China hints Japan to be invited to war memorial parade

[Aepsilons]

Japanese Empire was far superior to Qing and ROC but treating Chinese like insects to be butchered made a peace deal impossible even for Chiang Kai-Shek. Now PRC under leaders like Mao, Deng and Xi are giving the world a hint of what a strong and united East Asian Co-prosperity Sphere should look like. Emperor Akihito and the Prince should attend the ceremony. Nobody wants to see Abe's ugly face.

I agree. If ever a Japanese were to attend the ceremony, it should be The Emperor, who is considered Father of the Nation. Abe, afterall, is just a common Prime Minister who can be replaced. I think it would send a stronger message to China and the rest of the world if Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko attended. I also think Crown Prince Naruhito (the future Emperor) should attend. Anyways, HRH Prince Naruhito is strongly for peace between China and Japan --- he has made it known on more than one occasion of his disapproval of Uyoku movements .

Remember this -- the future Emperor of Japan has deep fondness for China. He will soon become Father of the Nation, and Symbol of Japan.

It is inevitable that our two countries will cooperate more.

Every country has their own painful memories, taints and never want to mention.Like Chinese government dislike talk about our Culture Revolution.But, our official comment admitted is a disaster.
Shame don't means deny, in Chinese we have an old saying:知耻近乎勇 Feeling of shame is close to bravery（and next phase is mending）.

I have no doubt that eventually , in time, there will be full communion between Japanese and Chinese in regards to the war history. We have our own time, afterall, Japan and China have had ties for over 2500 years. Surely, you do not think 70 years is significant? 70 years is insignificant considering the the two and a half millennia of cooperation between our two countries.

I believe that in our grandchildren's generation, or great grand children's generation --- there will be comprehensive amelioration between Japan and China. Realistically, the pain of the war is still there because that generation is still alive. We have to be understanding of the Northeast Asian psychology and predisposition to repress emotional feelings.

Japan is not Germany. China is not America or France or England. East Asian culture and mentality is totally foreign from Western. So it is not wise to juxtapose one for the other. Rather, we have to understand our own and the graduality that is emphasized in our culture.

 

[IsaacNewton]

That is the question
Why Japan can`t learn Germany that complete separate itself from WWII history.
But keeping proud of its own invasion history?

Actually, I think most Japanese except for a few red-necks are rather ashamed of the war history.
In Japanese culture, as well as Asian culture, you don't mention things you are ashamed of.

For example, China never mentions the excesses of the Maoist era, the Tienanmen Square massacre, the death of 20 million during Taiping rebellion, the massacre of Muslim populations during its conquest of Central Asia.

Japan will brag nonstop about things they are proud of, like Russo-Japanese war, its economy, ect, but deep down, most Japanese feels deep sorrow for WW2, which is why they avoid mentioning it, even though it plays such a pivotal role in shaping their modern culture.

For instance, Japan's peace constitution was actually suggested by the Japanese PM, it was a way for Japan to express its desire to regain the trust of the international community. Despite being the most developed Asian nation, Japan tried its best to establish relations with other Asian nations as equals, rather than as a superior, by restraining its own military power. There might be some minority elements in Japan that sees article 9 as its nation's humiliation, but the fact that it is still around after 70 years is perhaps a testimony to the fact that most Japanese people truly believe in resolving international disputes without war.

 

[areal]

I lived in Japan for nearly one year, I also have a lot of Japanese friends, basically, I respect them personally. However, for the country called Japan, it is a different case. According to my limited experience and observation, only a small number of Japanese really understand what happened during WWII. They refused this is a war to make an attempt to rule the rest East Asia, but a war against US inference, UK, France and Dutch colonization. Moreover, they care more about they being a victim of this war, but not anything else. During the days near nuke in Hiroshima and Nakasaki, most town halls or city halls will make an expo to demonstrate how Japan suffered from twice nuking. That 's the most image how Japanese feel the war. If Japan ever has a deep sorrow for WWII, or a better well-known name for them, the Great East-Asia war, they only feel regret that they did not win the war and they lost too many people.

The modern international political system, including UN, was organized right for precaution of those axis powers, Germany and Japan. From the current international law, Japan is still a bailed cirminal. please see the following citation in Charter of the United Nations,
Article 107
Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

China, as a responsible state, one of the main winners of WWII, permanent member of UN security council, has the guaranteed right from international law to monitor and adjust any dangerous action from Japan.

In addition, it is unfair to compare China internal affairs to those wars against external enemies. We are concerning about international politics, we don't mention southwest war in Japan with comparing against raiding Pearl Harbor, we don't blame US performed genocide over American Indian as we are talking about US overthrowing Iraq govt. It is more worse that your description is not more than west media propaganda such as the myth of Tiananmen massacre, let me tell you, there was a few death on the day June 4th, but only a few, most killed because of stray bullets.

Actually, I think most Japanese except for a few red-necks are rather ashamed of the war history.
In Japanese culture, as well as Asian culture, you don't mention things you are ashamed of.

For example, China never mentions the excesses of the Maoist era, the Tienanmen Square massacre, the death of 20 million during Taiping rebellion, the massacre of Muslim populations during its conquest of Central Asia.

Japan will brag nonstop about things they are proud of, like Russo-Japanese war, its economy, ect, but deep down, most Japanese feels deep sorrow for WW2, which is why they avoid mentioning it, even though it plays such a pivotal role in shaping their modern culture.

For instance, Japan's peace constitution was actually suggested by the Japanese PM, it was a way for Japan to express its desire to regain the trust of the international community. Despite being the most developed Asian nation, Japan tried its best to establish relations with other Asian nations as equals, rather than as a superior, by restraining its own military power. There might be some minority elements in Japan that sees article 9 as its nation's humiliation, but the fact that it is still around after 70 years is perhaps a testimony to the fact that most Japanese people truly believe in resolving international disputes without war.

 

[Aepsilons]

Actually, I think most Japanese except for a few red-necks are rather ashamed of the war history.
In Japanese culture, as well as Asian culture, you don't mention things you are ashamed of.

For example, China never mentions the excesses of the Maoist era, the Tienanmen Square massacre, the death of 20 million during Taiping rebellion, the massacre of Muslim populations during its conquest of Central Asia.

Japan will brag nonstop about things they are proud of, like Russo-Japanese war, its economy, ect, but deep down, most Japanese feels deep sorrow for WW2, which is why they avoid mentioning it, even though it plays such a pivotal role in shaping their modern culture.

For instance, Japan's peace constitution was actually suggested by the Japanese PM, it was a way for Japan to express its desire to regain the trust of the international community. Despite being the most developed Asian nation, Japan tried its best to establish relations with other Asian nations as equals, rather than as a superior, by restraining its own military power. There might be some minority elements in Japan that sees article 9 as its nation's humiliation, but the fact that it is still around after 70 years is perhaps a testimony to the fact that most Japanese people truly believe in resolving international disputes without war.

Very well said. Accurate and objective.

 

[areal]

More and more evidences have been shown that Japan wants to make an installment payment for its deserved punishment as a loser of WWII. The first punishment has been done by US, the second is supposed to be done by China, but not executed yet.
That's the choice of Japan. One day the justice punishment from China not fallen from the sky, Japanese people will not have a sweet sleep.
The future of Japan is desperate. Maybe Japan refusing to recognize China being one of winners of WWII is right, only if US can be always strong, and China is always weak. However, this world has changed so much. Such refusal just makes the punishment as an installment one, installment has a very high interest according to all banking rules.
Every time I stood before those expo of Japan being victim of nuking, I cannot help think that if nuking twice can make a good dog, then China can also next time.

 

[cnleio]

1945 Tokyo Bay,USS Missouri. Chinese in there ... to watch the End of WWII

 

[Keel]

I lived in Japan for nearly one year, I also have a lot of Japanese friends, basically, I respect them personally. However, for the country called Japan, it is a different case. According to my limited experience and observation, only a small number of Japanese really understand what happened during WWII. They refused this is a war to make an attempt to rule the rest East Asia, but a war against US inference, UK, France and Dutch colonization. Moreover, they care more about they being a victim of this war, but not anything else. During the days near nuke in Hiroshima and Nakasaki, most town halls or city halls will make an expo to demonstrate how Japan suffered from twice nuking. That 's the most image how Japanese feel the war. If Japan ever has a deep sorrow for WWII, or a better well-known name for them, the Great East-Asia war, they only feel regret that they did not win the war and they lost too many people.

The modern international political system, including UN, was organized right for precaution of those axis powers, Germany and Japan. From the current international law, Japan is still a bailed cirminal. please see the following citation in Charter of the United Nations,
Article 107
Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

China, as a responsible state, one of the main winners of WWII, permanent member of UN security council, has the guaranteed right from international law to monitor and adjust any dangerous action from Japan.

In addition, it is unfair to compare China internal affairs to those wars against external enemies. We are concerning about international politics, we don't mention southwest war in Japan with comparing against raiding Pearl Harbor, we don't blame US performed genocide over American Indian as we are talking about US overthrowing Iraq govt. It is more worse that your description is not more than west media propaganda such as the myth of Tiananmen massacre, let me tell you, there was a few death on the day June 4th, but only a few, most killed because of stray bullets.

Very well presented!
To compare the event of Tiananmen Sq with the atrocities of WW2 is sheer ignorance and ill-logic

Waist drum dance, Ansai, Shaanxi logic
陕西省安塞腰鼓舞

 

[Huaren]

Actually, I think most Japanese except for a few red-necks are rather ashamed of the war history.
In Japanese culture, as well as Asian culture, you don't mention things you are ashamed of.

For example, China never mentions the excesses of the Maoist era, the Tienanmen Square massacre, the death of 20 million during Taiping rebellion, the massacre of Muslim populations during its conquest of Central Asia.

Japan will brag nonstop about things they are proud of, like Russo-Japanese war, its economy, ect, but deep down, most Japanese feels deep sorrow for WW2, which is why they avoid mentioning it, even though it plays such a pivotal role in shaping their modern culture.

For instance, Japan's peace constitution was actually suggested by the Japanese PM, it was a way for Japan to express its desire to regain the trust of the international community. Despite being the most developed Asian nation, Japan tried its best to establish relations with other Asian nations as equals, rather than as a superior, by restraining its own military power. There might be some minority elements in Japan that sees article 9 as its nation's humiliation, but the fact that it is still around after 70 years is perhaps a testimony to the fact that most Japanese people truly believe in resolving international disputes without war.

You have shown how little you know and understand about China (at least), as you have failed to see the real situation and the "shame" of China, almost all the examples you have mentioned about China are false;

1. The death of rebellions, revolutions and victims of past imperial conquests are all well documented and openly published/spread as modern china has put considerable efforts into proving the failiure and mistakes about imperialism, both chinese and foreign, in fact mostly focused on former as to prove the lack of legitimacy and the suffering of people under outdated imperialistic system, for many generations already those are important aspects in chinese education. In fact many of the crimes of those past crisis might even be exaggerated.

2. In fact the "excesses" of the Maoist era (and others like cultural revolution) are detailed in almost every piece of institutional documents connected to those eras and in most other medias, as vital part of historical social research in modern China it is meaningless and harmful to deny it or hid it, to begin with almost every household in China remember quite well about those days. And more importantly those "excesses" are important prove of the achievements of modern China, as how much and how fast we have progressed, and as base for chinese characteristics in modern age,

3, The closest analogy for "shame" might be the Tiananmen Square "massacre", but hardly unknown or hidden in China as its being openly discussed in many higher institutions in China; even in top universities in Beijing where many of profs did take part in the incidents, and they tend to tell about it to their students very often(for example peoples university). Of course its seen as different (more positive) version of the story, but the success in decades long national development afterward is increasingly proving that China did the right choice by fast suppressing the fire even with excessive methods (most likely the only way during those days).

In conclusion all the cases you have mentioned are not nearly as shameful to the chinese compared with foreign interference and/or internal weakness/Chaos, and chinese is dealing with such by mentioning those as often and as detailed as possible, to prevent it from ever happening again.

 

[Aepsilons]

1945 Tokyo Bay,USS Missouri. Chinese in there ... to watch the End of WWII

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Noble pictures , indeed. The solemn end of a long, brutal war. May the ill feelings , hatred and perversity remain closed in that chapter of Asia.

 

[areal]

One day Japan still refuses to recognize China as a winner of WWII, this war will not be regarded as done.
China was rewarded nothing from being a winner of this war, and it is worse that the loser of this war keeps challenging the winner without any regret.
I will not be surprised to see the second surrender of Japan as it sticks to the current policy by expecting it can benefit from argument between US and China.

1945 Tokyo Bay,USS Missouri. Chinese in there ... to watch the End of WWII

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[LittleFish]

My friend, you know the answer to that question , as a fellow East Asian. Japanese , Koreans, Chinese -- we are East Asian, and have East Asian mentality and psychology. There is a unique dichotomy between East Asian mentality and Western mentality.

Like what my Japanese lecturer said. We do know each other well, for we have alike culture, something Merkel will never understand. The shazai is never expected since we all know this, but it is the problem of principle and pride, or more overt, a future excuse for another...Though the possibility is not so high, but still exists. The only way to avoid it is the both side stay calm till when Japan make it to escape from US control, but I am afraid some external help is needed, who knows what it will be then, joudandake.

 

[Genesis]

Noble pictures , indeed. The solemn end of a long, brutal war. May the ill feelings , hatred and perversity remain closed in that chapter of Asia.

very difficult. Asia is not the same as Europe.

After the conclusion of WW2, America and Soviet became super powers, its prestige towers over the Germans. Britan as it always was, the power of Europe undefeated since the hundred years war, it started with more prestige and ended with even more. As to France, who cares what they think.

On another front, Americans, Russians, and Brits arguably did more damage to the Germans than the Germans did to them, this is especially true with Americans, while the Russians just went bananas and simply destroyed more than they lost.


On the other hand, no Chinese troops landed on Japan, could have, but the new first army was transferred to DongBei instead to fight Mao.

China certainly didn't cause as much damage as it did to Japan and in terms of prestige, come on man.

Koreans was given an even worse deal.


After the war, America and Soviet can brush aside Germany like a fly if they want to, while China is poorer than Japan, and only has 1/4-1/3 of the per capita, more or less, and our military is not much better, in terms of prestige, if we had any at the end of WW2, it's gone now.


I'm obviously not blaming Japan, I'm blaming CCP and their stupid policies.



But the realities are these. Though I will also say, the way Japan's acting, while I can understand and probably be the same, it's not really helping the situation. Let's just say Japan is not being the bigger person.

You live in America, you should know, it would be political suicide for a progressive developed country like Germany if it ever decided to honour even Rommel, someone who didn't even partake in the killing of innocent.

The German government would instantly distance itself from it.


So in the end, it's two things, the different circumstances surrounds the victory and post-war situation, to go with what Japan is doing, something that no developed nation has ever even thought of doing.

 

[Keel]

Merkel urges Japan to face wartime past
Source:Agencies-Global Times Published: 2015-3-10 0:13:08

Germany’s post-WWII attitude ‘contributes to its achievement’ in EU

German Chancellor Angela Merkel speaks next to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe during their joint press conference at the latter's official residence in Tokyo on Monday. Photo: AFP

German Chancellor Angela Merkel waded into the fraught area of wartime forgiveness during a visit to Japan on Monday, saying that "facing history squarely" and "generous gestures" are necessary to mend ties.

Merkel was speaking in Tokyo ahead of the 70th anniversary of Japan's defeat in World War II, in which Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's conservative views on Tokyo's war crimes are under scrutiny, and as China and South Korea continue to call for more contrition.

"Germany was lucky to be accepted in the community of nations after the horrible experience that the world had to meet with Germany during the period of National Socialism [Nazism] and the Holocaust," she said.

"This was possible first because Germany did face its past squarely, but also because the Allied powers who controlled Germany after the Second World War would attach great importance to Germany coming to grips with its past."

Merkel referred to a 1985 speech by the late German president Richard von Weizsaecker in which he called the end of WWII in Europe a "day of liberation" and said those who closed their eyes to the past were "blind to the present."

Relations between Japan and its wartime victims, China and South Korea, are at a low point, with Beijing and Seoul both demanding Tokyo does more to atone for its past.

"There were great minds and great personalities who said we ought to adopt a policy of rapprochement ... and without these generous gestures by our neighbors this would not have been possible," Merkel told her audience.

The public lecture came on the first day of a two-day trip to Tokyo, her first in seven years. Abe visited Germany last year.

"There is a striking contrast between Germany and Japan on their attitudes towards wartime history. Germany faced its past squarely, which contributes to its achievements in the EU, while Japan's negative attitude to the historical issues with China and South Korea remains a problem in East Asia," Sun Keqin, a research fellow with the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, told the Global Times.

Sun said that the introspection over its mistakes during WWII has become a commendable experience and part of the soft power of Germany.

On Sunday, China's foreign minister Wang Yi said all relevant leaders would be welcome at Beijing's commemorations of the end of WWII if he or she is "sincere" about history.

"Since the end of WWII, China has shown generosity toward Japan and separated the militarists from the common Japanese people. The problem is, Japan needs to show its sincerity in its wartime aggression and [know that] history cannot be ignored," China's foreign ministry spokesperson Hong Lei said on Monday when asked to comment on Merkel's statements.

"It's difficult for me as German chancellor to give you advice on how to deal with part of your neighborhood," Merkel said in response to questions.

"But I think history and experience tells us also that peaceful means of reconciliation have to be found," she said.

Merkel's visit to Japan is part of her swing through G7 member nations before Germany hosts the group's next summit in June. She has already visited the other five nations.

The visit, her third to Japan in almost 10 years in office, is seen as a balancing act between Germany's ties with Beijing and Tokyo. She has been to China seven times during the same period.

China and Japan are Germany's first and second trade partners and if relations between the two countries go sour, they would have a negative impact on Germany's economic interests in this area, Sun said.

Both Abe and Merkel have agreed to strongly ask Russia to play a constructive role to bring a "peaceful and diplomatic solution" to the Ukraine situation. They also agreed to aim for an EU-Japan free trade pact by the end of the year.

黄河 壶口瀑布
孙洪兴：油彩加宣纸
Hukou waterfall, Yellow River, oil on Xuan paper
by painter Sun Hongxing

 

[areal]

You get something about the difference of situations between Germany and Japan after WWII. However, the key point is not about if there was a civil war in China. Suppose if KMT still ruled mainland of China after 1949. However about Japan? Japan will be handled in the exact same way as Germany ? No, Japan would be still forgiven by US quickly. Because US required all its force against USSR in far-east.
Germany is so treated and it is willing to cut itself from the past because of two reasons.
First, Germany was DIVIDED, but Japan not separated by different winner countries, especially, USSR was excluded. That's the problem. If China army occupied Japan or not changes nothing. Suppose we have north Japan occupied by USSR, and a south Japan by US. Even Japan can re-united later, this Japan will be more clean than the state-of-the-art one.
Second, Japan is not located in the center of China, that's a geography reason. Japan has been protected by the sea, like British. Europe was divided into too many countries. Germany needs a paperwork to achieve trust from its neighbors so that it can accomplish Fuhrer's undone aim, unifying Europe, though in a different way. For Japan, China has been a large enough united entity, confessing benefits nothing for it, as Japan cannot hopefully lead China.

The case difference between Germany and Japan has nothing with China, we need not to blame ourselves. All can attribute to this reason, China being too weak at then.

very difficult. Asia is not the same as Europe.

After the conclusion of WW2, America and Soviet became super powers, its prestige towers over the Germans. Britan as it always was, the power of Europe undefeated since the hundred years war, it started with more prestige and ended with even more. As to France, who cares what they think.

On another front, Americans, Russians, and Brits arguably did more damage to the Germans than the Germans did to them, this is especially true with Americans, while the Russians just went bananas and simply destroyed more than they lost.


On the other hand, no Chinese troops landed on Japan, could have, but the new first army was transferred to DongBei instead to fight Mao.

China certainly didn't cause as much damage as it did to Japan and in terms of prestige, come on man.

Koreans was given an even worse deal.


After the war, America and Soviet can brush aside Germany like a fly if they want to, while China is poorer than Japan, and only has 1/4-1/3 of the per capita, more or less, and our military is not much better, in terms of prestige, if we had any at the end of WW2, it's gone now.


I'm obviously not blaming Japan, I'm blaming CCP and their stupid policies.



But the realities are these. Though I will also say, the way Japan's acting, while I can understand and probably be the same, it's not really helping the situation. Let's just say Japan is not being the bigger person.

You live in America, you should know, it would be political suicide for a progressive developed country like Germany if it ever decided to honour even Rommel, someone who didn't even partake in the killing of innocent.

The German government would instantly distance itself from it.


So in the end, it's two things, the different circumstances surrounds the victory and post-war situation, to go with what Japan is doing, something that no developed nation has ever even thought of doing.

 

[Aepsilons]

Like what my Japanese lecturer said. We do know each other well, for we have alike culture, something Merkel will never understand. The shazai is never expected since we all know this, but it is the problem of principle and pride, or more overt, a future excuse for another...Though the possibility is not so high, but still exists. The only way to avoid it is the both side stay calm till when Japan make it to escape from US control, but I am afraid some external help is needed, who knows what it will be then, joudandake.

There is an age old saying in Japanese, one that traces back to the Yamato Period:

~Sugitaru wa nao oyobazaru ga gotoshi~

The meaning of this is ~ Let the pains of the past pass down stream of a river ~

very difficult. Asia is not the same as Europe.

After the conclusion of WW2, America and Soviet became super powers, its prestige towers over the Germans. Britan as it always was, the power of Europe undefeated since the hundred years war, it started with more prestige and ended with even more. As to France, who cares what they think.

On another front, Americans, Russians, and Brits arguably did more damage to the Germans than the Germans did to them, this is especially true with Americans, while the Russians just went bananas and simply destroyed more than they lost.


On the other hand, no Chinese troops landed on Japan, could have, but the new first army was transferred to DongBei instead to fight Mao.

China certainly didn't cause as much damage as it did to Japan and in terms of prestige, come on man.

Koreans was given an even worse deal.


After the war, America and Soviet can brush aside Germany like a fly if they want to, while China is poorer than Japan, and only has 1/4-1/3 of the per capita, more or less, and our military is not much better, in terms of prestige, if we had any at the end of WW2, it's gone now.


I'm obviously not blaming Japan, I'm blaming CCP and their stupid policies.



But the realities are these. Though I will also say, the way Japan's acting, while I can understand and probably be the same, it's not really helping the situation. Let's just say Japan is not being the bigger person.

You live in America, you should know, it would be political suicide for a progressive developed country like Germany if it ever decided to honour even Rommel, someone who didn't even partake in the killing of innocent.

The German government would instantly distance itself from it.


So in the end, it's two things, the different circumstances surrounds the victory and post-war situation, to go with what Japan is doing, something that no developed nation has ever even thought of doing.

Asia, indeed, is unique in its own way. Northeast Asia, to be exact, has its own unique social etiquette, and cultural norms that are absolutely foreign to Western culture (and vice versa), in essence the issue of solemnity , silence in shame, and reticence is a main factor that defines Japanese (East Asian) culture in regards to the war.

As I have explained it in hundreds of posts i have written regarding this issue, it is complex and humbling for us.

Regards, my friend.