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China Economy Set for ‘Hard Landing’ in 2012, Shilling Says

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Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- China’s economy is headed for a “hard landing” this year as weaker demand overseas chokes off exports, said Gary Shilling, who correctly forecast the U.S. recession that began in December 2007.

A Chinese government report yesterday showed that export orders fell last month even as manufacturing expanded. The Shanghai Composite Index dropped 1.1 percent yesterday as stronger manufacturing boosted concern that the world’s second- largest economy will decelerate further as the government refrains from loosening monetary policy to tame inflation and curb property prices.

“They slammed on the brakes,” Shilling, president of A. Gary Shilling & Co., a Springfield, New Jersey-based consultancy firm, said at the Bloomberg Link China Conference in New York yesterday. “Transition is not easy because they are geared up to exports.”

China’s economy expanded 10.4 percent annually in the past 10 years, five times the pace of the U.S., as the government boosted spending on roads and bridges and manufacturers exported everything from toys to socks. Shilling defines a hard landing as a growth rate below 6 percent.

The economy grew at a 9.2 percent rate in 2011 and its expansion will slow to 8.5 percent this year, according to economists’ estimates compiled by Bloomberg.

China’s official purchasing managers’ index increased to 50.5 from 50.3 in December, exceeding the median estimate in a Bloomberg survey for a reading below the 50 level that divides expansion from contraction. The data may have been distorted by the weeklong New Year holiday. Readings for new export orders and imports contracted for a fourth month.

Property Slowdown

“The next 10 years are going to be probably among the most intense in the history of any industrial country in terms of creating new industries,” Leeb said at the conference.

Shilling, 74, has been calling for a hard landing in China since at least a year ago, advising clients to sell copper and the Australian dollar as a play on the downturn.

Shilling forecast the U.S. recession in 2007 and warned investors a year earlier that residential real estate was a bubble about to burst. As the Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell a more-than 12-year low in March 2009, he said that higher unemployment would curb consumer spending, leading to “weaker stocks.” The gauge has since rallied 96 percent.


China’s growth will be undermined by a cooling property market, said Michael Shaoul, chairman of New York-based Marketfield Asset Management, which manages $1.3 billion.

Lower housing prices will feed “rapidly to the construction, and then it feeds back to the credit system,” said Shaoul. “That’s the problem China is going to face in the next 12 to 15 months.”

About 61 percent of investors in a Bloomberg survey in December said that they anticipate a crash in the financial industry by late 2016. China’s new loans totaled $4 trillion in the past three years, twice the size of the Italian economy, raising concern that some of the lending to local governments and property developers will turn sour.

China’s government won’t allow the nation’s banks to trigger another credit crisis, said Joseph Taylor, an emerging- markets strategist at Boston-based Loomis, Sayles & Co., which oversees $163 billion in assets.

“Banks are still the instrumentality of the state,” Taylor said at the conference. “They won’t be allowed to go under. They won’t be allowed to trigger a systemic crisis.”

While the economy won’t get to crisis point, growth will probably slow because China has had “almost no success” in increasing consumption as a percentage of gross domestic product, and the nation has too much bad debt, Taylor said.


China Economy Set for ‘Hard Landing’ in 2012, Shilling Says - Businessweek
 
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what a joke, this guy isn't worth a shilling and he has lost his clients millions of dollars by advising to short copper last year.

china's net exports were a drag on growth, not a gain. lmao. this guy knows nothing.
 
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Im sick of hearing "CHINA WILL FALL!!". This nonsense needs to stop. Everyone hoping for this must know that china is NOT the CCP. Any damage to the chinese economy will harm us all and throw millions around the world back into poverty or delay their freedom from poverty and ignorance.
 
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Im sick of hearing "CHINA WILL FALL!!". This nonsense needs to stop. Everyone hoping for this must know that china is NOT the CCP. Any damage to the chinese economy will harm us all and throw millions around the world back into poverty or delay their freedom from poverty and ignorance.
Yeah china may not be the perfect CCP, it's a higher threat to it's neighbors than ever.:flame:
 
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If you throw yourself in front of a bullet train, don't be surprised when it crushes you into pieces.

And the worst thing to do is throw yourself in front, dance around, pull down your pants and laugh at the driver.
Don't show your head before the sunlight. LOL.:P
 
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There's only one time Chinese economy could potentially hit a hard landing is in early 1990s when China started market reform. To do it, so many state owned enterprises need structual reform and it temporarily paralyze the economy. It also sent millions of workers jobless that is very dangerous to the society.

It is absurd to say Chinese economy can hit a hard landing simply because export shrinks. Compared to 1990s, this won't be as a sweeping impact since exports is just a fraction of economy. And when migrate workers lose job, they can return to their farm land. It is not like in 1990s that city workers pretty much lost everything and lives became hopeless. As to the real estate bubble, it is also greatly exaggerated for following reasons:

1. The real estate bubble only happens on a few places like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Hangzhou and Hainan. Most Chinese cities don't have this problem.
2. There're many unoccupied apartments but they are mostly sold. And in China you have to pay a deep down payment initially so it is a very different situation. The demand is still there and I don't think there will be a sudden price drop in those big cities.
 
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Hard landing according to him is growth rate falling below 6%.
 
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Hard landing according to him is growth rate falling below 6%.

In a lot of senses GDP goals is kinda like political goals in China. My brother works in a major bank and he told me it is a political task every year for them to meet the goal and all major banks are under central government control. Instead of letting economy decide how much growth is, in China, it is more like the number is decided at the beginning of the year and then the government uses its power on the financial sector to guide the economy. Unless some major incident happen (war, 2012 dooms day), the number won't be far off. This is state capitalism.
 
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In a lot of senses GDP goals is kinda like political goals in China. My brother works in a major bank and he told me it is a political task every year for them to meet the goal and all major banks are under central government control. Instead of letting economy decide how much growth is, in China, it is more like the number is decided at the beginning of the year and then the government uses its power on the financial sector to guide the economy. Unless some major incident happen (war, 2012 dooms day), the number won't be far off. This is state capitalism.

china is not state capitalism. there is a very crucial distinction between state capitalism and socialism.

in state capitalism, the state guides large companies, like how Japan guided Sony and Korea guided Samsung.

in socialism, the state owns the large companies outright.
 
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In a lot of senses GDP goals is kinda like political goals in China. My brother works in a major bank and he told me it is a political task every year for them to meet the goal and all major banks are under central government control. Instead of letting economy decide how much growth is, in China, it is more like the number is decided at the beginning of the year and then the government uses its power on the financial sector to guide the economy. Unless some major incident happen (war, 2012 dooms day), the number won't be far off. This is state capitalism.

Great and exact explanation, GDP is nothing and useless, I care about my income more

---------- Post added at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

china is not state capitalism. there is a very crucial distinction between state capitalism and socialism.

in state capitalism, the state guides large companies, like how Japan guided Sony and Korea guided Samsung.

in socialism, the state owns the large companies outright.

state capitalism means cpc is the biggest capitalist, isn't it?:lol:
 
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In a lot of senses GDP goals is kinda like political goals in China. My brother works in a major bank and he told me it is a political task every year for them to meet the goal and all major banks are under central government control. Instead of letting economy decide how much growth is, in China, it is more like the number is decided at the beginning of the year and then the government uses its power on the financial sector to guide the economy. Unless some major incident happen (war, 2012 dooms day), the number won't be far off. This is state capitalism.

You d think that all these "Economists" would know about that. But then again China's growth depends on its exports majorly. And demand in foreign countries is not something Chinese government can control.
 
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You d think that all these "Economists" would know about that. But then again China's growth depends on its exports majorly. And demand in foreign countries is not something Chinese government can control.

Economists are not better than Voodoo practioners in terms of prediction. You'd think they'd predict current economic melt down. Now they are smarter to predict in both ways, so 50% it will be right.

GDP numbers are easier to control if government has a lot of money to manipulate economy. To me the number is not that important anyway. Average actual income increase (after inflation) is more meaningful to measure a country's economic success.
 
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You d think that all these "Economists" would know about that. But then again China's growth depends on its exports majorly. And demand in foreign countries is not something Chinese government can control.

no it doesn't. net exports were a drag on economic growth. China's growth comes from the large consumer market, with retail 2nd in the world and poised to overtake the US next year, and investments in infrastructure, which makes our nation a more pleasant place to live than places with potholed roads, no public transport except crowded buses and rickshaws, and being forced to export food even as people starve.
 
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