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China and India: Contest of the century

totally agreed with you, i am in the opinion of legalization of corruption. what i want to say is that Goi should charge on selective services and give a percentage of it to officesr. rather then getting under the table they can get it legally and it will increase their efficiency bcoz of the incentives and people can also questioned them.

Right, that way you attract hard-working ambitious people to civil service. Not crooks who want to be on the take. How you incentivize is very important both in business and economics.
 
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I really wonder if maybe paying official higher salaries will cut down on stealing. (that along with maybe harsher punishment for those are caught)

Higher salaries would still be cheaper than the money government loses to corruption, with the added bonus of being competitive with private industry for higher talent. (I remember Mike05 saying that in Singapore, the government adjusts minister salary to keep pace with top CEOs)

This worked well in Hong Kong as well.

Carrot and stick approach. Carrot = pay them enough to stop them stealing in the first place. Stick = severe punishment to anyone caught stealing money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong)

In the mainland the punishment for corruption is even stronger, which is definitely a good thing.
 
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This worked well in Hong Kong as well.

Carrot and stick approach. Carrot = pay them enough to stop them stealing in the first place. Stick = severe punishment to anyone caught stealing money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong)

In the mainland the punishment for corruption is even stronger, which is definitely a good thing.

Well, if elect our the opposition party as our Govt.A religious nationalist party,such severe punishments etc for corruption,rape can be enacted.

But it comes at a price,these guys will screw up our foreign relations,greater chances for harassment of minorities etc,spread false info among the population about India rising/shining etc.
 
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This worked well in Hong Kong as well.

Carrot and stick approach. Carrot = pay them enough to stop them stealing in the first place. Stick = severe punishment to anyone caught stealing money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong)

In the mainland the punishment for corruption is even stronger, which is definitely a good thing.

Actually I am a little disappointed with China's approach on corruption. The punishment is harsh enough but the enforcement is lack-hearted. There is still not enough active investigating bodies and too much of the "kill the chicken to frighten monkeys" bullshit going on.

I personally blame Jiang Zemin for letting 5 million business people into the party all at once. Talk about a marriage made in corruption heaven. It was orgy of you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
 
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Well, if elect our the opposition party as our Govt.A religious nationalist party,such severe punishments etc for corruption,rape can be enacted.

But it comes at a price,these guys will screw up our foreign relations,greater chances for harassment of minorities etc,spread false info among the population about India rising/shining etc.

Sounds like a bunch of hot-heads...
 
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What India needs to do is create their own system of government. They should not seek to emulate the west or China because these cultures are fundamentally different from each other. India needs to get rid of their colonial mentality.

The Old Man and the bag of stinking fish

Once upon a time there was an Old Man. Around his neck he carried a bag of fish. He was very proud of the fish, but the truth is that they were rather rotten and had an unpleasant smell. The old man had been carrying them around his neck for such a long time that he no longer noticed the smell; he thought they were very fine fish indeed.

Now the old man had an unfortunate habit – he would travel around the world inviting himself into other people's homes, and then try to force his fish on them whether they wanted them or not. I am sorry to say that sometimes, when he found himself in the home of people who were smaller and weaker than him, he would even beat them with his stick until they agreed to take his fish.

One day the Old Man arrived at the home of a Chinese man. Walking in the door, he put on his friendliest voice.

"Ho, young Chinaman! You are a lucky fellow today! For I have brought you a bag of very fine fish…"

And he thrust the bag of rotten fish under the nose of the Chinese man.

"Why, thank you," replied the Chinese man politely, his nose wrinkling a little at the smell. "But the truth is that I already have some fish of my own." And he directed the Old Man's attention to his own fish.

"Yes, yes," said the Old Man after a cursory glance. "But your fish are no good. Look how small and weak they are. Get rid of them now. My fish are much better – you should take them straight away!"

"It is true that my fish are not big and strong," answered the Chinese man. "But I try to take care of them and feed them well. They are already bigger and stronger than they were last week, and next week they will be bigger and stronger still. I hope that one day they will be very fine fish indeed -"

"I don't care what your fish looked like last week!" interrupted the Old Man angrily. "I'm not in the least bit interested! And I don't care what they will look like next week either. I am telling you that they are no good now! Throw them away immediately, and take my fish instead!"

By now the Chinese man was becoming a little irritated. "I don't want your fish," he said. "They have an unpleasant smell. I am happy with my own fish, and I intend to keep them."

"How dare you!" yelled the Old Man in a rage. "Who do you think you are to refuse my fish? There are no finer fish than mine. I order you to take my fish! Do as you are told - take them now!"

The Chinese man was too polite to throw the old man out of his house, so he decided simply to ignore him, and went off to take care of his fish.

And so the Old Man was left on his own in the middle of the room, shouting and screaming, with a bag of rotten stinking fish hanging round his neck.
 
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But it comes at a price,these guys will screw up our foreign relations,greater chances for harassment of minorities etc,spread false info among the population about India rising/shining etc.

Dude if by any remote chance you are referring to the BJP, there were even greater screwups in the first two you mentioned ( foreign policy,harassment of minorities) during the Congress rule.

And the India Shining was for god sake just an election campain slogan,just like the Garibi Hatao of the Congress way back.Now tell me has all the Garibi been hatao-ed.??

On Topic:

We seriously need more accountability from our Government officials and as a member said the carrot and stick policy has to be applied.
 
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Dude if by any remote chance you are referring to the BJP, there were even greater screwups in the first two you mentioned ( foreign policy,harassment of minorities) during the Congress rule.

And the India Shining was for god sake just an election campain slogan,just like the Garibi Hatao of the Congress way back.Now tell me has all the Garibi been hatao-ed.??

On Topic:

We seriously need more accountability from our Government officials and as a member said the carrot and stick policy has to be applied.

Maybe this might be the source if India's problems?


Corruption in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In July 2008 The Washington Post reported that nearly a fourth of the 540 Indian Parliament members faced criminal charges, "including human trafficking, immigration rackets, embezzlement, rape and even murder".[8] At state level, things are often worse. In Uttar Pradesh Assembly elections 2002, candidates with criminal records won the majority of seats.
 
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India must realize that dandy ideals like "free speech" and "freely elected democratic government" is all good on paper; but if the institutions are just "empty houses" then it is probably better to have a more autocratic system that delivers.

No point owning a flashy BMW if the tires are flat!
 
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Before Indians start attacking me about Pakistan, let me say that the same recipe also applies to Pakistan. Forget western ideals, just get good clean governance for at least a few decades. We can slowly evolve into a democracy.
 
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India must realize that dandy ideals like "free speech" and "freely elected democratic government" is all good on paper; but if the institutions are just "empty houses" then it is probably better to have a more autocratic system that delivers.

No point owning a flashy BMW if the tires are flat!

You cannot run India as an autocratic system because there is just too much diversity in India. That'll result in breakup of India. Democracy is the only way forward. We are not complaining either.
 
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You cannot run India as an autocratic system because there is just too much diversity in India. That'll result in breakup of India. Democracy is the only way forward. We are not complaining either.

Agreed. But only democracy has to worry about "preservation" of diversity; autocracy can force uniformity. China is more populace than India, but the government enforces Mandarin and other equalizers quite effectively.

Uniformity is good for a nation. If all of Pakistan was a single ethnic group speaking the same language it would be in a much better shape.
 
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You cannot run India as an autocratic system because there is just too much diversity in India. That'll result in breakup of India. Democracy is the only way forward. We are not complaining either.

For once I agree. Autocracy will split India and democracy is the best system for India.
 
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You cannot run India as an autocratic system because there is just too much diversity in India. That'll result in breakup of India. Democracy is the only way forward. We are not complaining either.

Russia is just as diverse as India with Russians and Hindus being both 80%

They are doing fine with an autocratic system

The USSR was even more diverse than Russia today, Russians only made up 50% of USSR.

They also used a autocratic system.
 
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The USSR was even more diverse than Russia today, Russians only made up 50% of USSR.

They also used a autocratic system.

The USSR collapsed though.

China is lucky that the vast majority of the population is Han Chinese, who write using Han characters, practice similar religious beliefs, and share a common cultural heritage.

In this situation, an autocratic government can be very effective.

I don't think it will work for India though, India is a LOT more diverse than China is.
 
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