China Civil Aviation Industry, Technology, Infrastructure: News & Discussions

[TaiShang]

China and Russia are teaming up to create the next generation of jumbo jet


The C929 will compete with the Boeing 787 and the Airbus A330neo.

By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Yesterday at 9:00pm
C929

This is the first official concept art of the new Sino-Russian jumbo jet, which can seat up to 280 passengers. The stretched versions can carry 350 passengers.

United Aircraft Corporation

China and Russia want to build a jumbo jet similar to those offered by Airbus and Boeing. Last month they officially launched the China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC), a group that will spend between $13 billion and $20 billion building a 280-passenger, twin-aisle, wide-body jet.

This partnership between China's COMAC (Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd.) and Russia's UAC (United Aircraft Corporation) is aiming for a first flight in 2022 or 2023, and service entry in 2025-2027, according to Aviation Week. While the Boeing/Airbus duopoly is projected to take 90 percent of the projected 9,100 jumbo jet market up to 2025; Reuters says that CRAIC aims to develop take the remaining 10 percent of market share. As a 250-300-passenger jet, the C929 will compete with the similarly sized Boeing 787 and the Airbus A330neo, both of which use advanced engines and composite fuselages for high fuel efficiency. All three jumbo jets will rely on a global supply chain to provide engines, fuel systems, avionics, electrical power systems and life support systems.

The CRAIC headquarters and factory will be located in Shanghai, while the majority of initial research and development—as well as subcomponent assemblies—will happen in Moscow and other Russian cities.

Both COMAC and UAC each own 50 percent of CRAIC, and each company can appoint four persons to the board of directors.

C929 MODEL

CRAIC, a 50/50 joint venture of COMAC and UAC, was formally launched on May 22, 2017 in Shanghai. Its inaugural product will be the C929 jumbo jet, seen here at the launch ceremony.

CRAIC

The Global Times stated that the "C929" (its final name is still up for grabs) is a 7,500-mile-range jumbo jet that can seat 280-290 passengers in a three-class configuration; a stretch version could seat 350 passengers, while the smaller variant has room for 230 passengers.

It will have a maximum takeoff weight of 220 tons for the standard variant, be powered by twin 35-ton thrust engines, and have a 361-foot wingspan. UAC will be responsible for assembling the wings, engine pylons, and housing, while COMAC will build the fuselage and tail sections.

WING AND WINGLETS

The C929 has upward-pointing winglets on its wings, to reduce drag and improve fuel efficiency. The wing itself will be made of composite material and manufactured in Russia.

WeChat

As with all other modern passenger jets, the C929 will be highly integrated into the global supply chain. Its initial turbofan engines are almost certainly going to be provided by Western engine makers like Rolls Royce, Pratt & Whitney, or General Electric.

What's more, COMAC has solicited information from Honeywell and United Technologies for cockpit avionics and other flight systems. While much of the C929's supply chain is international, CRAIC intends to bring in revenue by selling services (like maintenance and logistics) as well as upgrade packages.

COMAC SMART COCKPIT

COMAC first displayed this futuristic conceptual cockpit at a June 2016 aviation fair in Beijing. It uses voice- and touch-activated commands, and wide display screens.

COMAC

CRAIC hopes that the low operating costs of the C929, as well as financing and leasing options, will make it attractive to international buyers.

In addition to the expected rush of Chinese air lines, current buyers of Russian airliners in the former Soviet Union and the Middle East may prove to be ready C929 export customers.

The domestic implications are pretty huge, too: a C929 outfitted with completely domestic content could be developed into mission variants for airborne early warning and control, electronic warfare, nuclear command and control systems, presidential transport, and aerial refueling.

http://www.popsci.com/china-russia-develop-jumbo-jet#page-4

Strategic partnership, literally, deeper than the Marianna Trench, wider than the Siberian taigas.

 

[jhungary]

Still need domestic market support this time. Next version of C919 will be competitive.

It won't be long for China to flood the world with affordable commercial jet.

The graph is wrong.

COMAC own data show 1 Class config for C919 have 168 seating, Boeing 737-8-MAX-200 have maximum single seating of 204 (can be config to 210 on jump seats) and A320neo have a maximum single class seating of 198.

Range is wrong too. Range for COMAC is for 2 class ER version, while the Boeing 737-8-MAX can do about 4455 mile (over 7000 KM) and 3500 mile for a non-boosted A320neo

 

[Beast]

The graph is wrong.

COMAC own data show 1 Class config for C919 have 168 seating, Boeing 737-8-MAX-200 have maximum single seating of 204 (can be config to 210 on jump seats) and A320neo have a maximum single class seating of 198.

Range is wrong too. Range for COMAC is for 2 class ER version, while the Boeing 737-8-MAX can do about 4455 mile (over 7000 KM) and 3500 mile for a non-boosted A320neo

C919 Max single seat is 199 passengers. There is reason why it's called C919.

 

[jhungary]

C919 Max single seat is 199 passengers. There is reason why it's called C919.

But the graph is not comparing the C919 MAX version, otherwise they would have to compare to Boeing 737 Max-9 which have a 240 + single seat arrangement and A321neo which having 234 single seat arrangement instead of MAX8 and A320neo....

You cannot use a bigger (or the biggest) version of C919 to compare the medium version of both Boeing and Airbus.

 

[posters12345]

The graph is wrong.

COMAC own data show 1 Class config for C919 have 168 seating, Boeing 737-8-MAX-200 have maximum single seating of 204 (can be config to 210 on jump seats) and A320neo have a maximum single class seating of 198.

Range is wrong too. Range for COMAC is for 2 class ER version, while the Boeing 737-8-MAX can do about 4455 mile (over 7000 KM) and 3500 mile for a non-boosted A320neo

i just know that 737 max 8 has 4455 nautical mile as its range, because last time i checked on boeing's site, the range of 737 max 9 is about 3,515 nautical mile.
did you mean 210 of 27"? any source of this?

 

[jhungary]

i just know that 737 max 8 has 4455 nautical mile as its range, because last time i checked on boeing's site, the range of 737 max 9 is about 3,515 nautical mile.
did you mean 210 of 27"? any source of this?

Max 9 is bigger than Max-8 (actually more like a stretched version of Max-8) it have a shorter range than Max 8

And yes, 210 seats at 27 inch. This is a calculation based on Leeham estimation on RyanAir Boeing 737-Max-200, 197 seats with 30" average.

So, it is doable for Ryan Air to go 210 if they want to do 27 inch average. To add 13 more seat, you need to bump 2 more row, which take about 20 row space (each row have 3 inch spare to make up 60 inch) and the RyanAir Seating would see a total of 32 rows. So, if they uses the 27 inch slim seat, they can put 18 more seat in it. To a total of 215 seats.

Because they did it in Airbus 320 neo and successfully bump 15 seats from it.

And Sadly, RyanAir is actually considering it....

https://www.smartertravel.com/2014/05/06/the-27-inch-pitch-airline-seat-is-coming/

 

[posters12345]

Max 9 is bigger than Max-8 (actually more like a stretched version of Max-8) it have a shorter range than Max 8

And yes, 210 seats at 27 inch. This is a calculation based on Leeham estimation on RyanAir Boeing 737-Max-200, 197 seats with 30" average.

View attachment 401929
So, it is doable for Ryan Air to go 210 if they want to do 27 inch average. To add 13 more seat, you need to bump 2 more row, which take about 20 row space (each row have 3 inch spare to make up 60 inch) and the RyanAir Seating would see a total of 32 rows. So, if they uses the 27 inch slim seat, they can put 18 more seat in it. To a total of 215 seats.

Because they did it in Airbus 320 neo and successfully bump 15 seats from it.

And Sadly, RyanAir is actually considering it....

do you have any valid source of these 4455 nm?
I don't understand the process of smaller plane with same engine will plus its range about 940 nautical miles (1700 kilometres)


I believe 27" is not a good way to make capacity measurement of passenger plane even in high density, Are there any information about C919 seating map?

 

[jhungary]

do you have any valid source of these 4455 nm?
I don't understand the process of smaller plane with same engine will plus its range about 940 nautical miles (1700 kilometres)


I believe 27" is not a good way to make capacity measurement of passenger plane even in high density, Are there any information about C919 seating map?

4455 miles (4000 nmi), not nautical mile, and it was again Leeham estimate on the 737-8-ERX configuration with 2 extra tank and 150 pax configuration.

https://leehamnews.com/2015/03/12/d...owing-737-8erx-concept-in-response-to-a321lr/

The range of a plane does not just solely depends on the engine, you also need too put in engine sizes, and if the plane is smaller, then the fuel tank would also be smaller, and hence you got less range.

However, when you compare the same plane about the same dimension but one is stretched, and the other is not, then the engine output would play a more important role.

Boeing have not actually deliver any MAX-200 so at this point (Only delieved 2 Max-8 anyway), all data are estimate, but from the layout, we can see RyanAir can put its 199 seat MAX-200 to at least 203 seats. Because there are 8 Jump seats (2 per door) on the plane and EASA have a minimal requirement of 4 Flight Attendants on a flight like this size, so they can put 4 more pax on the Flight attendant jump seat if they decided to go over it.

 

[posters12345]

4455 miles (4000 nmi), not nautical mile, and it was again Leeham estimate on the 737-8-ERX configuration with 2 extra tank and 150 pax configuration.

The range of a plane does not just solely depends on the engine, you also need too put in engine sizes, and if the plane is smaller, then the fuel tank would also be smaller, and hence you got less range.

However, when you compare the same plane about the same dimension but one is stretched, and the other is not, then the engine output would play a more important role.

Boeing have not actually deliver any MAX-200 so at this point (Only delieved 2 Max-8 anyway), all data are estimate, but from the layout, we can see RyanAir can put its 199 seat MAX-200 to at least 203 seats. Because there are 8 Jump seats (2 per door) on the plane and EASA have a minimal requirement of 4 Flight Attendants on a flight like this size, so they can put 4 more pax on the Flight attendant jump seat if they decided to go over it.

My bad on nautical miles.
As for range, I believe these number as it is the nearest one with mentioned on boeing's site:
737 Max 7 3,350nm
737 Max 8 3,515nm
737 Max 9 3,515nm
737 Max 200 2,700nm

As for me it is too early to put C919 (0 delivery) into comparison with 320neo (>100 deliveries) and 737max (2 deliveries) without any detail information about real spec of C919.
Do you have any real information about the specs of C919? specially seat plan and range.

 

[jhungary]

My bad on nautical miles.
As for range, I believe these number as it is the nearest one with mentioned on boeing's site:
737 Max 7 3,350nm
737 Max 8 3,515nm
737 Max 9 3,515nm
737 Max 200 2,700nm

As for me it is too early to put C919 (0 delivery) into comparison with 320neo (>100 deliveries) and 737max (2 deliveries) without any detail information about real spec of C919.
Do you have any real information about the specs of C919? specially seat plan and range.

Well, A321LR has already been offered and Launched in 2015, so Boeing Max-LRX is not simply a concept anymore, and there are high chance Boeing will make Boeing 737MAX-LRX, and for all estimation, it would run around 4500-4600 mile.

My brother is a Boeing Engineer so I know quite a lot of Boeing stuff, not too sure about C919

 

[JSCh]

​

 

[Shotgunner51]

China Eastern Airlines Plane Makes Emergency Landing With Gaping Hole in Engine Casing
Jun 12, 2017

China Eastern flight to turn back to Sydney around an hour after takeoff.

Flight MU736, which is an Airbus A330-200 twin jet, landed back in the Australian city after the mid-air emergency on Sunday. Kathy Zhang, general manager for the Oceania region at China Eastern Airlines, told Reuters that no injuries were reported.

Passengers told Australia's Seven News that they heard a loud sound shortly after take off followed by burning smells. "All of a sudden we heard this noise... it kind of smelt like burning" a passenger told Seven News network. "I was really scared. Our group was terrified."

Images on social media showed a large hole on the engine casing that is more than 3ft long.

An Airbus spokesman told Reuters that they are trying to determine what happened with Rolls-Royce, which manufactured the plane's Trent 700 series engines. "We are aware of the incident and will be working closely with our customer and relevant partners to understand the cause of the issue" Rolls-Royce said in a statement seen by Reuters.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/12/china-eastern-airlines-plane-landing-hole-engine/

 

[DavidSling]

Israel Aerospace Industries is expanding its civilian activities and is establishing, for the first time in its history, an academy for technical aviation professions in China

IsraelDefense | 12/06/2017

Send to a friend
A+A-Size
Share on
Share on

China's C919 passenger plane (Photo: AP)

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) signed a $10 million contract with the city of Shantou in Guangdong Province last week to build a training center where Israeli teams will teach the Chinese to maintain passenger aircraft.

The contract was signed as part of a conference for business cooperation between Israel and the Guangdong Province.

The company also signed an agreement with Gwangju Port in the province to build a robot that would increase the efficiency of container storage.

"This is an important breakthrough in light of the accelerated development of China’s civil aviation," said Gadi Cohen, Vice President and Director of Civil Society at IAI.

IAI has been providing maintenance services for airlines for years, and the company intends to continue expanding its civilian operations in China, which in the coming years is expected to become the largest aviation market in the world, requiring the training of thousands of technical personnel for the growing domestic fleet.

Boeing estimated last year that in the next 20 years, the Chinese market would need about 7,000 new passenger planes, which are estimated to cost more than a trillion dollars.

http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/29943

 

[JSCh]

Orders for China's C919 jumbo jet reach 600
Source: Xinhua| 2017-06-13 15:54:31|Editor: An



SHANGHAI, June 13 (Xinhua) -- Orders for China's first homegrown large passenger jet, the C919, reached 600 aircraft on Tuesday as a new customer signed to book 30 of the jets.

The China Everbright Financial Leasing Co. Ltd. on Tuesday placed the order with the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), the Shanghai-based manufacturer of the C919.

Zhang Jinliang, president of China Everbright Bank, which has a 90-percent stake in Everbright Financial Leasing, said the bank will continue cooperation with COMAC in research and development as well as marketing.

So far, a total of 24 foreign and domestic customers, including China's national carrier Air China, have placed orders for the aircraft.

C919 completed its maiden test flight in May, making China the fourth jumbo jet producer after the United States, Western Europe and Russia.

With a standard range of 4,075 kilometers, the China-made jet is comparable to updated Airbus 320 and Boeing's new generation 737 planes, signaling the country's entry into the global aviation market.

 

[grey boy 2]

Orders for China's C919 jumbo jet reach 600
Source: Xinhua| 2017-06-13 15:54:31|Editor: An



SHANGHAI, June 13 (Xinhua) -- Orders for China's first homegrown large passenger jet, the C919, reached 600 aircraft on Tuesday as a new customer signed to book 30 of the jets.

The China Everbright Financial Leasing Co. Ltd. on Tuesday placed the order with the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), the Shanghai-based manufacturer of the C919.

Zhang Jinliang, president of China Everbright Bank, which has a 90-percent stake in Everbright Financial Leasing, said the bank will continue cooperation with COMAC in research and development as well as marketing.

So far, a total of 24 foreign and domestic customers, including China's national carrier Air China, have placed orders for the aircraft.

C919 completed its maiden test flight in May, making China the fourth jumbo jet producer after the United States, Western Europe and Russia.

With a standard range of 4,075 kilometers, the China-made jet is comparable to updated Airbus 320 and Boeing's new generation 737 planes, signaling the country's entry into the global aviation market.

View attachment 403380​