China Indonesia Sign High-Speed Rail Deal Today

[Aepsilons]

It's a pleasure to meet you too @Indos and you probably don't know this but I've been following this forum for quite some time and haven read many of your posts too. Kenji endorses this forum months ago and have largely remained on lurker status due to the toxicity of personal attacks, rather one is the reason I haven't registered till now. As for work I am an Industrial Engineer and yes I am at the cusp of my dissertation, Kenji was a class mate of mine.

It took you long enough to register ! lol.

 

[prima99]

From my knowledge of your country, Japanese who have visited Indonesia say only very good things about the country and the people. Should we be reminded that it is important to see the people to people relations of my country and yours should not be confused with trade deals decisions. Indonesia as a country that is developing should select the best choice that has favorable loan charter for her long term. The recent selection for China's CNNC is only relagative on the competition of both China and Japan in regards to Indonesian HSR bids , from what I can see.

I want to also stress that tho this deal went to China's favor , we should not be blind to the fact that Japan has been awarded numerous development projects in Indonesia. It is normal in competitive bids, and I think readers here should understand that.

well, i know that compliments are in the japanese culture. i'd like people to know both the good side and the bad side of my homeland, just to be fair for all. i oftenly monitoring news regarding Indonesia on Japanese youtube (although i have a very little understanding in japanese language) just to keep an eye. lots of Indonesians doesn't know about Japanese society. they're keep on thinking that Japan is a miraculous country, as miraculous as doraemon's pocket. hence if you go to indonesia, you'll be surrounded by school girls with curiosity. there is a local film documenting about how expensive is the cost of living in tokyo and people had to overwork everyday, yet somehow it easily erased from the mind of the commoners.

regarding projects, japan should not be drowned in sour grapes over the loss. this is not the first time japan gets to develop projects in Indonesia (yet this is the very first japan loss in indonesian development). there are other 3 big islands waiting for development. even if (someday) all the big islands are fully developed, other 7000 smaller islands are waiting for developments too.

 

[Edison Chen]

Whatever is best for Indonesia, it is best also for Japan.

I don't understand, in which way is this China-Indonesia deal good for Japan, can you please fill me in?

 

[Nike]

I don't understand, in which way is this China-Indonesia deal good for Japan, can you please fill me in?

they can learn a thing or two why they lose this tender project and made some commitments to correct those mistakes

 

[Aepsilons]

Sister

Bro, don't tell me you thought my dear Madoka-chan was a guy all this time? lol. I think she's definitely one tough cookie tho, she doesn't bullshit when she wants to express her views, she's direct, to the point, and well knows more about military equipment than some of the men in here, to be honest, LOL!

But yea, she's cool tho, but to be honest I like her because she has Japanese blood in her veins. But i'm just being honest, too. LOL!

 

[Nike]

Well absolutely no corporations regardless of their nationalities will miss this huge and fast growing market, especially those highly competitive ones from Japan, China and the likes. Infrastructure, always my favorite subject! It will help Indonesia further upgrade its industrial-exports economy in Java, and get other resources-rich regions like Sumatra to join the game. I have confidence on many Chinese corps (not all), hope they compete well and deliver results!

A bit off-topic if I may. Geo-politically speaking, Japan will naturally seek security assurance for her maritime life-lines, hence Indonesia is naturally one critical security partner. While China despite being a continental country, her eastern seaboard relies on exactly the same maritime routes. All sides should continue to get engaged in improving security assurance for these routes, well security is also a business, let's discuss in a separate thread.



Sister? Pardon me for my ignorance in Indonesian geo-economy my lady, it's all Nihonjin's fault LOL!

Upgrading infra is also big business, well so big that naturally needs to be phased out in execution. Progressively my dear, no rush.

hmm the ranking of big islands/regions in Indonesia from the most developed ones,

1. Java
2. Bali
3. Sumatra
4. Borneo
5. Sulawesi
6. Western Nusatenggara (Sumbawa and others)
7. Papua region (the most fastest developing region lately)
8. Maluku regions (Seram and others)
9. Eastern Nusatenggara regions

 

[Aepsilons]

Well absolutely no corporations regardless of their nationalities will miss this huge and fast growing market, especially those highly competitive ones from Japan, China and the likes. Infrastructure, always my favorite subject! It will help Indonesia further upgrade its industrial-exports economy in Java, and get other resources-rich regions like Sumatra to join the game. I have confidence on many Chinese corps (not all), hope they compete well and deliver results!

A bit off-topic if I may. Geo-politically speaking, Japan will naturally seek security assurance for her maritime life-lines, hence Indonesia is naturally one critical security partner. While China despite being a continental country, her eastern seaboard relies on exactly the same maritime routes. All sides should continue to get engaged in improving security assurance for these routes, well security is also a business, let's discuss in a separate thread.

Would definitely be elated to discuss this with you on a different thread, especially in regards to geopolitical considerations in how Japan wishes to nurture relations and partnerships in our , as what you put it, "maritime life lines". If you have access to academic periodicals, bro, there is an article written by Dr. Sadayuki Takii who wrote on Japanese Joint Venture Paradigms in Indonesia, a great read for those who are into progressive analysis of regional Asia-focus industrial revolution of the post-colonial epoch. In fact i'll link you the url:
西南学院大学経済学論集 (西南学院大学学術研究所)｜書誌詳細｜国立国会図書館サーチ

 

[AndrewJin]

Land acquisition is painful in any country. Protests are normal. Compensation should be high, as in China's case, most people feel happy about such acquisition, can be rich overnight. My place will be rebuilt, I am excited!

 

[Aepsilons]

Well absolutely no corporations regardless of their nationalities will miss this huge and fast growing market, especially those highly competitive ones from Japan, China and the likes. Infrastructure, always my favorite subject! It will help Indonesia further upgrade its industrial-exports economy in Java, and get other resources-rich regions like Sumatra to join the game. I have confidence on many Chinese corps (not all), hope they compete well and deliver results!

I have always, always argued for greater Sino-Japanese cooperation in developing the Asian region, in particular the ASEAN framework since this region seems to be heavily inundated with issues ranging from geopolitical sensitivities (security , resource-related matters) to integration policies that have called for freedom of travel for inter-ASEAN members , and the FTA framework that Japan, China have with in ASEAN.

In this regard i see the competition between Japan and China in ASEAN as not something considered negative since these are mostly developmentalist based and focused, why in fact prior to China's opening of her doors to market economics through the leadership of Deng Xiaopeng, it was mostly Japan that helped fund the development of our key partners in SEATO now ASEAN through platforms like JICA-ODA, through ADB-loans, to private processes as well.

As you may see the amount of capital needed to develop the region is significant and the rise of China as the 2nd largest economic machine , with the potential to become the largest economic machine in the world is rather positive for the region. Even for Japan. China now has opened her doors to ASEAN through individual FTAs, this streamlines trade, provides preferential treatment , reduces instances of tariffs for both markets. With the recent genesis of China's AIIB, China is now directly providing the necessary developmental loans to help the region in their quest for development.

Developing nations in Asia like Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Afghanistan, Iran et al -- can now avail of ADB, IMF, and also AIIB. The point is that the competition amongst these institutions is not to be seen as a negative, but should be appreciated since the end result is increased qualitative measures on the other two institutions to offer better 'rates' to applicable countries. Yes? Competition drives qualitative improvement , which in the long run improves organizational efficacy , output, and production capability.

Now that i covered the "business management" theoretics part, let me give you some practical , real-time example of how Japan has been cooperating with Indonesia in regards to infrastructural development(s). Okay?

The Japanese financial institutions have been providing financing for the telecommunications company Telekomunikasi Indonesia. Telekomunikasi Indonesia has received funds from Japanese banks to help finance the purchase of submarine fibre optic cable systems form NEC coprorations to be used as part of the Southeast Asia Japan Cable System (SJC) network. The full loan was valued at $32 million, with the Bank of Japan for International Cooperation (JBIC) provied $18 million and Mizuho Corporate Bank $13 million. Nexi has provided buyer's credit insurance on Mizuho portion of the loan. The insurance covers 97.5% political risk and 95% commercial risk, with a tenor of six years.

Get this, @Shotgunner51 , SJC is an international project that links Japan with Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines, Brunei, Thailand and Indonesia with over 11,000 km of sub-sea telecommunications cable. So you see, bro, as the Southeast Asian region sees rapid economic growth and expansion, the demands for internet and telecom service will increase. As we speak the network growth is growing to 18,500 km; and this is a direct venture of Japan with China and Indonesia and the greater Asia-Pacific Region. Mind you, bro, this is happening sans political differences and gepolitik getting in the "way". It is a testament to the level of maturity in regards to how Japan and China cooperate and compete with each other in the region , case point in Indonesia. Chinese competition breeds Japanese qualitative improvement; Japanese improvement breeds Chinese counter-qualitative improvement. This is the application of Kaizen theory, on a pragmatist nature.



Regards,
Kenji
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Shotgunner51]

Bro, don't tell me you thought my dear Madoka-chan was a guy all this time? lol. I think she's definitely one tough cookie tho, she doesn't bullshit when she wants to express her views, she's direct, to the point, and well knows more about military equipment than some of the men in here, to be honest, LOL!

But yea, she's cool tho, but to be honest I like her because she has Japanese blood in her veins. But i'm just being honest, too. LOL!

I assume everyone here a guy by default until told otherwise LOL.
Cool, one more known female member here, great!

I have always, always argued for greater Sino-Japanese cooperation in developing the Asian region, in particular the ASEAN framework since this region seems to be heavily inundated with issues ranging from geopolitical sensitivities (security , resource-related matters) to integration policies that have called for freedom of travel for inter-ASEAN members , and the FTA framework that Japan, China have with in ASEAN.

In this regard i see the competition between Japan and China in ASEAN as not something considered negative since these are mostly developmentalist based and focused, why in fact prior to China's opening of her doors to market economics through the leadership of Deng Xiaopeng, it was mostly Japan that helped fund the development of our key partners in SEATO now ASEAN through platforms like JICA-ODA, through ADB-loans, to private processes as well.

As you may see the amount of capital needed to develop the region is significant and the rise of China as the 2nd largest economic machine , with the potential to become the largest economic machine in the world is rather positive for the region. Even for Japan. China now has opened her doors to ASEAN through individual FTAs, this streamlines trade, provides preferential treatment , reduces instances of tariffs for both markets. With the recent genesis of China's AIIB, China is now directly providing the necessary developmental loans to help the region in their quest for development.

Developing nations in Asia like Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Afghanistan, Iran et al -- can now avail of ADB, IMF, and also AIIB. The point is that the competition amongst these institutions is not to be seen as a negative, but should be appreciated since the end result is increased qualitative measures on the other two institutions to offer better 'rates' to applicable countries. Yes? Competition drives qualitative improvement , which in the long run improves organizational efficacy , output, and production capability.

Now that i covered the "business management" theoretics part, let me give you some practical , real-time example of how Japan has been cooperating with Indonesia in regards to infrastructural development(s). Okay?

The Japanese financial institutions have been providing financing for the telecommunications company Telekomunikasi Indonesia. Telekomunikasi Indonesia has received funds from Japanese banks to help finance the purchase of submarine fibre optic cable systems form NEC coprorations to be used as part of the Southeast Asia Japan Cable System (SJC) network. The full loan was valued at $32 million, with the Bank of Japan for International Cooperation (JBIC) provied $18 million and Mizuho Corporate Bank $13 million. Nexi has provided buyer's credit insurance on Mizuho portion of the loan. The insurance covers 97.5% political risk and 95% commercial risk, with a tenor of six years.

Get this, @Shotgunner51 , SJC is an international project that links Japan with Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines, Brunei, Thailand and Indonesia with over 11,000 km of sub-sea telecommunications cable. So you see, bro, as the Southeast Asian region sees rapid economic growth and expansion, the demands for internet and telecom service will increase. As we speak the network growth is growing to 18,500 km; and this is a direct venture of Japan with China and Indonesia and the greater Asia-Pacific Region. Mind you, bro, this is happening sans political differences and gepolitik getting in the "way". It is a testament to the level of maturity in regards to how Japan and China cooperate and compete with each other in the region , case point in Indonesia. Chinese competition breeds Japanese qualitative improvement; Japanese improvement breeds Chinese counter-qualitative improvement. This is the application of Kaizen theory, on a pragmatist nature.



Regards,
Kenji
@Nihonjin1051

Very nice, it's gonna be a rich-content subject, let's start a new thread!

hmm the ranking of big islands/regions in Indonesia from the most developed ones,

1. Java
2. Bali
3. Sumatra
4. Borneo
5. Sulawesi
6. Western Nusatenggara (Sumbawa and others)
7. Papua region (the most fastest developing region lately)
8. Maluku regions (Seram and others)
9. Eastern Nusatenggara regions

Thanks my dear! After this HSR project, gonna dig deeper into the infra development.

 

[xunzi]

Contrary to many, I was hoping we lost this deal to Japan. I would love to see how Japan handle building and managing HSR outside of their comfort zone in Japan.

 

[Defunct]

This deal is a win-win for both countries. Congrats, Indonesia/China.