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China Eastern set to operate C919's first commercial flight on Sunday, flying China's busiest domestic flight route from Shanghai to Beijing

1,035 sales order received for C919 as at today. At least 100 billion USD sales.

COMAC will need to work for at leat 10 years to fullfil current sales orders. They don't care about FAA approval or international orders.

New orders will keep coming in because China will need to replace at least 8,600 new commercial jets in next 20 years, with value of 1.57 trillion USD. COMAC may not even bother to sell their aircraft to foreign countries for next 20 years.

Exactly. This is what I've been saying all along.

Some less-than-clueful people stateside kept pushing an alternate reality as if C919 needed outside markets right now and the C919 program would die if they didn't get FAA approval....

Oh my! You shitty wanker, lol.


I ain't angry, just laughing and ridiculing a fetishist who gets off on self-aggrandizing nationalist fantasies. As for dominance in an already saturated field or area, it means nothing if the world population doesn't benefit from the progress percolated by the successes and achievements a nation achieves. Everyone in the world benefitted by the European industrial revolution and the American success stories. Novelty is whats lacking from the Chinese, and I would love to see something new and novel come from that nation that would benefit humanity. Same sentiments I hold for India too.

Novelty (innovation) - more importantly "commercially successful innovation" comes at a certain period in a country's developmental stage.

China has already passed that stage and I know about some of their multiple innovation items in that arena, including optics, semiconductors. supercomputing etc.

Japan passed that stage in the eighties, Korea in the 2000's.

India will not enter that stage for at least ten more years, probably more.
 
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He does not understand that when it comes to aviation, most of the world have to import everything, and by that 'everything', it literally mean everything relating to aviation. From people, to information, to materials, to education and training, to standards, to tools...everything. Even people is not native. You have to import other people to train yours, and those non-natives have to remain with you for duration until the next generation of your people entering aviation. As long as your country cannot produce a single airplane, and I do not mean assembly from instructions, you are completely reliant on foreign sources for that 'everything'.

Chinese civil aviation still has a long way to go. As it is, China do not have a true civil aviation environment. Chinese domestic airspace is still under military jurisdiction, whereas, I learned how to fly whilst in high school before entering the USAF. How many licensed PRIVATE civilian pilots are there in China?


To meet rising demand, the country will support as many as 100 airlines in the next few decades, according to Chinese media. Yet Boeing recently estimated that within 20 years, China will have a shortfall of 77,400 commercial pilots. (The country’s regional airlines are recruiting foreign pilots: Shenzhen Airlines recently advertised for a captain’s position paying an annual salary of $212,000.) The country’s 12 civilian aviation academies are operating at full capacity, and can turn out only 1,200 to 1,400 certified commercial pilots per year. Chinese airlines spend the equivalent of $162 million annually to send 80 percent of the student pilot candidates abroad: about 2,000 to the United States, the others to Europe and Australia. The big advantage of learning abroad is English language immersion. Aviation, even in China, is a business conducted in English.


General aviation [GA] is all civilian flying except scheduled passenger airline service.​
• An estimated 65% of general aviation flights are conducted for business and public services that need transportation more flexible than the airlines can offer.​
• More than 90% of the roughly 220,000 civil aircraft registered in the United States are general aviation aircraft.​
• More than 80% of the 609,000 pilots certificated in the U.S. fly GA aircraft.​

That is over 600K private pilots just in the US alone. The C919 is a commendable achievement for China, but these guys here really do not understand the scale of what Chinese civil aviation has to overcome and believes that domestic aviation alone is enough to get rich on a single platform.
you sort of know what people are made of by their response.

It is never the number of sales that matter, I mean this is the easiest parameter to see but unless your plan is you abandon any after sale service, this is going to be a headache if you make more than you can service them.

What he don't know is, just for this project along, China tried to entice a lot of engineer to endorse those training, most people don't know, you need to go to where that aircraft part is made to be able to certify with that parts before you can touch them, even as established as America, my brother still need to move to the UK for 3 months to attend course offered by RR before he can be certified by RR to oversee the maintenance process of their Trent engine.

I just found that funny for anyone, not just him, to think, this is a Chinese Aircraft, and China is the biggest market in the world, and they can screw everyone else. It didn't play this way............
 
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I just found that funny for anyone, not just him, to think, this is a Chinese Aircraft, and China is the biggest market in the world, and they can screw everyone else. It didn't play this way............
If he ignores reality, then he must be right. :lol:
 
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Proud moment for Chinese. I hope Pakistan buys some of Chinese passenger planes COMAC.
 
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you sort of know what people are made of by their response.

It is never the number of sales that matter, I mean this is the easiest parameter to see but unless your plan is you abandon any after sale service, this is going to be a headache if you make more than you can service them.

What he don't know is, just for this project along, China tried to entice a lot of engineer to endorse those training, most people don't know, you need to go to where that aircraft part is made to be able to certify with that parts before you can touch them, even as established as America, my brother still need to move to the UK for 3 months to attend course offered by RR before he can be certified by RR to oversee the maintenance process of their Trent engine.

I just found that funny for anyone, not just him, to think, this is a Chinese Aircraft, and China is the biggest market in the world, and they can screw everyone else. It didn't play this way............
WTF, can Australia now produce anything related to 'airplanes'?

If he ignores reality, then he must be right. :lol:
Hey Yankee, what stimulates your sensitive nerves?
 
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LOL! At your excuses! Desperately looking for a loophole in your own formula. Tesla doesn't even use Chinese batteries in all their cars but COMAC uses Western engines in all theirs.

As I say using your own often repeated criteria we should all just consider it a Western company.

COMAC is just a western company...just face your own "facts".

Your own pathetic Chinese logic has painted you into a corner.
Ahh I can feel the anger and acid. You know once the floodgates open, we will dominate that sector. Why do you think US wanna kill

1) Huawei
2) ZTE
3) DJi
4) ZPMC
5) TIKTOK
6) TEMU
7) Wechat
8) Nuctech
9) Hikvision
10) megvii
11) YMTC
12)BOE

And many more, because these companies are some of the best if not best on their industry. 10 years ago if I told someone, China will sell cars to Europe and US, nobody would believe me. We haven't even gone into key component makers. Bro, the time has come for us to stop subsidizing US, you know those stuff we buy from Boeing is mostly political. Airbus was a better deal and noe with C919 equipped with CJ1000A...... Imagine developing countries getting quality products at a more reasonable price.
 
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.........I don't know if this is what you do with CASC in China, but in the west, you can't do that.

You can't replace that engine if they were certified with another engine.

You will have your airworthiness certificate pulled if you replace the LEAP Engine with CJ-1000A. Then you will need to resubmit the application for C-919 for CJ-1000 Engine.
They will probably use their domestic engine versions domestically and in some international markets to build up their safety record.

Perhaps sales to Iran and Russia will allow them to build up a couple Western Asia repair locations. This two countries need a lot of planes. Iran needed 118 planes and Russia has 400 planes stranded in Russia without spares.

 
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Ahh I can feel the anger and acid. You know once the floodgates open, we will dominate that sector. Why do you think US wanna kill

1) Huawei
2) ZTE
3) DJi
4) ZPMC
5) TIKTOK
6) TEMU
7) Wechat
8) Nuctech
9) Hikvision
10) megvii
11) YMTC
12)BOE

And many more, because these companies are some of the best if not best on their industry. 10 years ago if I told someone, China will sell cars to Europe and US, nobody would believe me. We haven't even gone into key component makers. Bro, the time has come for us to stop subsidizing US, you know those stuff we buy from Boeing is mostly political. Airbus was a better deal and noe with C919 equipped with CJ1000A...... Imagine developing countries getting quality products at a more reasonable price.

Here's some more gasoline to pour on his dumpster fire,


These people must walk around blindfolded. Ignore reality and live in their dreams.....

By you? So what? Clearly you ain't gots the brains to understand what I said so what does it matter? Who TF are you to start? Can you inform the silent readers out there? Of course not. So being ignored by you is meaningless, kid.

Yeah Jethro. :cheesy:

iu


U darn right!!

I
ain't gots the brains

RIP education and the English language.... :rofl:
 
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They will probably use their domestic engine versions domestically and in some international markets to build up their safety record.

Perhaps sales to Iran and Russia will allow them to build up a couple Western Asia repair locations. This two countries need a lot of planes. Iran needed 118 planes and Russia has 400 planes stranded in Russia without spares.

This is a 2 dimensional matrix here. On one hand, you need people to buy your aircraft, which mean you need to think of how to service those aircraft once they were made, on the other you need enough sales to make maintaining those aircraft worth the facilities.

It won't be worth opening a spare parts market just for C919 and service center for some hundreds of jets.

You are talking about ten of thousand hull sales to justify anything. Otherwise you are going to lay these center empty because you only need to have a check every once in a while, depending on the life cycle of that aircraft type.

At this moment, it's cheaper to contract people from the outside to service those aircraft because you don't have that amount of order to justify one. Using western off the shelve parts solved those problem in the short run, it let you buy time to build up sales to justify a maintenance market.

On the other hand, you are talking about domestic market, which is notoriously unprofitable, you will need to squeeze every penny just to make those route make money. and it means everything counts, you can't just ignore everything from meal being serve to fuel consumption. Which make domestic aircraft market more competitive than long haul route. Which mean unless Chinese government heavily subsidise their own airline, this is probably not going to be the aircraft of choice for these airline.

On the other hand, would Chinese government also subsidise the international market? Because as big as Chinese market was, they can't really sustain the entire aviation business, There are only some 4000 domestic route in China, which mean at most you need 8000 aircraft, Even if all of them are C919, it won't carry the entire production line just by that alone, you always going to need international destination or even international market. Which mean they can't completely ignore the Western Standard.

If he ignores reality, then he must be right. :lol:
These people are very absurd..........all in a while they don't really know what is the ground reality.

Which make these kind of comment laughable.......
 
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This is a 2 dimensional matrix here. On one hand, you need people to buy your aircraft, on the other you need enough sales to make maintaining those aircraft worth the facilities.

It won't be worth opening a spare parts market just for C919 and service center for some hundreds of jets.

You are talking about ten of thousand hull sales to justify anything. Otherwise you are going to lay these center empty because you only need to have a check every once in a while, depending on the life cycle of that aircraft type.

At this moment, it's cheaper to contract people from the outside to service those aircraft because you don't have that amount of order to justify one. Using western off the shelve parts solved those problem in the short run, it let you buy time to build up sales to justify a maintenance market.

On the other hand, you are talking about domestic market, which is notoriously unprofitable, you will need to squeeze every penny just to make those route make money. and it means everything counts, you can't just ignore everything from meal being serve to fuel consumption. Which make domestic aircraft market more competitive than long haul route. Which mean unless Chinese government heavily subsidise their own airline, this is probably not going to be the aircraft of choice for these airline.

On the other hand, would Chinese government also subsidise the international market? Because as big as Chinese market was, they can't really sustain the entire aviation business, There are only some 4000 domestic route in China, which mean at most you need 8000 aircraft, Even if all of them are C919, it won't carry the entire production line just by that alone, you always going to need international destination or even international market. Which mean they can't completely ignore the Western Standard.
I’d assume some level of subsidies will be necessary to build up domestic as well as foreign sales.

Perhaps, as in most countries, defense and freighter sales may help in this regard to some extend, but I concur, China will need sales in the thousands to be really competitive.

How much below B737 and A321 prices can they go to win over customers without becoming unprofitable or at least before becoming unsustainable?

Up to 500 planes between Iran and Russia is a good starting point for potential foreign sales.

Btw, how do the Russians keep their domestic aviation industry afloat?
 
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Ahh I can feel the anger and acid. You know once the floodgates open, we will dominate that sector. Why do you think US wanna kill

1) Huawei
2) ZTE
3) DJi
4) ZPMC
5) TIKTOK
6) TEMU
7) Wechat
8) Nuctech
9) Hikvision
10) megvii
11) YMTC
12)BOE

Likely for the same reasons the Chinese Government has wanted to kill:
Google
Apple
Facebook
Microsoft Windows
Cisco
Twitter
Whatsapp
Zoom
Linkedin
IBM
Western Digital
Github
Symantec
Mozilla Firefox
Youtube
Dropbox
Pinterest
Wikipedia
Reddit
Quora
Snapchat
Vimeo

..and of course the Pakistan Defence Forum.
 
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china's prosperity has nothing to do with him, and that none of his policies have produced any positive results

he simply thrives on the positive results of polices of his predecessors.
What about the achievement of China's EV industry? Wasn't it Xi's policy to foster a new industry from zero?
 
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