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China is going to provide most sophisticated submarine to Pakistan

but they are looking for sub which is capable of firing nukes so to counter indian advantage of akula nd arihant
balance in power or any other nation who thinks to attack will think twice
@Alpha1
Sorry Didn't get the mention.
We can have a sea based deterrent by minor modifications , to our Agosta90Bs which can launch BABUR Cruise missile from their torpedo tubes
 
Last month Janes already reported that PN buying S-20 submarines.. They are scaled down version of Type-041( Yuan Class).. Not so sophisticated and special for Pakistan, S-20 is an export version.. Any country having money and good contact with China can buy that..


Thats 'speculation', just like the Qing class subs. PN will not disclose the actual make of the sub until the deal is signed.
 
Why SSKs?
''Designed to enhance the performance of modern conventional (diesel-electric) submarines AIP is a key emerging technology that essentially provides a “closed cycle” operation through a low-power electrical source supplementing the battery, which may extend the submarine’s underwater endurance up to two weeks or more.
AIP systems close the endurance gap between nuclear and conventional submarines, and mitigate increasing risks of detection caused by advanced anti-submarine warfare technologies - from modern electro-optical systems and surface radars to magnetic sensors, active and passive sonars, and airborne surveillance radars. Advanced AIP technologies thus promise significant operational advantages and tactical flexibility[1].


SSK's with Air-independent propulsion, can be virtually silent as compared to Nuclear submarines
as for sea based detterent
In November 2004, the Swedish Government approved a proposal for the US Navy to lease HMS Gotland and crew for one year to participate in naval exercises. Gotland arrived at the Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego in June 2005. The submarine will operate in the opposing force (OPFOR) role. In June 2006, the lease was extended for a further year. In July 2007, HMS Gotland left San Diego to return to Sweden[2].

SSK have caused carrier groups headaches during excercises
scope_tijgerhaai2_uss_america_med_oct93_2.jpg


Dutch Submarines: Periscope shots

" . . . . .during NATO exercise "North Star" in March '89 the Dutch
Submarine "Zwaardvis" was the only orange (enemy) submarine to successfully
stalk and sink a blue (allied) aircraft carrier although orange SSN
(=nuclear driven subs) were participating . . . ."
From: " The Changing Role of NATO submarines", Naval Forces 5/89, vol X." by Norman Polmar.[3]
If we think Pakistan specific:

Cost of typical AIP sub is 100 million USD to 250 million USD, compared to 1,6 – 3 billion USD for typical nuclear submarine; .[4]
In shallower waters AIP subs are just as effective as nuclear submarines

As Capt. Tom Abernethy, who commands the sub-hunting Destroyer Squadron 22 based in Norfolk , Va. , said: “Shallow water, you get a lot of noise reverberation and additional traffic, and you’re fighting in somebody else’s back yard which they know pretty well …. [In that environment, even a diesel sub] is absolutely a real threat, a formidable threat …. ”. Furthermore, unlike nuclear submarine, diesel submarine can hide on the floor, completely silent and immobile, until something passes nearby. And even with usage of active sonar, it is not easy to discern submarine from its surroundings.




[1]Submarine Trends in Asia Pacific: Air-Independent Propulsion A Game Changer?
By Michael Raska[2]SSK Gotland Class (Type A19) - Naval Technology
[3]Dutch Submarines: News of 1999

@Rashid Mahmood @Secur @jaibi @FaujHistorian
 
Chinese defence minister meets PM, Naval chief - DAWN.COM

531037ca02c28.jpg



ISLAMABAD: The Chinese Defence Minister Chang Wanquan on Friday held meetings with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and the Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Asif Sandila, DawnNews reported.

Earlier during the day, the Chinese defence minister met with Admiral Asif Sandila and agreed on further enhancing defence cooperation.

Both the sides also discussed naval programs underway.

Also, Adm Sandila said that Pakistan Navy would seek China’s cooperation to increase its defence capacity.

"co-operation in warships and submarines, and also other classified programmes 'nuff said.
 
for the members who are asking s20 specs from me, I had posted them a year earlier

Chinese Shipbuilder CSOC unveiled new Frigate, LHD and Submarine designs
China’s Submarine Fleet

CSOC S20 SSK Submarine

CSOC was also showcasing a new submarine on its stand at IDEX: The S20.

The CSOC representative gave us the following specifications for this new submarine:
Length: 66 meters
Breadth: 8 meters
Maximum Draft: 8 meters
Displacement (submerged): 2,200 tons
Maximum speed: about 20 Knots
Crew: 40

The person declined to disclose the maximum depth and endurance of the S20. We were told the weapons fit may varry according to customer requirements but the S20 may accommodate heavy torpedoes and anti-ship missiles from six torpedo tubes and deploy mines and special forces. It may also be fitted with AIP (air-independent propulsion) system if a customer requires.

Finally the CSOC representative declined to comment any similarities of the S20 with the existing Type 041 (Yuan class) submarine currently in service with the Chinese Navy.
 
I heard that Pakistan buy submarines is not equipped with the AIP system of the yuan class submarines, but still reserved the refitting of AIP space. Yuan class submarines is a conventional attack submarine Chinese most advanced, can not be said to be the best in the world, also it is the first level in the world.
Some people say that Pakistan might buy the Qing class submarines, but that estimate is not possible. Because the Qing class submarine is just China an experimental submarine
 
I heard that Pakistan buy submarines is not equipped with the AIP system of the yuan class submarines, but still reserved the refitting of AIP space. Yuan class submarines is a conventional attack submarine Chinese most advanced, can not be said to be the best in the world, also it is the first level in the world.
Some people say that Pakistan might buy the Qing class submarines, but that estimate is not possible. Because the Qing class submarine is just China an experimental submarine

No specific submarine had been finalized yet by PN.
 
Hi, the PN might not have a lot of funds, but their high command is not clueless. They were one of the first navies to induct AIP submarines, and retroffitted them to all the Agosta 90Bs. As such, the Chinese subs will definitely have AIP, it is just the most logical approach.

Kindly please see the article posted below. Thanks!

Submarine Tech Outpacing ASW | Defense content from Aviation Week


Opinion: Submarine Tech Outpacing ASW
Not talking won’t make subs go away
May 13, 2014 Bill Sweetman | Aviation Week & Space Technology

A version of this article appears in the May 12 edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology.
The tactical balance between the surface warship and the submarine has strategic impact. The submarine is not made for a show of force. Its principal weapon is designed not to damage a ship, but to sink it—rapidly and probably with much loss of life. It’s a sure way to shift the trajectory of any conflict in a more violent direction.

The best deterrent against submarine attack is robust defense—but as little as surface sailors like to discuss it, that defense has seldom been less assured.
Modern diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) are very hard to detect. It’s not that SSKs with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems are much quieter, but they mitigate the SSK’s drawback: lack of speed and endurance on quiet electric power. When the Swedish AIP boat Gotland operated with the U.S. Navy out of San Diego in 2005-07, the Navy’s surface combatants turned up all too often in a photo album acquired by the submarine’s mast.
AIP submarines are a high priority in the budgets of nations such as Singapore, South Korea and Japan. Russia has struggled with its Lada-class boats, but persisted, and is selling them to China. Sweden, whose Kockums yard developed the AIP technology for Japan’s big 4,100-ton Soryu-class subs, had trouble getting its A26 replacement submarine program started. In an indication of its importance, Saab will buy the Kockums yard back for Sweden from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems.
Whether based on the Swedish Stirling-cycle engine or the fuel cells favored by TKMS and Russia, AIP seems to be here to stay. Lithium-ion batteries will further increase underwater performance. Kockums advertises another step in invisibility called Ghost (genuine holistic stealth), including hull-shaping and coatings.
Other improvements are making the submarine more elusive and lethal. Masts with high-definition cameras are as clear as direct-vision optics, so the mast needs only to break the surface and make a single sweep to provide a full horizon view. Finmeccanica’s WASS division and Atlas Electronik offer modern all-electric torpedoes with multiple guidance modes, from fiber-optic to wake-homing, and back-breaking influence fuzes that work too well for comfort (see photo).
Antisubmarine warfare (ASW) has not stagnated, but it shows signs of disarray. After the end of the Cold War stopped the Soviet Union’s push for quieter submarines, the U.S. scrapped improvements to the Lockheed P-3 aircraft and its replacement. The carrier-based Lockheed S-3 Viking went the same way, and the U.K., more recently, retired the Nimrod and canceled its deeply flawed BAE-built MRA4 replacement. ASW assets and crews have been diverted to reconnaissance missions in overland and littoral wars. The U.S. Navy’s strategy for the new Boeing P-8A Poseidon is to get the airframes first, because P-3s are wearing out.
The Navy’s ASW future hinges on two new technologies: multistatic, active, coherent (MAC) acoustics; and automated radar detection of periscopes. Planned for the Increment 2 P-8A, MAC is a big change from today’s sonobuoy systems (which are mostly passive, their active modes relying on noise sources that can be as simple as an explosive squib). MAC is likely to be quite costly to operate: The P-8A carries many more buoys than a P-3, and they are more complex. Testing so far has not been a disaster, but it has been limited. One series of tests last year was truncated so the test aircraft and crew could chase drug-runners. Picking real targets from false ones and clutter is still down to operators.
Better ways to detect periscopes— with the radar cross-section of a floating Coke can—have been under study since the early 1990s, but the Navy has vacillated on deployment plans. First, Automatic Radar Periscope Detection and Discrimination (ARPDD) technology was to be used on upgraded P-3 radars. But in 2005—after the Gotland tests started, which may not have been a coincidence—the plans changed to stress close-in defense of the aircraft carrier, with ARPDD used first on Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk helicopters and on a radar mounted on the carrier itself. ARPDD disappeared from the P-8 radar requirement, then returned. More recently, the carrier-mounted radar has been discontinued and surface combatants will have ARPDD.
But the key to telling the periscope and the Coke can apart is that one of them is moving purposefully, and an electronic mast that surfaces intermittently makes an even less-obvious track than a direct-view periscope that has to stay up to function. That change was not in sight when ARPDD was conceived.
Surface warfare may be heading for a strategic dilemma. The surface combatant is vital for many missions, but its utility could be drastically limited if a submarine threat imposes a no-go area. And as more new AIP subs enter service, denying the problem is less and less of an option.
 
So wait, you guys paid the Russians for a product and Russians sub contracted some parts to China? Surely you guys got the short end of the deal there? That is like Pakistan ordering an F16 and finding out that LM had the avionics outsourced to India?
he he he.., not India but China
 

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