China & India Border incursions News and Discussions
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President
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I am, since that is the issue which needs to be kept burning to needle China..like they try needle us on every single issue, stapled visas, AP , sikkim issue , Tent party and so on...
Ayush
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NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had tried to soothe a frazzled nation by saying that the Chinese incursion into Depsang Valley in eastern Ladakh on April 15 was a "localized" affair, and the government had a plan to resolve it.
But strategic experts believe this latest round of border problems between India and China is the most serious till date, and unlike the government, they don't think the Chinese are going to vacate any time soon and that this may lead to other similar face-offs in other sectors along the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
Bhaskar Roy, Chinese security expert, says, this time India has not depended on its own strength to stand up to China. There is a Chinese saying, "Respect the strong, blackmail the weak".
Former foreign secretary, Kanwal Sibal, observes, while the PM has suggested that the matter should not be escalated, the fact that the Chinese ambassador was summoned by the foreign secretary has already done so. Any Chinese intrusion across any point at the LAC will always be a local affair and hence, says Sibal, the implication is that the Chinese can keep doing it and we will keep reacting to it like this in the face of "uncompromising attitude of the Chinese and their determination to question our sovereignty.
Strategic affairs expert Brahma Chellaney says, it will be nationally demeaning if either foreign minister Salman Khurshid's visit to Beijing on May 9 or Chinese Premier Li's Keqiang trip to India on May 20 takes place while the intruders stay put and fortify their positions. Singh has given only comfort to the aggressor by his remark that the intrusion was a local affair, he says, with Beijing welcoming his comment. "To make amends, Singh should at least signal that good-neighbourly ties demand respect for the territorial status quo and that he hopes Beijing will withdraw its intruding troops so that Khurshid's Beijing visit and Premier Li's New Delhi stopover can go ahead," he says.
Jayadeva Ranade, another China expert, says, this intrusion was unprovoked, but this is not an "isolated" incident, as the government is trying to show. There have been similar incursions in many areas along the LAC particularly since 2008, he says. "Beijing remains transparently unmoved by the adverse media publicity and damage it has caused to India-China relations. It has neither moved to resolve the situation despite three flag meetings at the level of local army commanders and communications from New Delhi requesting resolution. Beijing has thus made it abundantly clear that it will defuse the situation only at a time of its choosing. Beijing's stance confirms too that the stand-off is not a local incident provoked by the action of a local commander, but one initiated with the full knowledge of China's senior leadership," Ranade explains. He says that the timing may be coinciding with Singh's Japan visit and probably be a signal from China warning India against New Delhi's Tokyo outreach. "Beijing is adept at using a blend of threats and promise of military retaliation to deter an adversary from taking actions contrary to Beijing's interests," he adds.
While the PM's statement would appear to substantiate the Indian official position that the conflicting perceptions of the LAC in the Western sector has resulted into this situation at the Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), says Alka Acharya of the Institute of Chinese Studies, an early resolution does not seem imminent. "To that extent it is localized in northern Ladakh, south of the Karakoram Pass. But to the extent that it has brought about a situation which earlier "intrusions" did not, it has to be treated with more than the usual response," she says.
"In many ways, the responses have been initiated but the manner in which the talks are continuing, an early resolution does not seem imminent. We appear to be reaching the point where both sides are upholding the position that they are operating in their own territory- question is will both agree to restoring status quo ante," she adds.
Chinese are not going to vacate Ladakh anytime soon, strategic experts feel - The Times of India
But strategic experts believe this latest round of border problems between India and China is the most serious till date, and unlike the government, they don't think the Chinese are going to vacate any time soon and that this may lead to other similar face-offs in other sectors along the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
Bhaskar Roy, Chinese security expert, says, this time India has not depended on its own strength to stand up to China. There is a Chinese saying, "Respect the strong, blackmail the weak".
Former foreign secretary, Kanwal Sibal, observes, while the PM has suggested that the matter should not be escalated, the fact that the Chinese ambassador was summoned by the foreign secretary has already done so. Any Chinese intrusion across any point at the LAC will always be a local affair and hence, says Sibal, the implication is that the Chinese can keep doing it and we will keep reacting to it like this in the face of "uncompromising attitude of the Chinese and their determination to question our sovereignty.
Strategic affairs expert Brahma Chellaney says, it will be nationally demeaning if either foreign minister Salman Khurshid's visit to Beijing on May 9 or Chinese Premier Li's Keqiang trip to India on May 20 takes place while the intruders stay put and fortify their positions. Singh has given only comfort to the aggressor by his remark that the intrusion was a local affair, he says, with Beijing welcoming his comment. "To make amends, Singh should at least signal that good-neighbourly ties demand respect for the territorial status quo and that he hopes Beijing will withdraw its intruding troops so that Khurshid's Beijing visit and Premier Li's New Delhi stopover can go ahead," he says.
Jayadeva Ranade, another China expert, says, this intrusion was unprovoked, but this is not an "isolated" incident, as the government is trying to show. There have been similar incursions in many areas along the LAC particularly since 2008, he says. "Beijing remains transparently unmoved by the adverse media publicity and damage it has caused to India-China relations. It has neither moved to resolve the situation despite three flag meetings at the level of local army commanders and communications from New Delhi requesting resolution. Beijing has thus made it abundantly clear that it will defuse the situation only at a time of its choosing. Beijing's stance confirms too that the stand-off is not a local incident provoked by the action of a local commander, but one initiated with the full knowledge of China's senior leadership," Ranade explains. He says that the timing may be coinciding with Singh's Japan visit and probably be a signal from China warning India against New Delhi's Tokyo outreach. "Beijing is adept at using a blend of threats and promise of military retaliation to deter an adversary from taking actions contrary to Beijing's interests," he adds.
While the PM's statement would appear to substantiate the Indian official position that the conflicting perceptions of the LAC in the Western sector has resulted into this situation at the Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), says Alka Acharya of the Institute of Chinese Studies, an early resolution does not seem imminent. "To that extent it is localized in northern Ladakh, south of the Karakoram Pass. But to the extent that it has brought about a situation which earlier "intrusions" did not, it has to be treated with more than the usual response," she says.
"In many ways, the responses have been initiated but the manner in which the talks are continuing, an early resolution does not seem imminent. We appear to be reaching the point where both sides are upholding the position that they are operating in their own territory- question is will both agree to restoring status quo ante," she adds.
Chinese are not going to vacate Ladakh anytime soon, strategic experts feel - The Times of India
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in my opinion govt shld do wat it is doing bt as well let local army officers handle the situation as they want it to handle..i thnk beijing is doing the same..at the tym they say they wanted a dialogue nd at same tym they r lettng PLA to take decision if they want to retreat or nt..
Invincible INDIAN
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Today Antony had another meeting with NSA and chiefs of defence forces. Most probably tomorrow would be third flag meeting at Brigadier ranks.
I am sure there must be a plan B if pla does not move to status quo. Either way, but this issue is going to resolve.
I am sure there must be a plan B if pla does not move to status quo. Either way, but this issue is going to resolve.
Border negoations going on for decades with no solution in sight. Whn China is willing to resolve conflicts with all except us, then that tells me something is wrong with our perception of friendly ties.
See the only way to counter this is engage in a world wide media blitz.....force news, social media, etc to pick up these incidents. Paint China in a negative light. The only way to force CHina's hand in a peaceful manner is to expose their ways. That means to use video cameras, record such incidents and post on the web. Don;t allow dubious ppl to copy and re edit such pics.
Are any of you aware that Western or world media has not picked this up?
Chinese govt is telling chinese people they arent even there, read on weibo.
Soon they will run back and CCP will say Indians were lying and we were never even there.
See the only way to counter this is engage in a world wide media blitz.....force news, social media, etc to pick up these incidents. Paint China in a negative light. The only way to force CHina's hand in a peaceful manner is to expose their ways. That means to use video cameras, record such incidents and post on the web. Don;t allow dubious ppl to copy and re edit such pics.
Are any of you aware that Western or world media has not picked this up?
President
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if China is not vacating their posts or tents , there is a grid lock now- since verbal warnings, peaceful resolutions wont effect them, "latoon ke bhoot Baatoon se nahin mantein". The only solution is to be stern, not a forward policy but also "not a backward policy" either
Plz...stupid Congress supporter......it has been BS tactic that has placed us in this position for decades. Grow a pair will ya?
President
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Dear madam marina- what do you suggest-dont be a war monger- this is the rightful solution..be resolute but no forward policy as well
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India, China hold 3rd flag meeting, no headway
NEW DELHI: India and China today held their third flag meeting in Chushul in Ladakh to resolve the issue of incursion by Chinese troops 19 km inside in Daulat Beg Oldi but the stand-off between the two sides continues.
The meeting between Brigadier-level officers from the two sides began at 1100 hours and continued for more than three hours but failed to end the stand-off, sources said here.
The Chinese side remained firm on its demand that India should dismantle its infrastructure developed in Eastern Ladakh which includes some newly-constructed bunkers at key vantage points and roads constructed close to the Indian perception of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), they said.
In the meeting, India also made its stand clear that there should be an unconditional withdrawal of Chinese troops from the Indian territory as per the agreements signed between the two sides on earlier occasions, they said.
At the Unified Commanders' Conference also, Defence Minister A K Antony took a tough stand on the issue saying that India was not to be blamed for the incursions as it was "not one of our creation".
He emphasised that India would take every possible step to safeguard its interest in the area.
The sources also said that the Chinese troops are still maintaining their tents and troops.
The situation was also discussed at length during a security review meeting Antony had with National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon and the three Services chiefs.
The two earlier meetings on the issue between the two sides had failed to yield any outcome and the Chinese soldiers have even started to increase their presence in the area by erecting new tents and continue to get supplies by trucks from their unit 25 km from the face-off point.
India, China hold 3rd flag meeting, no headway - The Times of India
NEW DELHI: India and China today held their third flag meeting in Chushul in Ladakh to resolve the issue of incursion by Chinese troops 19 km inside in Daulat Beg Oldi but the stand-off between the two sides continues.
The meeting between Brigadier-level officers from the two sides began at 1100 hours and continued for more than three hours but failed to end the stand-off, sources said here.
The Chinese side remained firm on its demand that India should dismantle its infrastructure developed in Eastern Ladakh which includes some newly-constructed bunkers at key vantage points and roads constructed close to the Indian perception of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), they said.
In the meeting, India also made its stand clear that there should be an unconditional withdrawal of Chinese troops from the Indian territory as per the agreements signed between the two sides on earlier occasions, they said.
At the Unified Commanders' Conference also, Defence Minister A K Antony took a tough stand on the issue saying that India was not to be blamed for the incursions as it was "not one of our creation".
He emphasised that India would take every possible step to safeguard its interest in the area.
The sources also said that the Chinese troops are still maintaining their tents and troops.
The situation was also discussed at length during a security review meeting Antony had with National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon and the three Services chiefs.
The two earlier meetings on the issue between the two sides had failed to yield any outcome and the Chinese soldiers have even started to increase their presence in the area by erecting new tents and continue to get supplies by trucks from their unit 25 km from the face-off point.
India, China hold 3rd flag meeting, no headway - The Times of India
This is hardly news. Chinese are in illegal occupation of parts of Ladakh (Aksai chin) since 1959.
Everybody knows they are not leaving "soon".
As far as the "tent" is concerned, it is going to be more pain to them than to us. Their supply lines are much longer, and if they plan to stay there for the next 20 years, that includes 20 winters.
All in all, I support the Indian govt's smart move. Because they can't afford to lose face, chinese can't move. And when they don't move, they keep paying a cost. Not bad.
Everybody knows, neither India nor China can change things by force. China tried in 1962 but failed.
Neither can they change anything by force, now.
If they choose to bleed away at 17000 feet, well let them.
A few rats hiding in our house doesn't make the house theirs. The latest "tent" thing is part of the larger issue of undemarkated Indo-Tibet borders. That status remains the same.
Indian govt has taken the right stand by a measured and mature response. The issue is localised, so far, atleast and can be resolved by mechanisms in place. So far, so good.
Everybody knows they are not leaving "soon".
As far as the "tent" is concerned, it is going to be more pain to them than to us. Their supply lines are much longer, and if they plan to stay there for the next 20 years, that includes 20 winters.
All in all, I support the Indian govt's smart move. Because they can't afford to lose face, chinese can't move. And when they don't move, they keep paying a cost. Not bad.
Everybody knows, neither India nor China can change things by force. China tried in 1962 but failed.
Neither can they change anything by force, now.
If they choose to bleed away at 17000 feet, well let them.
A few rats hiding in our house doesn't make the house theirs. The latest "tent" thing is part of the larger issue of undemarkated Indo-Tibet borders. That status remains the same.
Indian govt has taken the right stand by a measured and mature response. The issue is localised, so far, atleast and can be resolved by mechanisms in place. So far, so good.
Vassnti
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Chinese govt is telling chinese people they arent even there, read on weibo.
Soon they will run back and CCP will say Indians were lying and we were never even there.
Only if they go, if China "wins" they will have been there all along, if they leave it never happens a win win.
Thing is while China has border disputes with just about everyone but New Zealand a back down at one point encourages all the others to stand up to them.
If they can use force to simply take even a small part from India and India gives in then they will have proved that military aquisition of disputed territory is a viable option and the hard liners will be encouraged to use the same tactic else where.
India is in the school yard and the fat kid is demanding your lunch money, you say no your going to get some bruises, you back down now your going to be handing over your lunch money till you get to Uni.
dude.. currently, more like rat in the house analogy fits better.
if you insist on the fat kid analogy.. we have sufficient to keep the fat kid afraid. -- they have made it obvious that they have got scared by Indian build-up over the past few years ... they haven't come out of bravado but out of fear.
right now, there are too few of them to waste a full bottle pesticide.
if they remain in a state of peaceful fear. .it works fine for us.
off course, if their fear and insecurity leads to any sort of escalation.. we always have a stock of pesticides ready for them.
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Have you heard of term called " Izzat" ? right now- it is beyond ' being calm', and I'm as calm as they come in these situations, public sentiment is not what I go by- BUT your countries " Izaat" is being pissed on. Not to say how the rest of the world is paying attention to lack of " izzat".
I will tell you I was a MMS fan- whole heartily till few days ago. But the man comes out 12 days later and says it was localized and makes excuses . This and other actions from him shows that he is an " economic man" , who should have stayed as the ' Finance minister'-- everything else, he is unfit for. Actually a down right embarrassment!
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