China confirms two more civilian Nuclear reactors for Pakistan.

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan should make Reactors on its own....

we will soon inshallah, the transfer of tech in this deal is KEY.

 

[bc040400065]

yes, thats true
however like it said in the article, hydro is not constant, nuclear is.
we need constant supply of energy.

If we build Basha or Daso up in north, they will be constant through out the year becasue then Tarbela will be utilised to its full capacity and control of flow will be from tarbela, that what it is now as well but problem is we don't have any upstream dam so we have to rely only on tarbela and that mean we cann't generate power during winter season. Also we can control floods during summer and save billion every years.

 

[Lightningbolt]

China is to finance and build two of its self-developed ACP1000 nuclear reactor in Karachi, Pakistan, in direct violation of its obligations to both the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group (NSG), according to a well-connected source in Beijing’s diplomatic community and a second industry source.

The two new reactors are to be known as Karachi 2 and Karachi 3 and the deal is costed at $9.6bn.The decision, so far unannounced, will undoubtedly lead to a massive backlash from the international community – particularly from the United States and from neighbouring nuclear power India – over its exporting of nuclear technology to Pakistan, where security against Islamist fundamentalists is a major concern.

China joined the NSG in 2005 and agreed not to sell Pakistan additional reactors beyond its contractual obligations at Chashma, a nuclear facility in Punjab Province built and run with Chinese support. Pakistan is not a signatory to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and has a proven nuclear weapons capability.

China had previously announced the first foreign contract for its self-developed ACP1000 reactor in April. At that point, The Times of India reported Foreign Minister Hong Lei tacitly confirming Pakistan was the destination when he said, “I want to point out that relevant cooperation between China and Pakistan does not violate relevant norms of the NSG.” China further argues that new plants are ‘grandfathered’ by previous agreements on Chashma.

But the reactors in to be built at Paradise Point, 25 miles west of Karachi and 700 miles from Chashma, will go beyond those agreements.

“It is completely illegal,” said the source. “As a member of the NSG, China should have respected the approval process. The official announcement on Karachi will come soon, and there are five nations already preparing to bring serious diplomatic consequences to China in international institutions.”

Analysts say the move is a belated response to a US-Indian civil nuclear energy deal signed in 2008. But that deal was forged with support from both the IAEA and the NSG; China has sought the approval of neither organization for its Karachi plans. The move raises wider questions about China’s long-term attitude towards American-dominated post-2WW stability.

China’s first Generation-III reactor is expected to be commissioned in 2014. Located in Sanmen, Zhejiang Province, the station will feature two AP1000 pressurized water reactors developed by US-based Westinghouse Electric Company.

EXCLUSIVE! China agrees to build new nuclear reactors in Karachi | China Outlook magazine – A monthly online magazine on China's future

We have 3rd generation nuclear reactors developed with independent IP. The one with Westinghouse is the second 3rd generation nuclear reactor called CAP1400 based on the Westinghouse AP1000. The one we are talking about ACP1000 is developed by ourselves.

China has acquired the first export contract for a self-developed advanced nuclear reactor, and more global cooperation is under way, said a senior executive of China National Nuclear Corp.

ACP1000, a third-generation nuclear reactor developed independently by CNNC, has secured its first foreign contract, the company said on Friday.

The reactor passed a review by an expert panel in Beijing on Friday, and construction will begin at the foreign site, after a domestic ACP1000 reactor work begins at the end of this year.

"We're very confident about the prospects for our technology exports, due to its higher safety level and lower costs," Lyu Huaxiang, CNNC vice-president, told China Daily on Friday.

Sun Qin, chairman of CNNC, said in March the first domestic construction site for the ACP1000 has been finalized at Fuqing in Fujian province.

He also revealed that the technology was ready for export to Asian and South American countries.

According to Lyu, a delegation of nuclear power officials from Argentina will meet CNNC bosses on Saturday for negotiations on potential cooperation.

He said Argentina might begin international bidding for its nuclear reactor within this year if its investigation of the ACP1000 goes well.

"Our domestic plant will be a reference for foreign customers," Lyu said.

The ACP1000 reactor is equipped with an extra safety mechanism in case of an accident similar to that in Japan in 2011, and has self-developed fuel technology.

Meanwhile, the contract cost will be 10 percent lower than current third-generation nuclear reactors, Lyu said.

The first ACP1000 unit to be constructed will have more than 85 percent of its equipment manufactured domestically, and the price can be reduced further if the localization rate improves in the future.

Lyu said CNNC is also looking to the European and North American markets, but exports to these regions first have to obtain approval from local authorities.

"We have submitted an application to the International Atomic Energy Association for a review of the ACP1000, which will help us get the permits to export to Europe and North America," he said.

However, he said, the process will not be easy, and the IAEA's review is unlikely be completed within a year.

The ACP1000 is not the only third-generation nuclear reactor to be developed by a Chinese company. Others include the CAP 1400 developed by the State Nuclear Power Technology Co on the basis of Westinghouse Co's AP1000.

"But the ACP1000 is the only one with entirely independent intellectual property rights, and is the only one able to be independently exported," Lyu said, explaining others' exports of similar reactors are tied to the foreign owner of the technology.

Nuke reactor gets foreign contract |Economy |chinadaily.com.cn

 

[IceCold]

9.1 billion? at a time when economy is in shackles and moreover when much much cheaper alternatives are available. Why not try to get the nation together for Kalabagh dam.
Dam can be renamed to Banazir bhutto shadheed dam and sindh will withdraw its objection.

 

[bc040400065]

From OP:

chinese are willing to provide finances for hydro projects as well, infact there are MOU's signed for both Daso and Bunji dam but no work on ground so far. Also keep in mind the cost of hydro power is less than 2 Rs per unit. And our industry need power but at a reasonable price.

yes, thats true
however like it said in the article, hydro is not constant, nuclear is.
we need constant supply of energy.

Also as far as i know. Nuclear is expensive to maintain and also its not constant, you need to close it down for maintenance every year if im not wrong.

 

[Icewolf]

To Indians -
Stop acting like little B*****s to everything Pakistan and China does.
None of your damn business. You should still be glad we arent camping in ur territory

 

[Viking 63]

Pakistan should go all out for domestic Reactor !! with 100% indiginisation !! I think right now they are at a stage where they can build thier own reactors in the range of 50-75 mw category !!

 

[Slayer786]

Well India is having assistance from USA in nuclear field. So why cant we get help from out friend? India should have a big heart and let us do our thing as we let them do theirs.
Stop moaning like a little w.imp and show some courage indians.

 

[Kompromat]

American govt is a freaking hypocrite, venting at Pakistan and China while maintaining a similar deal with India itself !

 

[kurup]

American govt is a freaking hypocrite, venting at Pakistan and China while maintaining a similar deal with India itself !

America is not selling us any reactors . We are only on talks for the same .

The deal America will be making with India will be based on the NSG guidelines while this deal between China and Pakistan will be a violation of grandfather clause of NSG .

 

[cnleio]

China to give Pakistan two more nuclear reactors, India protests

China is well on track to firm up the sale of two more nuclear

reactors to Pakistan, raising serious concern in India which has conveyed its objections at both the political and official levels in China, as well as the Nuclear Suppliers Group in the last few months.

The deal in question will constitute the first foreign sale of China's indigenous 1,100 MW nuclear reactor series called ACP 1000 which is set to be a major technological advance for Beijing.

The project, which is to be located off Karachi (KANNUP 2 and 3), is valued at about $9.6 billion. Although there has been talk of this in the past year, concern levels rose in new Delhi after reports that the China National Nuclear Corporation Ltd had signed some initial commercial contracts with Pakistani authorities.

It is reliably learnt that India raised the matter with China in the last few months at high-level official meetings and even escalated it to a political level, pointing out to the incongruity of this prospective sale with China's own international commitments as a NPT member as well as within the NSG.

Further, sources said, India has made it known to the Chinese side that any deepening of China's nuclear cooperation with Pakistan has security implications for India given that Islamabad is not committed to separate its civilian programme from the military.

Before taking it up with Beijing, sources said, New Delhi first red flagged the issue to its NSG interlocutors last year when nascent signs of such a conversation between China and Pakistan first emerged. However, it was only at this year's NSG at Prague on June 13-14 that some of the members are learnt to have raised objections to China proceeding with another project with Pakistan.

Matters did pick up pace on the Indian side in the following months as New Delhi brought it up in its official-level conversation with the US ahead of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Washington and then took it up at back-to-back meetings with China.

Even as preparations are afoot for the PM's visit to China later this month, expectations from Beijing on this issue remain minimal. The Chinese argument, sources said, continue to hover around the point that all this cooperation falls within the Sino-Pak nuclear cooperation agreement which precedes Chinese accession to the NSG.

Despite the fact that this position has been fiercely contested within the NSG, the Chinese side successfully went ahead with its commitment on building two more reactors at Chashma. To avoid being caught up in a debate with the NSG, the Chinese side circulated the notification of this sale at the International Atomic Energy Agency, surprising all member states as that has never been the convention.

The key problem with China's growing nuclear cooperation with Pakistan is that the NSG guidelines make it mandatory for supplier nations to sell nuclear fuel and technology to only those countries which have their entire programme under IAEA safeguards except for five declared nuclear weapons power. The only exception that the NSG has granted is to India under the 2008 nuclear deal.

The Non-Proliferation Treaty makes it mandatory for all its members, barring the five nuclear weapon states, to ensure their full programme is under IAEA safeguards. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and as a non-NPT country does not follow the norm of full-scope safeguards. But China has always sought to take refuge under the grandfathering clause in the NSG guidelines that provides a window to deals finalised by member states before they became part of the NSG.

 

[cnleio]

The Wall Street Journal: 中国同意向巴基斯坦出售两个大型核反应堆/China agree to export 2x nuclear reactors to Pakistan

巴基斯坦官员说，巴基斯坦将从长期盟友中国获得两个大型核反应堆，价格为91亿美元，该交易将帮助巴基斯坦生产迫切需要的电力，并增强其相对于邻邦、竞争对手印度的核能力。

 

[Lightningbolt]

American govt is a freaking hypocrite, venting at Pakistan and China while maintaining a similar deal with India itself !

The US is the most hypocritical nation on earth.

 

[sayyieth]

Dosti ManSoooye Mansooye : Now India will try to call Rescue (UnitedAssholes)

 

[Hafizzz]

Indian View on the China-Pakistan nuke deal :

How China’s nuclear commerce can be subverted
How China’s nuclear commerce can be subverted - Indian Punchline

As Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to China draws closer, one could have foretold that “sources” in the government would want to sing like Jalaladdin Rumi, my favorite 13th century Persian mystic poet, who once wrote — “I want to sing like the birds sing, not worrying about who hears or what they think.” The plain truth is that if India is upset that China is providing Pakistan two more nuclear reactors, it can only lament about it but the international community would move on.

If we lament, would China backtrack? Would Pakistan run for cover? Would the United States read the riot act? No, none of these interesting possibilities exists in real life.

On the other hand, the Sino-Pak deal will only remind the Barack Obama administration that the 2008 US-India nuclear deal was a precedent-setting dalliance that damaged the global non-proliferation architecture and complicated his bid to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

It’ll only remind the Nuclear Supply Group [NSG] that giving a waiver to India was a rotten idea, since such differentiation will be found insulting by other sovereign countries even if they don’t shout about it from rooftop — not only Pakistan but Turkey, Iran, Israel or any of the so-called threshold states like Brazil or South Africa.

In fact, all this heightened attention over the Sino-Pak deal may drive one more nail into the coffin of India’s dream about joining the NSG anytime soon.

India’s arguments against the Sino-Pak nuclear deal are somewhat funny — that the deal has “security implications” for India. Of course, there are security implications, because Pakistan may well divert the assets created in the civilian sector for its weapon programme. But then, India is also able to have a more efficient and optimal nuclear weapon programme, thanks to the 2008 nuclear deal with the US.

Suffice to say, the only substantial gain out of the 2008 nuclear deal so far has been that we are able to import uranium, which in turn enables us to divert more out of our limited resources for the nuclear weapon programme.

Alas, Indian diplomacy has tied itself in knots. India too could have told the US that Kudankulam 3 and 4 are exempt from the nuclear liability law because they are “godfathered” by an agreement that by far predates the legislation. Period. Ironically, this is exactly the argument that China advances to expand the scope of its nuclear cooperation programme with its “all-weather friend.”

No, we shouldn’t be throwing stones at Pakistan and China while sitting in the glass house that the former US president George W. Bush gave us out of entirely different considerations.

So, where lies the solution? To my mind, the answer lies in providing a level playing field for Pakistan, which indeed has a desperate need for energy of all kinds, especially nuclear energy. That is to say, the Obama administration should grant the longstanding Pakistani wish for a deal like the 2008 US-India deal.

That’d not only remove one rancour that’s in the Pakistani mind about the US’s “pro-Indian tilt” and encourage it to be more cooperative in ending the Afghan war, but also bring Pakistan’s nuclear programme under additional safeguards and force it to separate its civilian assets from the weapon programme so that its capacity to produce nuclear bombs at the present breathtaking pace is no longer sustainable.

Given the fact that the Pakistani elites are not different from ours in their mindset, they too would prefer to sup with the Americans first, given an option, which is to say Islamabad might not even get interested in the Chinese technology to this extent if it has a Westinghouse option.