Pakistan’s inception to more recently the huge earthquake in early 2000s). You can’t blame the population for thinking that way.

At the same time, there’s a huge strategic reorientation in play now for over a decade now. And as more of these people reach higher offices in Pakistan, you’ll see an entirely different view of China in Pak. Already a lot more students from Pak now are coming to China. Or at least were before Covid happened. The people to people interaction has increased a lot too.

My point is that this is a process. And you’ll see the entire situation take a 180 degree turn.

Yep that's true!

In fact I'm quite calm towards the current situation, despite many Pakistani are pro-west (even anti-China) the two nations are converging steadily in common BRI/CPEC mission, which naturally will take time to complete aka Physical infrastructure - 5G Telecom (AI, Blockchain) - Commerce. The two militaries are moving towards combined operation vis-a-vis India and perhaps Afghanistan, elevating our security to a new level.

When it comes to China vs west, the war is fought in a multiple of domains from SLOC control, game-changing techs (e.g. AI, supercomputing, robotics), world trade, metals & energy resources, global financial order (currency) to thermonuclear/space armament race, I believe China should take care of it without dragging friendly Pakistan into the mess.

 

[kursed]

Yep that's true!

In fact I'm quite calm towards the current situation, despite many Pakistani are pro-west (even anti-China) the two nations are converging steadily in common BRI/CPEC mission, which naturally will take time to complete aka Physical infrastructure - 5G Telecom (AI, Blockchain) - Commerce. The two militaries are moving towards combined operation vis-a-vis India and perhaps Afghanistan, elevating our security to a new level.

When it comes to China vs west, the war is fought in a multiple of domains from SLOC control, techs (e.g. AI, robotics), global financial order (currency) to thermonuclear/space armament race, I believe China should take care of it without dragging Pakistan into the mess.

Pakistan and China are neighbors. You can change your friends but not your neighbors. Given that fact, it only makes sense for Pak and China to have a mutually beneficial relationship in the future.

As far as China vs West is concerned, a huge portion of it will be dominated by relational politics and not military. And you’d always find Pakistan siding with China there (a recent example would be Pak avoiding the democracy conference in the US or Uighur issue).

In terms of military, within the decade you will find PLAN and PN, operate much more closely than any other arm of Pakistan’s military. Western IOR is important for PLAN and PN, and there’s a convergence of strategic goals for both in operational domain.

Pakistan’s currently held back due to its own shortfalls in economic and educational venues, if it overcomes them - its role within the relationship will automatically improve. And won’t feel as transaction based to Pakistanis, as it does now.

P.S.

I’ve been reading Chinese forums since the last 10-12 years now, and know that their view of Pakistanis isn’t entirely rosy either. They’ve considered the country, too religious for its own good. And not as modern or rich or of any tangible value. Their view of Pakistanis, incl those visiting the country / or studying there hasn’t been too well either. But I believe this was mostly due to only second tier of Pakistani students heading to China unlike now, where it’s fast becoming a first choice for many. So that’ll change too. People to people interaction in this case is important for both sides to collaborate more.

 

[Dual Wielder]

interesting observation is that most of these friendlies seems to be residing in Pakistan not overseas.

Not necessarily true, I'm a UK born 3rd gen British Pakistani, and through my observation from the Pakistani community here in general in the last 20 or so years the US hasn't been looked upon favorably in terms of its foreign misadventures. PDF is an odd case, since its an defense oriented site, typical fanboyism blinds all rational. Still if You had a poll here between US and China, the latter would win no doubt. China has been the most reliable ally to Pakistan for nearly five decades and counting, and with the aftermath of IOK annexation, where OIC member states predominantly stayed silent on the Kashmir genocide, China has gained much more respect in my eyes (being ethnically Kashmiri) than any other 'ally' combined, plus watching US cheerleaders squirm over China's rise is music to my ears...

 

[TheSolution]

This guy is suspicious, I feel he serves an ulterior purpose here...

Exaggerates a lot of things and severely underplays India's capability