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The biggest difference between China and EU in dealing with a economic crisis is that PBoC prints money while the European Central Bank can't or just can't do it in time. That's why Greece got fucked up and Spain and Irland and maybe Italy is gonna fucked up.

If you don't know PBoC than you probably should stop talking about China's economy.
 
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see the problem isn't that my head is in the sand, maybe you should get out and read more than just the china doomsayer(who btw has been wrong every year for the last 30 years) i am perfectly aware that the economy is unbalance, the chinese government has said so themselves, but it is not so bad that we should panic as the article would like us to.

and you know what. i am will to "remember" you this time next year and will to bet that the chinese economy will continue to grow this time next year with no bank/bad loan bubble bursting.

and as other have already pointed out, Chinese bad loan percentage is highish for a developed country, however china is not a developed country and its bad loan % is in fact better than average for a developing country and certainly much better than 15 years ago, what happened 15 years ago? oh right 10% + growth a year.

and it tells alot when the only thing you can cite for a bad chinese economy is a bad western economy that led to a decline in exports.

and also trade with germany is good for both, why shouldnt china push for more trade regardless of whether the economy is good or bad?

Oh well, lots of luck in any case.

And i cited that because the CCP keeps it's bank's records tightly sealed, in other words noone knows the extent of the bad loans. And i do read more then just the China doomsayer but anyone with 1 half of a brain and some rudimentary knowledge about economy knows that the growth model is unsustainable.
And guess what, after 30 years the unsustainability is starting to show.
Like i said, CCP has a lot of money they can keep injecting to hide it, but that money will run out and what's worst it will contribute to the bubble.
200 bill.$ already went to the banks, 3 trillion left, but you still think i'm wrong and im talking out of my ***.

Ofcourse trade with Germany is good, i never denied that, but the fact that CCP officials need to urge Merkel for as swiftest as possible solution to the EU crisis speaks a lot. They know about sustainability, you dont.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/05/11/will-chinas-paper-tiger-banks-bring-on-a-hard-landing/
 
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The biggest difference between China and EU in dealing with a economic crisis is that PBoC prints money while the European Central Bank can't or just can't do it in time. That's why Greece got fucked up and Spain and Irland and maybe Italy is gonna fucked up.

If you don't know PBoC than you probably should stop talking about China's economy.

Ireland is out of recession? Posting positive growth if memory serves correctly. They accepted the tough austerity measures back in 2008, which Greece is reluctant to accept.
Italy has a primary budget surplus, the thing screwing them are the repayment of loans taken long time ago, but on that front Monti (Italy's nonelected crisis manager) who is a pretty level headed politician has stated that Italy will post miniscule growth next year.

Printing money is not a solution buddy....go educate yourself about the unwanted side effects it brings if you want.
 
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Weak China trade data confirms outlook worsening

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Some economists fear the outlook is so poor that China may miss its official 7.5 percent growth target for 2012 without a fresh round of swift policy stimulus on top of the monetary and fiscal easing undertaken since last year and the $150 billion-worth of infrastructure projects announced last week. PHOTO: FILE
BEIJING: China’s exports grew at a slower pace than forecast in August while imports surprisingly fell, underlining the mounting challenge facing Beijing’s policymakers as domestic demand flags while the global economic outlook darkens.
Exports grew 2.7 percent year-on-year last month, below the 3 percent forecast in a Reuters poll, confirming President Hu Jintao’s warning of the “grave challenges” posed by the world economy.
Data for imports was even worse, showing a fall of 2.6 percent on the year in August, compared with expectations for a 3.5 percent rise. The number will solidify market expectations for further stimulus and monetary easing to support growth as China heads towards a once-a-decade leadership change later this year.
“The import surprise on the downside is very unusual. It is an alarming sign for the government and they probably saw it coming,” said Zhang Zhiwei, chief China economist at Nomura in Hong Kong.
“We’ve now pretty much got the full batch of August data and it’s clear that the slowdown pressure is growing and that the government is feeling the need to act. I think there will be further easing in the months ahead.”


Such weak data is grim news in a country where exports generate 25 percent of gross domestic product, support an estimated 200 million jobs and where analysts already expect the economy to have its weakest year of expansion since 1999.
Some economists fear the outlook is so poor that China may miss its official 7.5 percent growth target for 2012 without a fresh round of swift policy stimulus on top of the monetary and fiscal easing undertaken since last year and the $150 billion-worth of infrastructure projects announced last week. Those fears were amplified by data on Sunday showing industrial output growth hit its weakest annual pace in August in more than three years.
The problem for Beijing is that despite deep government pockets, record tax receipts, a budget in surplus in the first half of the year and monetary policy still on the tight side, even with inflation near two-year lows, there is little policymakers can do to stimulate demand beyond their borders.
China’s biggest customers are the debt-ridden, recession-bound European Union and the still struggling United States.
Without a big boost in demand from those two economies, Beijing policymakers face an uphill battle. The focus of investors has clearly shifted though to more aggressive efforts to stimulate domestic activity to compensate for declining external demand.
They are worried that six successive quarters of slowing growth risk sliding into a seventh in the third quarter despite the “fine-tuning” of economic policies which began in November 2011.Two interest rate cuts, the freeing of an estimated 1.2 trillion yuan ($190 billion) for new lending by cutting required reserve ratios (RRR) at banks and a raft of tax tweaks have so far failed to halt the slide..
Instead China’s factories are running at their slowest rate of expansion since May 2009, data on Sunday showed. Industrial output growth in August eased to 8.9 percent year on year, according to data from the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS)
 
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I see it now.

China collapses >> Romney gets elected >> Iran gets nuked >> Chinese Civil War nuclear escalation >> EU Collapse >> Global Nuclear War >> 2012 Mayan Calendar predicted everything.

that guy is too pessimistic. I chart it this way:

india 3 years
japan 5 years
usa 10 years
the ultra green right wings in Taiwan, China will be purged in year 6 after their step father japan breaks down
 
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that guy is too pessimistic. I chart it this way:

india 3 years
japan 5 years
usa 10 years
the ultra green right wings in Taiwan, China will be purged in year 6 after their step father japan breaks down


He is not Chinese.


Hey artie, have you find out what oversea Chinese call their mainland brothers yet?
 
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I see it now.

China collapses >> Romney gets elected >> Iran gets nuked >> Chinese Civil War nuclear escalation >> EU Collapse >> Global Nuclear War >> 2012 Mayan Calendar predicted everything.
One thing one of my Japanese friend told me was that The thing Japan fear the most about china actually is not a united one, but a fragmented one. If China ever break apart, then there will be at least 3 countries will be able to challenge Japan's position in Asia. One is the country consists mostly northeastern Chinese providences that are known for its heavy industries. One that consists eastern Chinese providences like Shanghai, zhejiang, jiangsu that are strong in light industries and financials, then there is the country made up my south Chinese providences like Guangdong, Guangxi. Without other poor providences to drag their feet and being smaller in population and less diversed so they are easier to manage, those countries would be able to develop much faster than it is nowRight now Japan only has to face one competitor that is China which is plagued by uneven wealth distribution between different providencs and diverse in its demography, Japan can enjoy longer time being superior.
 
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Oh well, lots of luck in any case.

And i cited that because the CCP keeps it's bank's records tightly sealed, in other words noone knows the extent of the bad loans. And i do read more then just the China doomsayer but anyone with 1 half of a brain and some rudimentary knowledge about economy knows that the growth model is unsustainable.
And guess what, after 30 years the unsustainability is starting to show.
Like i said, CCP has a lot of money they can keep injecting to hide it, but that money will run out and what's worst it will contribute to the bubble.
200 bill.$ already went to the banks, 3 trillion left, but you still think i'm wrong and im talking out of my ***.

Ofcourse trade with Germany is good, i never denied that, but the fact that CCP officials need to urge Merkel for as swiftest as possible solution to the EU crisis speaks a lot. They know about sustainability, you dont.

Will China's 'Paper Tiger' Banks Bring On A Hard Landing - Forbes

no one has EVER said the growth model is forever sustainable, but the question isnt if we should adjust, its when.

you claim that china somehow has so much bad bank loans that the economy will collapse because of it, i disagree, china does have bad loans but no where near the amount that would collapse the economy and in fact it had been worst in the past, much worst yet the economy was still able to growth at over 10%. then you throw in some babble about how the ccp keeps in records sealed, same argument people throw out anytime people have no proof to back up what they say about china they just say oh china is communist and the government is secretive thus so and so must be true. lack of evidence is not proof of the negative.

for the record i dont not think you talk completely out of ur 4$$ but you take it too far without substantial evident to back you up,
some bad loans/= economic collapse

and about the banks,
Chinese banks' profits soar amid euro crisis - CNN

now compare that with western banks
they were too large to fail before, they have actually gotten larger since 2008 and have manage to influence the government enough that many of the safety systems put in after 2008 are being repelled so they can go back to doing what they have were doing till they cause another crisis.

that said there as certainly some problem with chinese banks but again no where near enough to cause them to fold in the way that western banks did in 2008

and for your last point

"Ofcourse trade with Germany is good, i never denied that, but the fact that CCP officials need to urge Merkel for as swiftest as possible solution to the EU crisis speaks a lot. They know about sustainability, you dont."

dont tell me what i know and dont know. of course they will ask for the quickest solution to the EU crisis, an end to that crisis is good for everyone and EU is a big market for china, asking them to quickly end the crisis is not equivalent to, nor can it be taken as evidence, that the CCP is somehow in trouble. is a slow down happenign? yes, is the economy crashing? No
 
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China’s new reseach on optics: Wave–particle superposition
China’s new reseach on optics: Wave
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2012-09-11 — The implementation of a quantum Wheeler’s delayed-choice experiment defies the conventional boundaries set by the complementarity principle and shows photons coherently oscillating between particle and wave behaviours in a single experimental set-up.

Since the dawn of the quantum era, physicists have armed themselves with brilliantly conceived ‘gedanken’ (thought) experiments for their intellectual duels. A counterintuitive facet of the quantum laws is tested, or disputed, by considering in one’s mind a minimal real-world set-up in which simple devices and operations yield the ultimate meaning of the first principles. The actual implementation of such intellectual instances is particularly exciting, as on the one hand it provides tangible evidence of the overwhelming explanatory power of quantum mechanics, and on the other it exposes the limits of the everyday terminology built on our classical intuition.

Reporting in Nature Photonics, Jian-Shun Tang and co-workers now present the experimental realization1 of the refined version of one of these fascinating mental challenges — namely Wheeler’s delayed-choice experiment2, following the prescriptions of a recent theoretical proposal3. In particular, Tang et al. have observed a photon being in a quantum superposition of both a particle and a wave1.

For three centuries, the concepts of particle and wave have been dichotomous. Famous is the dispute about the nature of light between Newton, who believed light had a particle nature, and Hooke and Huygens, who championed the wave hypothesis. When quantum theory was introduced, it became clear that light can behave sometimes as a particle, and other times as a wave, depending on the test performed. This wave–particle duality was somewhat solved by Bohr through his celebrated complementarity principle: mutually exclusive conditions prevent complementary features from being revealed in a single experimental set-up4. This statement was fertile ground for supporters of hidden-variable theories, who predicated that an additional unknown quantity should carry information that discriminates the photon between either a particle or a wave.

Wheeler ruled out such hypotheses by conceiving the following thought experiment. Consider a Mach–Zehnder interferometer with beamsplitters BS1 and BS2, as depicted in Fig. 1a. A single photon enters BS1, with the two arms of the interferometer representing the two possible paths through which the photon may travel. BS2 is either present or absent, and the photon arrives at the signal detectors Da and Db. If the interferometer is complete (that is, BS2 is present), interference between the two possible paths is observed, revealing the wave nature of the initial photon. On the other hand, without BS2, the detectors reveal the path taken by the photon, and a deterministic pattern typical of a classical particle would be seen. So far, this is analogous to Young’s famous double-slit experiment. Wheeler extended this by postulating that postponing the insertion of BS2 until after the photon has entered the interferometer will not change the result. When BS2 is put in place, photons will behave as waves; otherwise they will behave as particles. The photon cannot have a predetermined nature and its character is decided upon observation — therefore no hidden variable is required. This traditional version of the experiment has been implemented in conditions of space-like event separation between the entrance of the photon in the circuit and the choice of measurement5, thereby confirming the predictions of quantum theory. a, A Mach–Zehnder interferometer. A photon, split at a beamsplitter BS1, is eventually detected as having travelled through either both arms (displaying wave-like behaviour) or just one arm (displaying particle-like behaviour), depending respectively on whether or not the second beamsplitter BS2 is in place. If BS2 is engineered to be in a quantum superposition of being present and absent, then this experimental set-up reveals the photon to be in a quantum superposition of being both a wave and a particle2, 6. This has now been demonstrated by Tang et al.1, who exploited an ancillary photon to control the action of the Hadamard gate used to realize BS2. b, The implemented circuit schematic of Tang et al.

The experiment performed by Tang et al.1, which is based on the proposal by Ionicioiu and Terno2, 6, sheds further light on the fundamental nature of photons. The rationale behind the experiment is that complementarity is not due to set-in-stone physical principles, but rather to the limitations of our classical experience. Specifically, the researchers reveal both the particle and wave nature of single photons in a single set-up by introducing a quantum device that regulates the presence of BS2. This means there is no longer a classical operator making the delayed choice about inserting or removing the second beamsplitter, but rather an ancillary photon is employed to realize a superposition of BS2 being both present and absent. A description in terms of quantum circuits is useful for clarifying this point. In such language, a Mach–Zehnder interferometer is written as a network containing Hadamard gates (H) and a phase shifter. The Hadamard gate performs a type of Fourier transform, and acting on a single photon will transform it into a superposition of the photon being in both horizontal and vertical polarization states.

The experiment conducted by Tang et al.1 can be viewed as a network comprising a Hadamard gate H1 (corresponding to BS1), a phase shifter placed in one of the arms, and a second Hadamard gate H2 (corresponding to BS2), acting in sequence on the initial state of the entering photon. Control over the presence of H2 can be regulated in two ways. The first — the classical technique — associates the presence of H2 with the result of measuring the polarization of an ancillary photon; the ancillary photon is considered to be a statistical mixture of both horizontal and vertical polarizations. The second way is quantum in the sense that H2 is implemented as a control-Hadamard gate, with the ancillary photon being the control qubit (Fig. 1b). Here, the superposition of horizontal and vertical polarization states of the ancillary photon determines a superposition of BS2 being both present and absent in the circuit.

In the practical implementation of this technique, beam displacers, which are used in place of beamsplitters, operate on single photons produced by InGa/GaAs quantum dots. Tang et al. compared both scenarios: the ancillary photon in the quantum superposition and in the classical mixture of two orthogonal polarizations. They then measured the probabilities associated with detecting single photons in either one of the paths and compared the results. Striking differences in the experimental data between both scenarios are in agreement with theoretical expectations. These differences are exemplified by the observation of interference between the particle and wave states, which appears only in the case of a quantum controller.

Researchers have reported an analogous effect in implementations based on nuclear magnetic resonance7,8. The demonstrated morphing between particle and wave characteristics of photons within a single experimental setting1 somehow shatters the acclaimed (although poorly understood) duality between them, and calls for a re-visitation of Bohr’s classic complementarity principle9. The debate about the nature of light cannot be settled because it is simply ill-defined: the description of a photon cannot be reduced to just ‘particle’ or ‘wave’6.

These feats reveal that, given the striking success of quantum mechanics, attributes such as ‘particle’ and ‘wave’ cannot sustain any higher epistemic meaning. Preparing a photon in a coherent superposition of particle and wave must be accepted as no more special than preparing it in a superposition of horizontal and vertical polarizations. Quantum technology may well come to take proper advantage of the wave-versus-particle character of the photon (or of an atom or molecule) as an additional degree of freedom to encode information, joining the likes of polarization, spin, momentum and so on.

In this respect, Tang et al.1 have demonstrated the first ever ‘character qubit’, or whatever you may wish to call it. More recently, in an independent realization of a quantum version of Wheeler’s delayed-choice experiment based on re-configurable integrated optics, researchers also verified the creation of entanglement in the ‘character’ degrees of freedom between the ancillary photon and the photon entering the circuit10. Another independent implementation of a similar experiment that has appeared even more recently involves preparing the photon to be tested and the ancillary photon in a polarization-entangled state, thereby providing an alternative demonstration of the morphing between particle and wave states11.

Ultimately we may need to abandon our best hopes to reconcile everyday language with the laws of science. Forget the terms ‘particle’ or ‘wave’ — let there be only ‘quantum light’. Stay tuned for the next gentle blow to common sense.
 
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Economic Crisis in China

Policy makers around the world have long envied China’s ability to get big things done. A huge 4 trillion-yuan ($630 billion) stimulus plan as the global economy cratered in 2008? No problem. Marshaling banks to lend trillions more? Check. Enacting sweeping regulatory changes at a moment’s notice? You bet.

Ahhh, the good old days. Now, a once-in-a-decade leadership shift is getting in the way of the stimulus-happy policies to which investors became accustomed. The nimbleness that helped China steer around the worst of the global crisis is confronting political paralysis of the kind more often seen in Japan, Europe and the U.S. The upshot is that China’s 7.6 percent growth rate may fall more in the next 12 months than anyone expects.

It’s not that Wen Jiabao doesn’t get the extent to which the supposedly unstoppable China has hit a wall. Just as in 2009, the premier is visiting key industrial cities such as Guangdong and Zhejiang. Wen is facing dour looks from manufacturers surrounded by mounting piles of unsold goods, a rare experience for the main engine of China’s economic rise.

Factory warehouses are cluttered with excess stock, store shelves are filled beyond capacity, and dealerships are choked with cars that used to speed from showroom to road. And yet Wen’s team in Beijing has been eerily silent about how it plans to revive things. That may be because the short answer is, it doesn’t.

Obvious Ways

One problem is that China has run out of obvious ways to kick-start its $7.3 trillion economy. It was easy in 2008: Pump tens of billions of dollars into a sweeping stimulus project and 10 percent growth followed. China’s success gave markets the impression that its leaders could wave some magic wand and growth would be the result.

Magic is in short supply now. Local governments are cash- strapped and awash in debts that could turn bad. The euro zone seems locked into permanent-crisis mode while the U.S. is bogged down with debt, economic stagnation and political paralysis. China proved it can live for a few years without U.S. and European customers, but not forever.

The bigger topic is politics amid this year’s leadership shift. Instead of tackling the issues of growth and economic reform, officials are punting on big decisions. As such, we are now officially living in the “G-Zero” era that Ian Bremmer, the president of Eurasia Group in New York, described in his new book

“Every Nation for Itself.”

At one time the weaker links within the Group of Seven nations were supported by the others. Those days are gone and now that China is sputtering, the G-Zero reality is upon us and manifesting itself in disturbing ways.

Take Asia’s surge of nationalism. Political scientists have loads of theories about why China, Japan and South Korea are suddenly at loggerheads: bad blood over World War II, energy needs, designs on controlling the Asian seas, the power vacuum left as the U.S. focused on two intractable wars. One theory that deserves more attention is how these countries deflect the blame for troubles at home.

In Japan, Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda is spectacularly unpopular after raising taxes and restarting nuclear reactors that were shuttered following last year’s earthquake. Playing up territorial disputes allows him to change the subject and throw a bone to Japan’s influential right-wingers. In Seoul, President Lee Myung Bak has been embarrassed by corruption charges against his family. Fanning popular anger about South Korea’s status in Asia has shifted the national dialog.

The same strategy prevails in China. Unwelcome headlines focus on the widening gap between rich and poor, the Bo Xilai scandal, and charges that China fudges economic and pollution statistics. Turning the public’s attention to China’s former colonizers has been a political winner.

Asia’s Loss

The loser in all this is economic cooperation in Asia. (MXAP) Also on the losing side is vital economic change in China. Over the last decade, Wen and President Hu Jintao produced rapid expansion, but few of the structural reforms China needs for balanced growth in the decades ahead. State-owned enterprises and banks are more dominant than ever, producing huge misallocations of resources and priorities. Meanwhile, no effort has been made to build a market that promotes domestic consumption.

Rather than retool the economy, China is content to rely on the old fast-growth, export-driven model. The trouble is, the Wen-Hu era lulled markets into counting on the constant injections of stimulus spending that gave China a unique, yet unsustainable, foundation. If China isn’t a gigantic bubble economy, it’s one made up of many smaller bubbles -- property, stocks, exports. These are the result of spending-induced growth and imbalances that might breed trouble down the road, including inflation and a bad-loan crisis.

Traders looking for another dose of stimulus are expressing their disappointment that none seems forthcoming. The Shanghai Composite Index (SHCOMP) is down 13 percent so far this quarter. Those declines may accelerate as China’s leadership transition distracts lame-duck officials from giving markets their fix. The same goes for a world economy more devoid of growth engines than ever.

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China gets worst ranking in-global poll since 2010


Global investors are losing faith in China, giving the country’s markets their worst rating in more than two years in the latest Bloomberg poll.

About a quarter of those surveyed say they expect Chinese markets to be among the worst performers over the next year. That’s the highest negative reading that the country has received in the quarterly Bloomberg Global Poll since January 2010 and was second only to the 45 percent rating that the European Union received in the Sept. 4 survey.

China “will suffer disproportionately from a global slowdown in growth,” said Benjamin Dunn, a poll participant and chief operating officer in Crested Butte,
Colorado, for portfolio management company Alpha Theory, in an e-mail. It “will be unable to prevent a hard landing” of its economy.

The U.S. again came out on top in the poll of 847 investors, analysts and traders who are Bloomberg subscribers: 46 percent say its markets will be among those offering the best returns over the next year, the same as in the previous survey in May. Close to three-quarters expect the Federal Reserve to act next week to support the economy, either by extending its pledge of low interest rates, buying bonds, or by doing both.

Commodities in general and gold in particular gained favor with investors in the poll. Eighteen percent of those surveyed expect commodities to offer the highest returns over the next year. That’s up from 13 percent in May and was second only to stocks, which won the backing of a third of investors. Gold came in third, with 16 percent, up from 11 percent in May.

Commodity Prices

“Monetary easing by global central banks will push commodity prices higher,” Anuraj Benara, a poll respondent and senior manager of institutional equity sales for SMC Global Securities in Mumbai, India, said in an e-mail.

Some investors also are turning bullish on crisis-racked Europe, though a greater percentage remains bearish. More than one in five picked EU markets as among those that will offer the best returns over the next year. That’s the highest reading for the region since the poll began in 2009 and was second only to the U.S. in the latest survey, which was taken before the European Central Bank decided yesterday on an unlimited bond- purchase program. Brazil was third and China fourth in the poll.

China was a favorite of global investors in the wake of 2008-09 financial crisis, as stepped-up government spending and interest rate cuts powered the economy to a year-over-year growth rate of 11.9 percent in the first quarter of 2010.

Enthusiasm Waned

Investor enthusiasm for the country has since waned as growth has slackened, first in reaction to government efforts to contain inflation and puncture a property price bubble, and more recently due to a slowdown in Europe. Gross domestic product rose 7.6 percent last quarter from a year earlier, the slowest pace in three years.

More than three of five poll respondents described the Chinese economy as deteriorating, up from less than one in three in May. One-third rated the risk of a hard landing as high, up from 23 percent in May. Another 44 percent saw it as a “medium threat.”

Outgoing Communist Party chief Hu Jintao has held back on steps to spur the slowing economy, raising the risk that the country will miss its 7.5 percent growth target for this year.

“The changing of the political guard in China has slowed the government’s stimulus response,” Kim Caughey Forrest, senior equity analyst for Fort Pitt Capital Group in Pittsburgh, who took part in the poll, said in an e-mail. “It’s pretty clear that current leadership is not going to start new programs, so the lag
time is even longer on any stimulus.”

Standing Suffered

Hu’s standing with investors has suffered ahead of the leadership change later this year. Two in five voiced pessimism about the impact of his policies on the investment climate in the country. That’s up from less than one in three in May and is the highest negative reading since the poll began asking that question two years ago.

“The political environment in China is more favorable to hiding real problems” such as the growing level of non- performing bank loans, said Kevin Guezo, who oversees foreign exchange and interest rate derivative sales at Credit Mutuel Arkea, a French cooperative bank in Lyon, France. Guezo took part in the poll and shared his views in an e-mail.

Investors also have turned more pessimistic about the global economy. About half described it as deteriorating, compared with 37 percent who said that in the last poll. Those in the U.S. were the most downbeat.

Investor Assessments

The poll also reflects an erosion in investor assessments of the U.S. economy, with 22 percent saying the economy is deteriorating, compared with 18 percent who said that in May.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke is expected to take further steps to promote growth at the central bank’s meeting on Sept. 12-13, according to the poll. More than one in three of those surveyed look for another round of quantitative easing, or bond buying, from the central bank.

Bernanke has made “it patently clear that the Fed will take any action it feels it needs to to try and address its mandate -- full employment and stable prices,” Forrest said. “Given the economy has probably slowed, from all the signs we observe in government and company data, we think he” will go ahead with QE.

The Fed, which cut its target for the federal funds rate to zero to 0.25 percent in December 2008, has said it expects to keep the overnight interbank lending rate “exceptionally low” at least through late 2014. A majority of investors polled do not see the Fed raising rates before 2015, with 16 percent saying an increase won’t come until 2016 or later.

Housing Market

The low rates have helped the housing market. The S&P/Case- Shiller index of home prices in 20 cities climbed in June from a year earlier, the first gain since September 2010, according to a report from the group last month.

Forty-six percent of investors surveyed expect U.S. house prices to increase further in the next six months. Only 14 percent see them falling.
Investor enthusiasm for stocks ebbed in the latest survey. Thirty-seven percent say they plan to increase their holdings of equities in the next six months, down from 40 percent in May and the lowest since that question was first asked in 2010.

The increased caution is most evident when it comes to Asian markets. One third forecast that the MSCI Asia Pacific Index will be higher six months from now -- the least bullish reading in almost two years. The stock gauge rose 0.1 percent yesterday to 115.94 after falling on Wednesday to its lowest level since July 27.

Gold Attractive

An increasing number of investors are attracted to gold, according to the poll. A majority expect gold prices to be higher in six months’ time, while about one in three intends to increase their holdings of the yellow metal.

Gold prices rose to the highest since March yesterday after the ECB’s bond-purchase decision. Futures for December delivery gained 0.7 percent to settle at $1,705.60 an ounce at 1:45 p.m. on the Comex in New York.

Oil is also gaining favor among investors, according to the poll. One in five plan to increase their exposure to oil in their portfolios over the next six months, up from 14 percent in May.

More than two in five see prices rising over that time frame, roughly double the amount who project them falling. Crude oil for October delivery advanced 17 cents to settle at $95.53 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange yesterday.

Twenty percent rate the risk of a Middle East war as high, up from 15 percent in May.

As has been the case since October 2009, bonds were picked as the asset class projected to have the worst returns over the next year.

The Bloomberg Global Poll was conducted by Selzer & Co., a Des Moines, Iowa-based firm. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points.
 
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BEIJING -- China's imports shrank unexpectedly in August in a sign its economic slump is worsening, and the Chinese president warned growth could slow further, prompting expectations of possible new stimulus spending.

Imports declined 2.6% from a year earlier, below analysts' expectations of growth in low single digits, data showed Monday.

That came on top of August's decline in factory output to a three-year low and other signs growth is still decelerating despite repeated stimulus efforts.

The weakness in China's demand for imports is bad news for exporters in southeast Asia, Australia, Brazil and elsewhere that are counting on its appetite for oil, iron ore, industrial components and other goods to offset anemic Western markets.

Analysts expect Chinese growth that fell to a three-year low of 7.6% in the latest quarter to rebound late this year or in early 2013.

But they say it likely will be too weak to drive a global recovery without improvement in the U.S., which is struggling with a sluggish recovery, and debt-hampered Europe.

President Hu Jintao cited slack exports and unbalanced domestic growth as challenges for a Chinese recovery.

"Pressure for economic growth to slow is obvious," Hu said at the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in Vladivostok, Russia, according to a text released by the Chinese government.

Hu's speech Sunday gave no growth forecast or details of possible new stimulus but promised to continue a "proactive fiscal policy," or government spending to pump up the economy.

Beijing has cut interest rates twice since early June and is pumping money into the economy through higher spending on building subways and other public works.

Still, activity has weakened steadily, spurring some analysts to cut growth forecasts and push back the timing of a possible recovery.

"The comments made by President Hu yesterday made it clear that there will be more funding support for infrastructure investments," said Goldman Sachs economists Yu Song and Yin Zhang in a report.

The slowdown hit at a politically sensitive time for the ruling Communist Party, which is trying to enforce calm as it prepares to hand power to Hu's successor and other younger leaders in a once-a-decade transition.

Chinese imports shrink, sign of economic woes | Nation/world Business | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
 
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Insight: China's steel traders expose banks' bad debts Of Over 400billion

(Reuters) - China's banks are coming after the country's steel traders, hauling executives into court to chase down loans that some traders said they didn't initially need and can't now repay.

The heavy push to recover the loans is another sign of strain on China's financial system at a time when the country's leaders are contemplating another round of stimulus to boost the economy, and when banks are worried about bad debts piling up.

The battle between the banks and steel traders also exposes flaws in the 4 trillion ($629 billion) stimulus round in 2008, and offers a warning to those calling for pumping more money into the system. At that time, Chinese banks threw money at the steel trade - a crucial cog in supplying the country's massive construction and infrastructure growth.

But those steel loans, after offering a quick fix, became excessive, poorly managed, or a combination of the two. Government officials insisted more money was needed to prop up the industry. Steel executives said the money flow was too heavy, and they had to put the money to work in real estate and the stock market.

"After the financial crisis, when the government released its stimulus, banks begged us to borrow money we didn't need," Li Huanhan, the owner of Shanghai Shunze Steel Trading, told a judge at a recent hearing. "We had nothing to do with the money, so we turned to other investments, like real estate."

PLUSH APARTMENTS

While some loans did go towards equipment and expansion, executives admit money was also used for pet property projects, plush apartments and stock market bets.

By the end of last year, China's steel industry had a total debt burden of $400 billion - around the size of South Africa's economy. Some of China's leading mills alone owe 200-300 billion yuan ($32-$47 billion), according to the China Iron and Steel Association.

The aggressive tack by China's lenders, many of which are state-controlled, comes as pressure builds inside a stretched financial system. Results at China's big banks show profit growth is at its weakest since the global financial crisis, while bad loans rose for a third straight quarter to 456.5 billion yuan ($71.8 billion) by June, the China Banking Regulatory Commission said this month.

Steel traders are unlikely to be helping the bad loan issue, with Shanghai steel futures having almost halved from their 2009 highs to below 3,400 yuan ($540) a metric ton (1.1023 ton).

As the steel market turned - a victim of crippling over-capacity, heavy debt and sliding prices - alarm bells sounded among banks and regulators about the risk of lending to the industry. In June, after months of cajoling, banks were ordered to clamp down on new lending to steel traders.

Steel industry executives complain the banks went overboard.

"Banks should consider the greater good and not just focus on protecting their own interests," said Xiao Zhicheng, head of the Zhouning Chamber of Commerce that overlooks Shanghai's steel trading industry's interests. "Instead of pumping in more blood to save the patient, it's choosing to draw more blood."

TAKEN TO COURT

In one Shanghai courtroom, steel trading firm boss Li tries to fend off a fed-up lender. China Minsheng Bank, the country's eighth-biggest lender, is trying to recover 3 million yuan ($472,100) of loans it made to the trading firm.

When the bank recalled the loan in June, Li tried to sell two Shanghai apartments she had used as collateral. In a flat property market, she came up empty-handed.

Her plea for more time to repay is one of more than 20 court cases Chinese banks have taken against steel traders. The targets tend to be mainly smaller trading firms with fewer than 50 employees, as the larger state-backed steel firms have more cash reserves.

These traders are mainly based in and around Shanghai, a tight-knit community drawn from Zhouning in the southern province of Fujian. At its peak in 2009, some 12,000 steel trading companies were scattered across the city, accounting for close to 3 percent of Shanghai's GDP, according to the local business chamber.

By some estimates, the number of steel traders has fallen by half, as steel prices crumpled in the third quarter of 2011.

"The court cases you see are usually when things get desperate," said a loans official at a Shanghai branch of Bank of Communications, who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the subject. "We've had people go missing. Some have fled overseas, while others just take on a new identity and move somewhere else."

The owner of one of China's biggest steel trading firms, Yizhou Group, skipped the country with his wife and children after piling up about 1 billion yuan ($157 million) in loans to banks including Bank of Communications, the official said.

Calls to Yizhou were not answered.

In the Shanghai courtroom, lawyers for Minsheng Bank told Li after the hearing that banks were desperate to recall loans as they had heard of some borrowers going missing with tens of millions of yuan still owed.

"One trader fled to Australia after borrowing 23 million yuan, while others used their property as collateral to several banks at the same time " Li said, recounting what she'd heard from a lawyer. "So banks are very cautious and taking immediate action against borrowers if they don't repay."

Another steel trader said banks promised fresh loans once existing loans had been repaid, but then withdrew credit lines.

"Some banks lied to us that they will give out new loans immediately after we repay the old ones, but they never really did. They just shut down the credit lines after they got the money back," said a Fujian trader surnamed Xiao from a small Shanghai trading firm with just eight employees.

Some traders resorted to finding private lending at a much higher cost so they could pay back bank loans, in the hope of getting new loans from the banks - leaving them mired in expensive debt when the banks pulled the plug.

"The banks have taken a tougher stance this year and not only required company assets to be used as collateral but also required the borrowers to use their own property as collateral," said Xiao.

HIGH RISK, HIGH RATES

For the banks, lending to steel traders was highly profitable while it lasted.

China Minsheng charged interest rates of up to 24 percent a year to small- and medium-sized trading firms, according to some in the industry - four times the government-set lending rate.

Bankers say the higher rates they charge are a direct response to the higher risk profile the steel traders carry, and not a single Minsheng loan to steel traders can be called a non-performing loan under China's four-tier classification system, said Shi Jie, assistant to Minsheng Bank's president.

"The steel trading sector is a particularly high-risk sector," Shi said. "We've been very carefully controlling our risks there, and working with borrowers to come to a reasonable agreement if there are problems."

In China, a loan is only classified as non-performing if it is overdue for more than 90 days and the borrower has missed interest payments. Otherwise, troubled loans can be classified under a different category known as "special mention" loans, or they can be called "overdue".

Domestic steel prices rose by 25 percent in April-September 2009 before prices slumped. While the industry rode the price spike, bank loans offered a route to investing outside the industry.

The most common loan method was through a letter of credit, where banks paid for a trader's purchase and then gave the trader 3-12 months to repay. That allowed traders a window where they could sell the goods and use the proceeds to invest.

Executives say they couldn't refuse the money coming in, and the cash did sometimes go into real estate or even 'shadow banking', where they would take the loan and lend it to another party at a higher rate.

FLIGHT, SUICIDES

Bank of China said loans to industries at risk of overcapcity, such as steel and shipbuilding, made up less than 4 percent of its total loans and had a bad debt ratio lower than its overall loan book.

"We're looking to cut our exposure to industries at risk of overcapacity," the bank's president Li Lihui said. "Internally, we are raising our own risk control measures and working with clients to cut our risk exposure."

Shanghai Gangmin Metals, which borrowed from banks including China Construction Bank, said most of the money was used to pay for steel supplies, though it did have other investments.

"Money obviously needs to be put to work ... you can't let it sit in a bank account," said the company's general manager Su Cheng. "Ultimately, we think we'll be able to reach a reasonable agreement with the banks. We just need more time."

Many of Su's peers aren't so confident.

Reports of steel traders fleeing China are becoming more widespread, as are local media articles of indebted executives committing suicide.

Ratings agency Fitch said last week that China's steel sector continued to suffer from oversupply and weak prices could persist through the first quarter of 2013. China's biggest steelmaker Baoshan Iron and Steel has predicted a "most difficult" third-quarter.

"There's good reason for the banks' lack of confidence in steel traders," said Arthur Kwong, head of Asia Pacific Equities at BNP Paribas Investment Partners in Hong Kong, which has total assets under management of $640 billion globally. "When you have an industry where people run away after falling behind on their loans, that doesn't inspire a lot of people."

(Reporting by Ruby Lian in SHANGHAI and Kelvin Soh in HONG KONG; Editing by Michael Flaherty and Ian Geoghegan)
 
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