China Economy Forum

[Aramsogo]

@ rcrmj - lol at yer post on illegal immigration. I suggest you go find out about the numerous Chinese illegals we get over here coming in for low end menial jobs. Most can't even afford to pay back those crime syndicates that smuggled them in and end up committing suicide. Every other week, some poor Chinese lady ends up killing herself and her kid in some hole-in-the-wall apartment or drowns herself in some river. I don't see Europeans and Americans doing that. We have many of them here too, and they come in as decent, well-paid professionals. And the Chinese keep flooding in as 'coolies' - if your country is such as a paradise, this would not be happening.

LOL, only coolies are indian slaves in middle east.

Singapore only tries to keep Indian and Malay population from growing too much and for good reason.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No it is not, and I did not say that either. I suggest you come over here to Singapore to take lessons in English. (on second thoughts, no. We have enough of those non-English speaking types flooding our country as bus drivers and laborers. btw, FYI, undergraduate students coming from China to Singapore are given a full semester prep course in English for free. Might wanna take advantage of that, and if u wanna diss us further, no problem - just ask your countrymen to leave us instead of coming here to seek greener pastures. )

@ pissybits - yes u r right, I have never set foot in China myself, probably never will. But I know enough people who have, enough teams that have gone up there for community service, seen enough pictures and read plenty about those trips. I have even attended the pre and post expedition briefings on such trips as I have many times assisted those teams in their fund-raiser campaigns. And yes, proper toilets have always been one of the major issues. No doubt, its not the ONLY problem in China, neither is it a MAJOR problem. It was just one of the first few examples that came to my mind, having heard about it first hand a million times. I'm not saying India does not have its problem, it certainly does, and its economic reforms came a full decade behind China too. Yet, China is plagued with numerous problems in itself which some of the 'ultra-Nationalist' Chinese on this forums fail to recognize or completely overlook in their efforts to diss India. Both countries have plenty of work to be done internally before becoming a true global superpower. I agree with your 'pot calling the kettle black' and would like to point out that it works both ways.

I'm fine with people talking about my English. I know many Indians are proud of their English and take great offense to anyone saying their English is bad. That may be because of the colonial legacy. May I suggest the book "Black Skin, White Masks" by Franz Fanon? Unlike Indians, Chinese take no offense to people saying their English is bad. Chinese have no duty to have good English.

All I can say is, China has numerous world recognized engineering achievements that are at the cutting edge of science. I do not know even ONE achievement like this for India. We may have problems but we have our strengths. If you can convince yourself India has certain strengths that no other country has, you don't need to convince me.

 

[Nan Yang]

and you have been to India I presume? My guess is you probably don't even know China well enough. 100km out of Shanghai and even proper toilets are hard to come by. We send numerous expeditions every year as part of charity work to help build roofs for your schools in Yunnan, Inner Mongolia and even donate huge sums of money and equipment. I know this because I work at the University and I've personally seen and spoken to the numerous teams we send up each year to help u guys with the basic infrastructure u severely lack in the rural areas. Well, since u like to call yourselves the next superpower, think about how on earth are u even a superpower when u r still lagging real far behind the US and western Europe in such basic developments.

I went to Shanghai and numerous cities hours out of Shanghai. HangZhou, Wuxi, HangDian, Yiwu, Nanjing and Suzhou. Go look at the map. Compared with Malaysia, the streets were all very clean and no open drains. There are also no clutter along the 5foot walkway unlike in Malaysia where the 5foot way are used as extension for the shops or restaurant. All the farmers there live in 4 storeys apartment blocks. I saw these all along the way. Most of them looks neat and new. Each hold up to 3 generation of one family. Most of them also engaged in industry. They are among the richest farmers I have seen.

I have not been to India. But 2 of my close colleagues has and the first thing they told me when they returned was the extreme poverty.

Farmer apartment block somewhere on the road after leaving HangZhou going to Yiwu.

 

[sweetgrape]

Why these days, many indian like to browse the thread, and post the comments here!!!
Why don't they open the news thread about negative news about china? That will attract more attentions. loser behavior!!!

 

[UKBengali]

I'm fine with people talking about my English. I know many Indians are proud of their English and take great offense to anyone saying their English is bad. That may be because of the colonial legacy. May I suggest the book "Black Skin, White Masks" by Franz Fanon? Unlike Indians, Chinese take no offense to people saying their English is bad. Chinese have no duty to have good English.

All I can say is, China has numerous world recognized engineering achievements that are at the cutting edge of science. I do not know even ONE achievement like this for India. We may have problems but we have our strengths. If you can convince yourself India has certain strengths that no other country has, you don't need to convince me.

Some Indians think white people are their gods. Forget them as they have no honour and self-respect.

 

[Bobby]

Some Indians think white people are their gods. Forget them as they have no honour and self-respect.

Kind of buttering you are doing for China....I can see your honour and self-respect.

 

[Merilion]

I'm not saying India does not have its problem, it certainly does, and its economic reforms came a full decade behind China too. Yet, China is plagued with numerous problems in itself which some of the 'ultra-Nationalist' Chinese on this forums fail to recognize or completely overlook in their efforts to diss India. Both countries have plenty of work to be done internally before becoming a true global superpower. I agree with your 'pot calling the kettle black' and would like to point out that it works both ways.

pls save that 'india economic reforms came a full decade behind China' BS to yourself only. A true Singaporean will never use that pathetic argument as an excuse. so don't try to pretend you are.

 

[1962 spanking]

kid, i am in business field for long time, let me tell you some sad truth..within the community Indian businessmen regarded as one of the most unethical and dirty groups...and more annoyingly, Indians always promise 120% while only giving 60% results. if you are really talking about cheating economy, your india economy fits the category very well, 1.2 billion population with as little as just over 1 trillion yet still based on borrowing from foreign institutions plus primitive consumption.

you can believe in whatever you like that China's economy is 'cheated', but in reality there are thousands of indians start coming to China to make money just like how they are swaming into europ and america....guess in the real world the 'promising' 'shinning' slum isnt too much attractive to indians no?


ps. I can tell you are a classic indian dreamer as I can see from your LOCATION: 'superpower'



---------- Post added at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 AM ----------


you know when low IQ people run out of argument they start being retard, lol

excellent point.

indians are an untrustworthy bunch.
bunch of crooks.
thats why they are easy to exploit by the west, can bribe and manipulate the them.

 

[Martian2]

Huawei Unveils the "World's Fastest Smartphone"

"Huawei Unveils Quad-Core Ascend D Smartphones
By Chloe Albanesius
February 26, 2012 10:34am EST

[The world's fastest smartphone: Huawei quad-core Ascend D in black.]

BARCELONA—Huawei kicked off Mobile World Congress here by introducing the quad-core Ascend D quad, which the company has dubbed the "world's fastest smartphone."

Huawei also unveiled the Ascend D quad XL and Ascend D1.

The Ascend D quad and quad XL boast a 4.5-inch, 1280-by-720 HD touch screen that Huawei said is the "most compact" option on the market thanks to an "infinity" screen design.

The devices run Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich, the most recent version of the mobile OS. The Ascend D will run a 1.2-GHz Huawei K3V2 processor, while the Ascend D quad XL will include a 1.5-GHz chip.

Both devices include 32-bit true color graphic processors, an 8-megapixel rear-facing camera with 1080p full HD video capture and a 1.3-megapixel front-facing camera with 720p video capture.

The Ascend D includes a 1800mAh battery, while the Ascend D quad XL boasts a 2500mAh battery.

The Ascend D1, meanwhile, also includes a 4.5-inch screen, runs Ice Cream Sandwich, and the 8-megapixel rear-facing and 1.3-megapixel front-facing cameras. But the Ascend D1 will run a TI OMAP4460 1.5-GHz chip and a 1670mAh battery.

The Ascend D quad and D1 measure 8.9 x 64 x 129mm, while the Ascend D quad XL comes in at 10.9 x 64 x 129mm.

All three smartphones include 8GB of memory and 16GB of RAM.

The devices will not initially be 4G LTE-capable, but it's expected by Q3 or Q4, Huawei said.

Huawei promised "excellent" outdoor screen quality, which will enable use even in direct sunlight. The company also said the Ascend smartphones will include 330 pixels per inch (PPI); the iPhone 4S includes 326 PPI, Huawei was quick to point out.

Huawei also talked up the voice quality of the new Ascend devices, which include dual microphone noise reduction thanks to the company's Audience earSmart technology. Huawei said this will decrease background noise - if a friend leaves you a message from a noisy bar, for example.

The Ascend D quad devices will be available in China, Australia, Europe, Asia-Pacific, North and South America, and the Middle East in the second quarter. The Ascend D1 will be available in the same markets starting in April.

The devices will originally come in white and black, but more color options will be available at a later date.

Pricing was not announced.

Huawei shipped 20 million devices last year, which it hopes to increase to 60 million this year, thanks in large part to the Chinese market."

 

[Shaurya]

China Stock Rally to End as Policies Disappoint, BofA’s Cui Says

China’s stocks may fall as much as 13 percent by the end of the year as the central bank’s “fine- tuning” of monetary policies won’t be enough to offset an economic slowdown, according to Bank of America Corp.
The government needs to cut interest rates or relax curbs in the property market to sustain this year’s 9.3 percent rebound for the Shanghai Composite Index (SHCOMP), David Cui, chief China strategist at the Merrill Lynch unit, said in an interview in its Shanghai office yesterday. Cui, 43, who has been bearish on China equities since May 2010, said the Shanghai gauge may drop to 2,100 by year-end. It rose 0.9 percent to 2,403.59 yesterday.
“If the government only does fine tuning, it’s not sufficient to remove the major overhangs behind the poor market performance over the past two years or so, including a lack of a new and sustainable growth driver and the banking system’s bad debts,” said Cui. “The markets will likely remain lukewarm.”
China’s stocks have rebounded this year on speculation the government will loosen monetary policies to stem a decline in economic growth triggered by Europe’s debt crisis and a slumping property market. The Shanghai gauge tumbled 33 percent over the past two years, making it the worst performer among the world’s 10 biggest markets. The People’s Bank of China increased interest rates and lenders’ reserve-requirement ratios last year to tame consumer prices that rose 4.5 percent last month, up from 4.1 percent in December.

China Stock Rally to End as Policies Disappoint, BofA

 

[Shaurya]

China’s Billionaire Lawmakers Make U.S. Peers Look Like Paupers

The richest 70 members of China’s legislature added more to their wealth last year than the combined net worth of all 535 members of the U.S. Congress, the president and his Cabinet, and the nine Supreme Court justices.
The net worth of the 70 richest delegates in China’s National People’s Congress, which opens its annual session on March 5, rose to 565.8 billion yuan ($89.8 billion) in 2011, a gain of $11.5 billion from 2010, according to figures from the Hurun Report, which tracks the country’s wealthy. That compares to the $7.5 billion net worth of all 660 top officials in the three branches of the U.S. government.
The income gain by NPC members reflects the imbalances in economic growth in China, where per capita annual income in 2010 was $2,425, less than in Belarus and a fraction of the $37,527 in the U.S. The disparity points to the challenges that China’s new generation of leaders, to be named this year, faces in countering a rise in social unrest fueled by illegal land grabs and corruption.
“It is extraordinary to see this degree of a marriage of wealth and politics,” said Kenneth Lieberthal, director of the John L. Thornton China Center at Washington’s Brookings Institution. “It certainly lends vivid texture to the widespread complaints in China about an extreme inequality of wealth in the country now.”
Most Powerful
The National People’s Congress, whose annual meeting will run for a week and a half, is legally the highest governmental body in China. While the legislature, with about 3,000 members, is often derided as a rubberstamp parliament, its members are some of China’s most powerful politicians and executives, wielding power in their home provinces and weighing in on proposals such as whether to impose a nationwide property tax.
“The NPC is not exactly what you would call a center of power, but being on it certainly gets you deeply engaged in the political system,” Lieberthal said.
Hurun, a Shanghai-based publisher of magazines targeted at the Chinese luxury consumer, uses publicly available information such as corporate filings to compile its annual list of the richest people in China. It then cross-checks that data with the government’s list of NPC members.
Zong Qinghou, chairman of beverage-maker Hangzhou Wahaha Group (HWGZ) and China’s second-richest person, with a family fortune of 68 billion yuan, is a member. So is Wu Yajun, chairwoman of Beijing-based Longfor Properties (LHREZ) Co. She has family wealth of 42 billion yuan, according to the Hurun Report.
Jiang’s Pushing
Former President Jiang Zemin pushed for the inclusion of wealthy private entrepreneurs into the Communist Party a decade ago. Now they have regular access to top party leaders who are also NPC members.
The third-richest person in the NPC, auto-parts magnate Lu Guanqiu, traveled with Vice President Xi Jinping to the U.S. during his official visit this month, attending a meeting with Vice President Joseph Biden and Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner in Washington on Feb. 14.
“The rich in China have strong incentive to become ‘within system’ due to the relative weakness in the rule of law and of property rights,” Victor Shih, a professor at Evanston, Illinois-based Northwestern University who studies Chinese politics and finance, wrote in an e-mail. Being a member of the NPC “means that one’s commercial or political rival cannot easily throw one in jail or confiscate one’s property.”
Richest Woman
Wu, who is China’s richest woman, doesn’t give media interviews, her spokeswoman said. Lu wasn’t available for an interview, his spokesman said. Zong wouldn’t comment on the makeup of the NPC because that’s a matter determined by the central government, Wahaha spokesman Shan Qining said in a phone interview.
Many of the NPC’s richest members, including Longfor’s Wu, are executives in real estate, a sector that has spurred protests and contributed to the rising wealth gap between city dwellers and farmers.
A land grab by a property developer in Wukan, a fishing town in southern China’s Guangdong province, sparked protests in December that resulted in the expulsion of its Communist Party leaders. Premier Wen Jiabao has pledged to crack down on such land grabs and work to ease wealth disparities.
China’s top political leaders, including President Hu Jintao and Wen, don’t disclose their personal finances or those of their families.
Chinese private executives such as Zong and Lu have built their fortunes on the back of economic growth that has averaged 10.1 percent in the last 30 years. The U.S. economy expanded by 1.6 percent in the last three months of 2011.
Out Of Poverty
Regular Chinese have also benefited from the growth of China’s economy, which surpassed Japan as the world’s second biggest in 2010. Since introducing free-market policies, China has lifted 300 million of its 1.3 billion citizens out of poverty, according to the United Nations.
Annual growth of per capita GDP in China was 9.8 percent at the end of 2010. Per capita GDP has more than doubled since 2000, according to the World Bank.
The wealth gap between legislatures holds with statistically comparable samples. The richest 2 percent of the NPC -- 60 people -- had an average wealth of $1.44 billion per person. The richest 2 percent of Congress -- 11 members -- had an average wealth of $323 million.
The U.S. figures come from a downloadable database on the website of the Washington-based Center for Responsive Politics. The U.S. figures are inflated because the database includes members of Congress who were retired or defeated in the 2010 elections as well as their replacements.
Issa’s Wealth
The wealth of members of Congress did increase at a higher rate than that of their Chinese peers in the most recent disclosures as U.S. equity markets outperformed China’s. The average wealth of the richest 2 percent of Congress rose 22 percent in 2010 from 2009. The Standard and Poor’s 500 Index rose 12.8 percent in 2010.
The wealth of the top 2 percent of NPC delegates rose 13 percent in the 2011 Hurun list following a 14.3 percent fall in the Shanghai Stock Exchange Composite Index in 2010 and a further 21.7 percent drop last year. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng dropped 20 percent in 2011 and the Shenzhen Composite fell 33 percent in the same period.
The wealthiest member of the U.S. Congress is Representative Darrell Issa, the California Republican who had a maximum wealth of $700.9 million in 2010, according to the center. If he were in China’s NPC, he would be ranked 40th. Per capita income in China is about one-sixth the U.S. level when adjusted for differences in purchasing power.
‘Cozy Relationship’
Financial disclosure forms ask lawmakers and other top U.S. officials to list the value of their individual assets in ranges, such as $1,001 to $15,000 or $1,000,001 to $5,000,000. Bloomberg News used the maximum range of wealth on the U.S. disclosures to compare with the Chinese NPC.
Rupert Hoogewerf, chairman and chief researcher for the Hurun Report, estimates that for every Chinese billionaire the company discovers for its list, there is another one it misses, meaning the gap between the wealth of China’s NPC and the U.S. Congress may be greater still.
“The prevalence of billionaires in the NPC shows the cozy relationship between the wealthy and the Communist Party,” said Bruce Jacobs, a professor of Asian languages and studies at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia. “In all levels of the system there seem to be local officials in cahoots with entrepreneurs, enriching themselves, and this has led to a lot of the demonstrations.”

China

 

[rcrmj]

China’s Billionaire Lawmakers Make U.S. Peers Look Like Paupers
China

so this means the chinese politicians are becoming more like Indian high caste greedy rullers? well this is really sad``indeed!

---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

excellent point.

indians are an untrustworthy bunch.
bunch of crooks.
thats why they are easy to exploit by the west, can bribe and manipulate the them.

let me give you two wrods, 'slave mentality'

 

[Aramsogo]

^^^^

I would just ignore the Indian dude. He'll get banned soon enough.

The Bloomberg article is just lazy reporting. The implied causality is reversed. In China, successful business people are invited in as part of the 3 Represents. These people were rich already. That does not mean there is no official corruption. There's plenty and Li Peng's family may be one of the richest in China.

To do an apples to apples comparison with the US, Bloomberg should have used something like the Allen and Company annual Sun Valley retreat for American business leaders. This annual gathering of Bill Gates and Warren Buffetts is far richer. Again, lazy reporting Indians can't decipher.

 

[Shaurya]

China 'risks economic crisis': World Bank

BEIJING (AFP) - China could face an economic crisis in the next 20 years if Beijing does not quickly overhaul its development model, World Bank and Chinese government researchers warned on Monday.

The world's second-largest economy was at a "turning point" and the need for deep reforms was urgent, the analysts said in a report forecasting China's economic growth would nearly halve in the next two decades.

China must make a number of changes, such as scaling back its vast and powerful state-owned enterprises, breaking up monopolies in strategic sectors and making it easier for small companies to access financing, they said.

"China could postpone reforms and risk the possibility of an economic crisis in the future or it could implement reforms proactively," according to the "China 2030" report prepared by the World Bank and the Development Research Centre under the State Council, China's cabinet.

"Proactive policy change has been key to China?s economic success and the calls for reforms within the country have never been louder."

After averaging 10 percent annual growth for the past 30 years, China's export and investment-driven economic model was no longer sustainable, World Bank President Robert Zoellick said at the launch of the study.

"The case for reform is compelling because China has now reached a turning point in its development path," Zoellick told a conference in Beijing.

"The country's current growth model is unsustainable. This is not the time just for muddling through -- it's time to get ahead of events and to adapt to major changes in the world and national economies."

The report was backed by Vice President Xi Jinping and Vice Premier Li Keqiang, who are expected to succeed President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao during a major transition of power that begins at the end of this year.

Despite this high-level support, the report is likely to face resistance from people with "vested interests" in the current model, Zoellick said.

"Reforms are not easy -- they often generate pushback," he said.

Liu Shijin, vice minister of the Development Research Centre, said the reforms were necessary as the Asian powerhouse slows to five to six percent annual growth in the next 20 years from the current nine percent.

Chinese leaders frequently talk about the need to reform the country's economic model, partly by reducing its heavy reliance on exports and increasing domestic consumption.

But significant reforms have been slow as stability-obsessed leaders try to maintain rapid economic growth seen as essential to create enough jobs for the country's 1.3 billion people and keep a lid on unrest.

Beijing prohibits or restricts foreign investment in certain sectors such as auto, energy, finance, banking and telecommunications, drawing criticism from overseas competitors over the lack of market access and unfair treatment.

Domestically, privately owned firms often complain about the lack of competition and the fact they cannot access financing from commercial banks, which prefer to lend money to major state-owned enterprises.

The report also urges Beijing to commercialise the banking system and gradually remove interest rate controls as it seeks to "complete its transition to a market economy".

Other recommendations called for greater innovation, further social welfare reforms, better protection for farmers' land rights and market incentives to encourage companies and households to adopt green technology.

Such "concrete measures" were necessary as China seeks economic growth "based on stability", said Li Wei, Minister of the Development Research Centre.

Despite the ongoing eurozone crisis and weakness in the United States, Zoellick played down fears of an economic disaster in China in the near term.

There are "stress points that will expand over time rather than (turn into) a crisis," Zoellick said, forecasting a soft landing for the Asian powerhouse.

But he acknowledged that the "devil will be in the implementation" of the reforms.

China 'risks economic crisis': World Bank - The West Australian

 

[Shaurya]

How Will China Pay Off Its Debt?

Here’s some terrific news about China’s economy: at the end of last year, the debt-to-GDP ratio of the Chinese government, the key measure of its fiscal sustainability, stood at 16.3%. That’s an improvement from the already impressive 17% at year-end 2010.

Based in large part on Beijing’s low debt load, the Economist’s “wiggle-room index,” which ranks economies on their ability to afford stimulative measures, assigns a great rating to China. Of 27 emerging nations, only petroleum-blessed Saudi Arabia and Indonesia look stronger.


China does not have as urgent a need to bolster growth as other newly developing countries, the Economist suggests, and in any event it has lots of space to wiggle. “China’s ample room for easing supports the case for a soft rather than a hard landing of its economy,” the publication says.

All this sounds wonderful, but none of it correlates with the facts. The 16.3% calculation excludes Beijing’s “hidden liabilities.” Once you add them in, China’s debt-to-GDP ratio increases to somewhere between 90% and 160%. And if you believe Beijing has been overstating its GDP recently—it has, at least starting from the last quarter of last year—China’s ratio approximates Greece’s 164%.

Analysts, surprisingly, don’t seem to be concerned about Beijing’s debt, no matter how it is calculated. As Tom Holland of the South China Morning Post points out, the assumption is that China can grow its way out of this problem because it has always been able to do so in the past.

China’s economy, despite the Economist’s assessment, is already landing hard. January’s results were dismal—the economy looks like it may even have contracted last month—and there will not be much improvement until the summer, if then. If there is no marked uptick this year, Beijing faces difficult choices because, as the “ghost city” phenomenon indicates, there has been a gross misallocation of capital since the end of 2008.

What are Beijing’s choices? First, central government technocrats could force the banks to absorb losses. At first glance, it appears the banks could afford substantial write-offs. The industry’s non-performing loan ratio was 0.96% at the end of last year, down from an already unbelievable 1.14% at the end of 2010. Yet the central government will not force banks to write off large quantities of loans because the year-end 2011 ratio does not reflect the real state of bank balance sheets. The Ministry of Finance could again recapitalize the banks, but that may not be feasible. The central government has yet to clear all the bad loans from the big bailout at the end of the 1990s. China’s hidden liabilities include warehoused loans from that era, which Holland estimates amount to 7.5% of GDP.

So there is no or minimal growth, the banks are not strong enough to shoulder significant losses, and the central government is weighed down by 1990s-era bad loans. What is a central government technocrat to do?

“Beijing can take the path traditionally followed by other governments around the world and inflate its way out of the problem,” Holland wrote on Friday. The general downward trend in consumer inflation looks to offer some flexibility, but prices—and especially those for food—are going up much faster than the numbers issued by the Bureau of National Statistics indicate.

It would be easy to create more inflation. The renminbi has strengthened recently, but most analysts believe Beijing will end the upward movement in the next few months, in large measure to rescue ailing export factories, to make Chinese products cheaper on world markets. The inevitable result of a depreciating currency would be inflation, which would help the central government erode the value of its mounting debt.

Of course, China’s citizens, who accumulated 37.0 trillion yuan in household deposits by the end of last month, would be hurt by this tactic, but for more than three decades Beijing, by fixing deposit rates at abnormally low levels, has maintained an economic model that has punished them to help borrowers. Low deposit rates would depress consumption by keeping money out of the hands of citizens, but Chinese leaders have never been serious about building a consumer economy. In no economy today does consumption play a lower role.

And in a China where everything is political, there is one more factor to consider. Communist Party leaders are extraordinarily sensitive to inflation due to its potential to create widespread social unrest.

So, yes, there would be many disadvantages to using inflation to solve China’s debt situation, but at this moment it looks like the least bad option for Beijing’s out-of-solutions technocrats. The Economist may believe they once had lots of room to wiggle, but their choices are all unpalatable—and they are narrowing fast.

How Will China Pay Off Its Debt? - Forbes