China Expressways, Highways: News & Discussions

[JSCh]

Liupan Mountain Tunnel opens to traffic
Xinhua, July 4, 2016

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A car drives into a tunnel of Liupan Mountain, northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous region, on July 3, 2016. As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Liu Hai]

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Vehicles drive in a tunnel of Liupan Mountain, northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous region, on July 3, 2016. As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Liu Hai]

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As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Li Ran]

 

[Taygibay]

This is a stupid criticism about US.

No it's not :

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/02/25/Roads-Crumble-Infrastructure-Spending-Hits-30-Year-Low

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org

But it concerns roads and public systems, not houses which are private!

in·fra·struc·ture
ˈinfrəˌstrək(t)SHər/
noun
the basic physical and organizational structures and facilities (e.g., buildings, roads, and power supplies) needed for the operation of a society or enterprise.

Sorry, Tay.

 

[gambit]

No it's not :

Yes, it is. In your eagerness to criticize US, you missed the point. Completely.

Just like the Chinese, you talked about infrastructures as if they are disposable things. They are not. They are, and should be, designed and built to be durable. The greater the population density and estimates for growth, the more crucial their durability. In turn, the price is that they cannot be as flexible as you would like. So if initially, you planned the road to be two lanes and the town grows around that two lanes road, there is going to be problems. That does not mean the road was flawed. It just simply mean growth outpace you.

No one is saying that infrastructures in the US are not in need of repairs and even outright replacements, but the criticisms that we are somehow 'lackadaisical' ignores immediate local issues that can be solved locally, not by platitudes from bureaucrats far off and certainly not by people who have never been to the US and know what they are talking about.

 

[AndrewJin]

@gambit This is not a troll thread where you should show around, pls sheer away from it
Thanks.

I'm quite familiar with this railway and i have seen what this video offers for five times!
This railway is one of the hardest railways in terms of tech.
Proposed one hundred years ago, finished one hundred years ago.
However, after watching it, you will get a sense that this railway is much lower than the parallel expressway.
Such low-alttude design is not very good given that there are a lot of caves and underground rivers at the base of mountains.
When we start construction of the real 350km/h Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu HSR (current one only 200-250km/h), we must build it high to avoid dangerous caves and underground rivers.
Every summer, the current semi-HSR will be flooded!

Watch bridges of Shanghai-Chongqing National Expressway
from Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu semi high-speed rail(200-250km/h)

 

[Taygibay]

Yes, it is.

No my good man, you just read wrong :

I said :
"Kudos to China! Infrastructures spending is a must for a modern country.
And to think that of the big players, America is at present by far the most
lackadaisical on such things only makes that good work more important."

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/china-ex...-news-and-updates.435098/page-4#ixzz4DRNjYKLj

Nowhere did I say that US engineering was sub-par.
But if you had planned things for say 50 years & got say 75 years of service out
of them with the end coming soon and yet forgot to finance their replacement ...
you are late on infrastructure spending nonetheless. That's a fact.

Check this cute piece :
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/spend-more-on-infrastructure-congress-told/article/2588430


"Flint reminds us that pennywise, pound-foolish decisions to save money can yield huge costs to public
health, enormous economic costs and a corrosive impact on public trust of government," Wu said.

That Wu despite her moniker is very American, "an attorney with the Natural Resources
Defense Council's Health Program" talking here of the Flint Michigan crisis you must know of.

Don't be needlessly thin-skinned here; there is no attack on the quality of American work.
There is on the quality of your politics & politicians however but US public opinion backs me up on that.

Have a great day yet, Tay.

 

[AndrewJin]

Liupan Mountain Tunnel opens to traffic
Xinhua, July 4, 2016

​

A car drives into a tunnel of Liupan Mountain, northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous region, on July 3, 2016. As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Liu Hai]

​

Vehicles drive in a tunnel of Liupan Mountain, northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous region, on July 3, 2016. As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Liu Hai]

​

As the longest highway tunnel in China's high altitude areas, the 9,485-meter Liupan Mountain Tunnel was opened to traffic Sunday, marking the completion of the Ningxia section of Qingdao-Lanzhou Highway. [Photo: Xinhua/Li Ran]

Once finished by 2018 (all sections), G22 Qingdao-Lanzhou will form another one of the 18 west-east horizontal national expressways!

Gansu section of G22 before inauguration

No my good man, you just read wrong :

I said :
"Kudos to China! Infrastructures spending is a must for a modern country.
And to think that of the big players, America is at present by far the most
lackadaisical on such things only makes that good work more important."

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/china-ex...-news-and-updates.435098/page-4#ixzz4DRNjYKLj

Nowhere did I say that US engineering was sub-par.
But if you had planned things for say 50 years & got say 75 years of service out
of them with the end coming soon and yet forgot to finance their replacement ...
you are late on infrastructure spending nonetheless. That's a fact.

Check this cute piece :
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/spend-more-on-infrastructure-congress-told/article/2588430


"Flint reminds us that pennywise, pound-foolish decisions to save money can yield huge costs to public
health, enormous economic costs and a corrosive impact on public trust of government," Wu said.

That Wu despite her moniker is very American, "an attorney with the Natural Resources
Defense Council's Health Program" talking here of the Flint Michigan crisis you must know of.

Don't be needlessly thin-skinned here; there is no attack on the quality of American work.
There is on the quality of your politics & politicians however but US public opinion backs me up on that.

Have a great day yet, Tay.

Dude, relax....Anybody who has ever traveled to US knows the terrible condition of many infra there, that's the truth. That's why they need guys like Trump to deport some of the dishonest non-whites and rebuild America again. Unfortunately, most US passport holders in PDF are not white people, they just take benefit from the country who offers them refuge but not willing to make a contribution. People like Trump know what white people there want. They're gonna invest in infra as opposed to entirely into those immoral wars and greedy banking industry. They're gonna build walls, apologise to those middle east countries which they are ruining, and offer Americans new roads!

Ok, let's leave them alone.
Let's talk infra here, talk about development, talk about poverty reduction, talk about the future!

 

[gambit]

Nowhere did I say that US engineering was sub-par.
But if you had planned things for say 50 years & got say 75 years of service out
of them with the end coming soon and yet forgot to finance their replacement ...
you are late on infrastructure spending nonetheless. That's a fact.

And you still missed the point. As usual with US critics.

Say a road is coming up on its age, you can either repair or replace (repave). But in either case, you cannot simply just do a Nike: Just Do It.

Take a minor project of repaving a local street, for example. Do you need traffic diversion ? For how long ? How will that affects businesses and other social activities ? How will emergency services affected ? What about the seasons if where you live have changing temperatures ? And this is not yet taking into finance.

But I do understand the need for you to criticize US. It is practically pathological. I will leave you and the Chinese to beat each other's dicks.

 

[laphroaig]

@gambit

Most Americans readily agree that their infrastructure, once cutting edge world class, is now reaching the end of its serviceable life. The next couple of decades will see many major bridges and roads needing serious work if not wholesale replacement.

Do you disagree? Or is it more to do with the fact that its the Chinese who are pointing it out over here?

 

[gambit]

@gambit

Most Americans readily agree that their infrastructure, once cutting edge world class, is now reaching the end of its serviceable life. The next couple of decades will see many major bridges and roads needing serious work if not wholesale replacement.

Do you disagree? Or is it more to do with the fact that its the Chinese who are pointing it out over here?

Again, it is easy for anyone, especially a person living in the other side of the world, to say we need to do this and that to our infrastructures, and point to China as example.

Do yourself a favor and talk to a real civil engineer. I have friends who are and the most frustrating thing they encounter is not money or government but local resistance. When traffic is diverted, businesses lose money. That is a fact. The longer local businesses lose money, the longer the local economic depression. And yes, there is such a thing as a local economic depression because the majority of any country's economic health lies in small businesses who services the immediate area.

As for the Chinese, when they STILL have horrible things like this...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peo...mb-17-unsecured-cliff-ladders-home-class.html

...We do not need to take China's criticisms seriously.

If you are going to criticize US, go for foreign affairs, the military, pollution because pollution do not have borders, or human rights. But not stupid shit like our bridges and highways because those things have no impacts to anywhere else but US.

 

[TaiShang]

Ok, let's leave them alone.
Let's talk infra here, talk about development, talk about poverty reduction, talk about the future!

Exactly. Why talk about past? Let's talk about future.

Better do not engage the person.

Let's talk about China.

***

China green-lights two highway projects
Xinhua, June 21, 2016

China's top economic planner has approved two transport projects that will cost a combined 29.2 billion yuan (US$4.5 billion).

Around 157 km of highway in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region will cost 6.6 billion yuan, according the National Development and Reform Commission website.

The agency has also given permission for 172 km of road linking the city of Pingliang with the city of Tianshui in northwest China's Gansu Province at a cost of 22.6 billion yuan.

 

[kaykay]

Great. We should take inspiration from Chinese on all the positive things.

 

[laphroaig]

Again, it is easy for anyone, especially a person living in the other side of the world, to say we need to do this and that to our infrastructures, and point to China as example.

Do yourself a favor and talk to a real civil engineer. I have friends who are and the most frustrating thing they encounter is not money or government but local resistance. When traffic is diverted, businesses lose money. That is a fact. The longer local businesses lose money, the longer the local economic depression. And yes, there is such a thing as a local economic depression because the majority of any country's economic health lies in small businesses who services the immediate area.

...We do not need to take China's criticisms seriously.

If you are going to criticize US, go for foreign affairs, the military, pollution because pollution do not have borders, or human rights. But not stupid shit like our bridges and highways because those things have no impacts to anywhere else but US.

Do you disagree that a lot of major American roadways and bridges and levees and indeed dams are nearing the end of their life cycles?

We appreciate the hurdles pointed out by you. They are pretty much the same here as well. On a very different scale.

But I was just surprised to hear an American taking a line different to the ones I have heard more than often in my visits to your country.

 

[gambit]

Do you disagree that a lot of major American roadways and bridges and levees and indeed dams are nearing the end of their life cycles?

We appreciate the hurdles pointed out by you. They are pretty much the same here as well. On a very different scale.

But I was just surprised to hear an American taking a line different to the ones I have heard more than often in my visits to your country.

But that is not the point I was trying to make. No one is disputing that no matter how well built, EVERYTHING have a useful shelf life. The point is the unwarranted and ignorant criticism that the US is somehow neglecting what needs to be repaired and/or replaced. That supposedly 'neglect' is media hype. If it it is not done immediately, then it is 'neglect'. That is how newspaper survive. Real professionals do not take these criticisms seriously, especially if the criticisms are from overseas where people do not know how local environment operates and grew throughout the decades.

 

[laphroaig]

But that is not the point I was trying to make. No one is disputing that no matter how well built, EVERYTHING have a useful shelf life. The point is the unwarranted and ignorant criticism that the US is somehow neglecting what needs to be repaired and/or replaced. That supposedly 'neglect' is media hype. If it it is not done immediately, then it is 'neglect'. That is how newspaper survive. Real professionals do not take these criticisms seriously, especially if the criticisms are from overseas where people do not know how local environment operates and grew throughout the decades.

I have no argument with that. Most Americans I deal with are Ivy league educated creme de la crème of your country (I'll leave the area out for now). So the earlier insinuation that they are either not qualified or informed to know what they are talking about was a bit of a blind fire to be honest.

The fact remains that most of your very impressive infrastructure is now around 50-60 plus years old. It needs replacement. Which even for a very rich country is a HUGE undertaking. For all the reasons put forward by you. And also the point about money. It is a mammoth spend. A spend most Americans I have spoken to readily agree the economy is not ready to undertake easily. Or at all.

Hope that clarifies further.

 

[ahojunk]

This is a thread on discussing infrastructure in China. Do NOT derail this thread.
Please take your discussion on American infra to the appropriate forum. Thank you.

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China's infrastructure plan not another stimulus: economist
(Xinhua) 08:23, May 16, 2016

(File Photo). Building viaducts for HSR?

BEIJING, May 15 -- China's infrastructure spending plan is not comparable to the 2008 stimulus, a J.P.Morgan economist claims.

The Ministry of Transport and the National Development and Reform Commission has announced that 4.7 trillion yuan (720 billion U.S.dollars) will be spent on infrastructure from 2016-2018, covering 303 projects.

The decision has been misinterpreted as another large stimulus similar to that which followed the global financial crisis, but this is not the case, according to a research note by Zhu Haibin, J.P.Morgan China Chief Economist.

Zhu expects the projects to include some which are already underway and the spending is in line with existing policy rather than an additional amount.

The 13th Five-Year-Plan (FYP) contains slightly lower targets for railway and highway spending, but higher targets in city rail and airports compared to the previous FYP. Spending is still critical if policy targets are to be met, Zhu said.

With manufacturing investment is continuing to fall as capacity is reduced and real estate inventories are still high, infrastructure has become the focus of policy. It is worth noting that the concept of infrastructure has expanded in recent years to cover new areas such as city rail, pipelines, water conservancy, utilities and the environment, he said.

Furthermore, 4.7 trillion yuan today is not comparable to 4 trillion in 2008, he said. The amount today accounts for 6.9 percent of 2015 GDP or 8.5 percent of fixed investment and will be spread over three years. In 2008, the amount represented 14.9 percent of 2007 GDP and 33.8 percent of fixed investment. Total spending on infrastructure was only 2.3 trillion yuan in 2007 and is now over 11 trillion yuan.

In addition, 4 trillion is an inaccurate estimate of the 2008-09 stimulus with the actual amount much bigger, as reflected in credit growth and expansion of local government debt, Zhu added.