China continues to produce more steel than the rest of the world, COMBINED

[AndrewJin]

The above post by @AndrewJin is spot on.
In the 1880s, London's sky was so filled with pollution that it was sometimes
difficult to see the Sun during daytime. Wood and coal burning were the heating
sources of choice then. Compare that with electricity and you get the idea?

Good day all, Tay.

No one likes pollution and pollution caused by steel industry.
But without Londoners suffering from pollution, there would be no London Tube. It's an inevitable phase of development.
One shall not enjoy blue sky before the society is well-off.
Cheers!

India almost match China economic, architectural, intellectual feats in ancient times??? Typical Indian bragging. The only thing you were good at was spiritual and religious stuff. That I concede.

We weren't on the same boat in the 80's. Nominal GDP means nothing in close-economy like China. In all other economic and social indicators, China was miles ahead. In 1967, China was already producing 2 times more steel than India. By 1980, the gap increased to 4 times. 37 vs 9.5 (million T)

View attachment 211982

Literacy rate, life expectancy, infant mortality rate, etc.
GDP for an isolated country was nonsense. People at that time used coupons instead of money.(grain coupon, meat coupon, TV coupon, etc)

We weren't on the same boat in the 80's. Nominal GDP means nothing in close-economy like China. In all other economic and social indicators, China was miles ahead. In 1967, China was already producing 2 times more steel than India. By 1980, the gap increased to 4 times. 37 vs 9.5 (million T)

To begin with, I despise what CPC did before 1978. However, experts generally neglect a pivotal fact about China's development after 1980, that was a relatively complete industry even it was very primitive. Based on that, China grows rapidly thereafter. So it's really unfair to say China and India were nearly at the same stage in 1980s, given the differences in steel production, education, sanitation and life expectancy, etc.

 

[Yizhi]

Crude Steel Production, % of world total

Crude Steel Production/monthly

Source:
World Steel Association

i still don't get why choose China as the bar. for India to 'surpass China in steel production' would mean to produce HALF of the world's steel.

anyways good luck to India.

 

[AndrewJin]

Crude Steel Production, % of world total
View attachment 212014



Crude Steel Production/monthly
View attachment 212029
Source:
World Steel Association

i still don't get why choose China as the bar. for India to 'surpass China in steel production' would mean to produce HALF of the world's steel.

anyways good luck to India.

Another mystery is when India has just started or likely to start massive steel production(the major resources of air pollution in Northern China), she is already terribly polluted. But pollution seems not a big deal for her people compared to the scenario in China where everyone is crazy about today's AQI and PM2.5 index.
Me, a AQI maniac (Moji Weather APP)
Today, Wuhan's AQI only ranks 403 out of more than 500 monitored cities in China.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I had a course in environmental protection.

There was a very curious case study.

There was a small city in India (I forget the name), which had huge problems with pollution. The problems were seriously monumental! As is often the case, local people made the local industries to be the scapegoat. They protested and forced the local authorities to shut down all industries for close to 11 months, for a thorough re-evaluation of pollution checks etc.

Turns out, the pollution didn't change. (Rather, it went up slightly)

Finally, the reason- Most of the pollution was due to coal, wood, and crop burning. People in that very small city, largely relied on coal and wood (of cheap quality) to stay warm in winters, and also to cook their food, warm water etc. They burned their crop remains after harvest. All this was the major contributor to pollution.

Often industries are only scape goats.

So, if the general living standards of the population increase, I would expect people using LNG, or electricity for such uses. So this whole pollution debate is not so simple, and not linearly correlated with industrial growth.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Thanks for reminding me that there are still some sane Chinese members on PDF who have humility and grace even as they continue to enjoy the fruits of their own labor!

But some Indian members are quite contradictory with their hypocrisy.

First, they claimed that China is nothing but a pathetic sweatshop, while India is the global calling center.

Now they suddenly all become the cheerleader for their beloved PM who wanna make India same as China's 'sweatshop'.

So do Mass and Murder

While Mao was a certified mass murder, Modi is now given the power to save or destroy the lives of millions. Here is to hope Modi does the right things.

Mao was not a mass murder, since he never put some evil genocidal plan against anyone.

Funny that the founding fathers of some nation were actually the slave owners and enacted the genocidal law against the aborigines, yet those people were never labelled as the mass murder.

 

[zeronet]

I had a course in environmental protection.

There was a very curious case study.

There was a small city in India (I forget the name), which had huge problems with pollution. The problems were seriously monumental! As is often the case, local people made the local industries to be the scapegoat. They protested and forced the local authorities to shut down all industries for close to 11 months, for a thorough re-evaluation of pollution checks etc.

Turns out, the pollution didn't change. (Rather, it went up slightly)

Finally, the reason- Most of the pollution was due to coal, wood, and crop burning. People in that very small city, largely relied on coal and wood (of cheap quality) to stay warm in winters, and also to cook their food, warm water etc. They burned their crop remains after harvest. All this was the major contributor to pollution.

Often industries are only scape goats.

So, if the general living standards of the population increase, I would expect people using LNG, or electricity for such uses. So this whole pollution debate is not so simple, and not linearly correlated with industrial growth.

China consumes half of the world's coal, produces half of the world's steel, purchases more than 25 million vehicles every year, however generates less air pollution than India....... China is just decades ahead of India in all those areas.
Indian elites will probably find that the answers to what puzzles India in future development, including improvement of bad education, broken railway system and electricity networks, air pollution control, growth from ground zero into a global R&D powerhouse, or even how to effectively copy&paste when you have zero knowledge in the area....Those cannot be found anywhere else in the world except in a book named "China Encyclopedia". That book basically teaches you how to keep advancing a huge backward country up into next levels. That's why you are so obsessed with your northern neighbor.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

China consumes half of the world's coal, produces half of the world's steel, purchases more than 25 million vehicles every year, however generates less air pollution than India....... China is just decades ahead of India in all those areas.
Indian elites will probably find that the answers to what puzzles India in future development, including improvement of bad education, broken railway system and electricity networks, air pollution control, growth from ground zero into a global R&D powerhouse, or even how to effectively copy&paste when you have zero knowledge in the area....Those cannot be found anywhere else in the world except in a book named "China Encyclopedia". That book basically teaches you how to keep advancing a huge backward country up into next levels. That's why you are so obsessed with your northern neighbor.

China's GDP was around 2.2 trillion dollars in 2003. So, we are behind China, by my calculations, by 15 years.

 

[zeronet]

China's GDP was around 2.2 trillion dollars in 2003. So, we are behind China, by my calculations, by 15 years.

u really think only 15 yrs? 3 yrs ago when China at 7 trillion level, India at 1.9 trillion, then India stuck at that level for 2 yrs. At that time you might think no more than 10 yrs gap between two countries, didn't you? You cannot just do simple linear extrapolation on the trace, more ridiculous this is China's trace, not even your own trace. Indian's steel production is at China's 30 yrs ago. Nowadays China is 5 times of India GDP size and still keeps a growth rate higher than India. So many countries stuck at middle income trap, I don't know if China can overcome it finally, but it seems to me if there is only one country who can overcome it, it will be China. I don't even want to touch the stuff like elementary education quality for general public or society/ethnic homogeneity, something India may never reach China's current level.

 

[AndrewJin]

Most of the pollution was due to coal, wood, and crop burning. People in that very small city, largely relied on coal and wood (of cheap quality) to stay warm in winters, and also to cook their food, warm water etc. They burned their crop remains after harvest. All this was the major contributor to pollution.

Pollutant sources are different in China.
Remember during Olympics and APEC in Beijing, steel and cement industry was temporally paused so were some private cars(not all). Then there came APEC-style blue.
Last December I was in Beijing
Beijing North Railway Station

Another example, today my city Wuhan's AQI in different monitor venues.
Mind that locations of AQI above 60 are all industrial regions, the best places (AQI no more than 50) are far from steel industry. 50-60 are mostly high-tech industrious parks.

So I'm quite optimistic about environment of China in the future with economic reforms and technological innovation proceeding on a large scale. And meanwhile low value-added industry(mostly high pollution) is moving abroad.
Actually Wuhan's average AQI is better than last year, being the biggest industrial centre in China, once a Top 50 most polluted major cities around the world, now only top80-100 in PM10 and not a top 100 in PM2.5 ranking. (PM2.5 much more harmful to health, PM10 like sand from sandstorm cannot be inhaled to pulmonary alveoli)

For the rest factors, like coal fuel, car emission, these are not major problems. For the first one, we are working on it and technology will cope with it.
The cleanest coal-fired power plant in the world

For the second, car emissions, solutions are stricter tail gas standard and metro systems.
Higher than Euro6 standard

Hybrid buses all around China

Wuhan Metro & Intercity HSR by 2017

 

[AndrewJin]

China consumes half of the world's coal, produces half of the world's steel, purchases more than 25 million vehicles every year, however generates less air pollution than India....... China is just decades ahead of India in all those areas.

That pollution comparison is really perplexing me. A nation before massive industrialisation is already exceedingly polluted.
What will they suffer if they nail it by becoming the first place in steel and cement production?
In fact, their pollution from industry is pretty small, as I've analysed in this thread.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Indians still use right hand for food. It would be a great change of eating habit. Make Indians like Europeans.

Robin Lawley is fat and ugly

 

[GeHAC]

India should try to surpass Hebei Province first

 

[Beidou2020]

Another gem from a clownish Indian leader.

"Mumbai to surpass Shanghai in 5 years"

No wonder India is behind China when complete fools lead India.

China's GDP was around 2.2 trillion dollars in 2003. So, we are behind China, by my calculations, by 15 years.

India will never grow at the pace of China. India is at least 30 years behind China overall.

 

[AndrewJin]

Another gem from a clownish Indian leader.

"Mumbai to surpass Shanghai in 5 years"

No wonder India is behind China when complete fools lead India.


India will never grow at the pace of China. India is at least 30 years behind China overall.

They have estimated too many numbers. Which one should be taken seriously?
First, think about surpass this random little county in Central China( below national GDP per capita)

I guess u have never heard of it, Xiuning County...I took these yesterday from Tunxi to Yixian

 

[F-22Raptor]

The United States won a challenge before the World Trade Organization over Chinese tariffs on high-tech steel that cost American exporters more than $250 million in annual losses.

U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman said Friday that the WTO had determined that China violated global trading rules when it maintained the tariffs despite a decision against them three years ago.

“When China decided to maintain its WTO-illegal duties, we did not hesitate to challenge that action,” Froman said. “The WTO report confirms we were right.

"Following our challenge, China terminated those duties just a few months ago, reopening a more than $250 million market for American workers and steel companies,” he added.

Sens. Sherrod Brown (D) and Rob Portman (R) of Ohio — home to major steel producers — welcomed the announcement.

“Strong enforcement of our trade laws lifts up Ohio companies and levels the playing field,” said Brown. “This announcement will help America's steel industry — including AK Steel and its dedicated workforce — compete in our global economy.”

“Manufacturing exports are vital to Ohio workers, and this win will provide a boost to Ohio steel producers like AK Steel,” Portman said.

“I will continue to support efforts to ensure that our workers are able to operate on a level playing field around the world.”

In 2012, the United States won a WTO dispute finding that China broke trade rules by imposing antidumping and countervailing duties on U.S. exports of grain oriented electrical steel.

Despite these findings, China continued to impose duties on steel from the United States and claimed a new rationale for the duties that it said complied with WTO rules.

WTO rules for US over China in steel dispute | TheHill