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China and Hong Kong Hold Edward Snowden's Fate

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China and Hong Kong Hold Edward Snowden's Fate - Connor Simpson - The Atlantic Wire

What happens next with the man responsible for leaking a trove of National Security Agency documents to the Guardian rests in the hands of two countries who could decide to send him back to the U.S. with express shipping, or to keep him as a global bargaining chip.

Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old American defense contractor, revealed himself as the man responsible for the Guardian's string of NSA leaks Sunday afternoon. Booz Allen confirmed he was an employee for the last three months. But, for now, he's in a hotel in Hong Kong ordering room service and covering up every time he logs onto his computer. Snowden said he chose Hong Kong, despite his ultimate goal of seeking asylum in Iceland, because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent."

And he will, almost assuredly, face criminal charges. Saturday night, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told NBC News' Andrea Mitchell the NSA requested a criminal investigation into who leaked the information. "For me, it is literally – not figuratively – literally gut-wrenching to see this happen because of the huge, grave damage it does to our intelligence capabilities," Clapper said. This is the latest statement from the Shawn Turner, the NSA's Director of Public Affairs, per the Huffington Post's Sam Stein (emphasis ours):

We have seen the latest report from The Guardian that identifies an individual claiming to have disclosed information about highly classified intelligence programs in recent days. Because the matter has been referred to the Department of Justice, we refer you to the Department of Justice for comment on any further specifics of the unauthorized disclosure of classified information be a person with authorized access. The Intelligence Community is currently reviewing the damage that has been done by these recent disclosures.
The White House isn't commenting on Snowden as of Sunday evening. So the Justice Department is investigating and Snowden is holed up in Hong Kong, for now. If they do file criminal charges, Snowden's future and the chances he remains in Hong Kong are confusing, at best.

(Update, 8:22 p.m.: the DOJ released this statement Sunday evening: "The Department of Justice is in the initial stages of an investigation into the unauthorized disclosure of classified information by an individual with authorized access. "In order to protect the integrity of the investigation, we must decline further comment.")

Hong Kong and the U.S. have a bilateral extradition agreement. But it's slightly more complicated than that. Snowden's decision to go to Hong Kong raises some very big questions. It could be a brilliant move or, frankly, a supremely dumb one. The Iceland asylum dream is basically dead in the water already. "A small country that wants to be close friends of the United States is not going to do that," writes Talking Points Memo's Josh Marshall. "But of all the places where you might have a shot at not getting extradited, China’s not a bad choice."

The extradition treaty between Hong Kong and the U.S. has to be approved by China and Hong Kong if the U.S. decides to request he be extradited. China has sovereignty over Hong Kong, but Hong Kong was granted a massive amount of autonomy when it was relinquished from British rule. The tiny country has a strong history of press freedom and political tolerance, as outlined by the Guardian's Julian Borger:

The freedom of the Hong Kong press, meanwhile, is being continually put to the test. When the government attempted in 2003 to impose restrictions on the grounds of sedition and national security, half a million people came out to demonstrate and the bill was withdrawn.
The tradition of commemorating the 1989 killing of Tiananmen Square demonstrators – banned in the rest of China – is vigorously upheld in Hong Kong. Attendance at a memorial ceremony in the territory's Victoria Park last week was estimated at between 54,000 and 150,000, despite torrential rain.
But, ultimately, it will likely come down to how China wants this to play out. They are perhaps the only superpower who can stand up to the U.S. on political matters. And, luckily for Snowden, President Obama and President Xi Jinping didn't see eye-to-eye on cyber security issues during their summit this weekend. Snowden's little performance probably played a big part of it. Marshall thinks there's two ways China could go. One works in Snowden's favor, while the other does not:

Call me naive but I think this is going to come down to how Beijing wants to play this. If they don’t want a fight over this, Snowden’s toast. If they like the optics of it, I don’t think it matters what that extradition treaty says. China’s a big enough player and the US has enough other fish to fry with the Chinese, that the US is not going to put the bilateral relationship on the line over this guy. And the Chinese might relish granting asylum to an American running from the claws of US ‘state repression’.
For now we must wait for the Justice Department to press criminal charges against Snowden and for an extradition request to happen. Snowden could possibly leave Hong Kong for another country, one that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S., before the authorities find him. Or he could continue staying in his hotel room at the Mandarin Oriental, with the U.S. embassy just down the street, eating room service until his fate is ultimately sealed.
 
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i say give him the asylum, and if necessary, the PLA can put down the entire anglophiliac gangbazi judiciary in order to do so
 
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China should be a responsible power to guard the basic human rights and a brave fighter.

It's your time, China. Don't be a coward, hope you will not let all the world down.
 
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Justice secretary explains why White House's request for arrest of whistleblower was turned down



Hong Kong's justice minister has said the US government got the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden's middle name wrong in documents it submitted seeking his arrest.

Snowden, who hid in Hong Kong for several weeks after revealing secret US surveillance programmes, was allowed to fly to Moscow on Sunday despite a US request for his arrest. Hong Kong said at the time that the paperwork had not fully complied with its requirements.

Hong Kong's justice secretary, Rimsky Yuen, explained on Tuesday that there had been discrepancies in the documentation filed by US authorities.

He said Hong Kong immigration records listed Snowden's middle name as Joseph, but the US government used the name James in some documents.

Yuen said US authorities had also not provided his passport number.

The decision to let Snowden leave angered the White House, which said it damaged US-Chinese relations.
__________________________________


Hahaha ... the US just got bagged by China so badly. It's comedy pure.

In the background I hear this tune ...

 
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China should be a responsible power to guard the basic human rights and a brave fighter.

It's your time, China. Don't be a coward, hope you will not let all the world down.

China did turn out yellow, the Guy's in Moscow now.
 
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China did turn out yellow, the Guy's in Moscow now.

How is that? Snowden didn't want to stay in China and China can hardly force him to stay and there is no reason for China to do so, since Snowden didn't commit any crimes in China.
 
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Götterdämmerung;4456280 said:
How is that? Snowden didn't want to stay in China and China can hardly force him to stay and there is no reason for China to do so, since Snowden didn't commit any crimes in China.
What a joke...!!! :lol:

How many Chinese citizens are in prisons in trumped up charges? Snowden is a 2nd degree employee of the NSA, an intelligence agency. Are you saying China cannot make up any charges based upon that?

No. The reason why Snowden does not want to stay in China is because he is highly confident that the Chinese will turn him over to US. He is wrong on that count, but he is at least right that China does not want him. He is too volatile diplomatically. Refusing to hand him over does and will have consequences but far less than giving him shelter and protection.

China does not want to arrest Snowden because he broke no Chinese laws? :lol:
 
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In USA or Britain or any Western country, if the policeman did not put down your drivers lic # on your speeding ticket, plus spelled your name wrong, do you think it will hold up in court?
Snowden was in HKSAR of China, which has its own justice system similar to Britain, which is highly respected.
Why should HKSAR of China bent it by "making up a charge" to arrest him?
 
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Snowden did help China internet security by revealing US hacking.

He also expose US hypocrisy thus making people realize that US is a liar when accusing China.

It would make HK/China look bad in world opinion if HK/China turn him over to US.

Why should HK/China go out of their way to help US since this is US problem and he has helped China?
 
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What a joke...!!! :lol:

How many Chinese citizens are in prisons in trumped up charges? Snowden is a 2nd degree employee of the NSA, an intelligence agency. Are you saying China cannot make up any charges based upon that?

No. The reason why Snowden does not want to stay in China is because he is highly confident that the Chinese will turn him over to US. He is wrong on that count, but he is at least right that China does not want him. He is too volatile diplomatically. Refusing to hand him over does and will have consequences but far less than giving him shelter and protection.

China does not want to arrest Snowden because he broke no Chinese laws? :lol:

All you can blabber is nothing but strawman arguments, speculations of possibilities and contradicts to what Snowden said when he was first interviewed by Guardian. In other words, you have nothing but conjunctives. In Germany we have a saying that conjunctive is for loser.

Apropos loser, the US has more to worry about its "friends" and "partners" on the other side of the Atlantic. We are anything but amused about the spying and stealing of our privacy and economy. You are losing sympathy on all fronts! :lol:
 
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What a joke...!!! :lol:

How many Chinese citizens are in prisons in trumped up charges? Snowden is a 2nd degree employee of the NSA, an intelligence agency. Are you saying China cannot make up any charges based upon that?

No. The reason why Snowden does not want to stay in China is because he is highly confident that the Chinese will turn him over to US. He is wrong on that count, but he is at least right that China does not want him. He is too volatile diplomatically. Refusing to hand him over does and will have consequences but far less than giving him shelter and protection.

China does not want to arrest Snowden because he broke no Chinese laws? :lol:

Funny! Haha, since he was confident that China will turn him over, why he came to China at the very fisrt time?
 
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Funny! Haha, since he was confident that China will turn him over, why he came to China at the very fisrt time?
My mistake. I meant to say Snowden was confident that China WILL NOT turn him over, and I forgot to add that he is confident that Taiwan, The Philippines, South Korea, or Japan WILL turn him over. You have to consider where he came from: Hawaii. From there, not likely that he would fly east back towards the mainland. That left westward towards Asia with China (Hong Kong) as the best choice.
 
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Götterdämmerung;4457915 said:
All you can blabber is nothing but strawman arguments, speculations of possibilities and contradicts to what Snowden said when he was first interviewed by Guardian. In other words, you have nothing but conjunctives. In Germany we have a saying that conjunctive is for loser.
Nonsense. Am not trying to turn this into a discussion about China's human rights issues. I only use China's known behaviors to show the fallacy of your laughable argument that China cannot arrest, as in self-restrain, Snowden because he broke no Chinese law. For a country that have black prisons...

China: Secret
... how government officials, security forces, and their agents routinely abduct people off the streets of Beijing and other Chinese cities, strip them of their possessions, and imprison them. These black jails are often located in state-owned hotels, nursing homes, and psychiatric hospitals.
...To keep their own citizens in line and in fear, China is too afraid to arrest a non-citizen who is also a second degree employee of a foreign intelligence agency?

As the USAF Wild Weasels says: "You Gotta Be Sh1ttin' Me". :lol:

Götterdämmerung;4457915 said:
Apropos loser, the US has more to worry about its "friends" and "partners" on the other side of the Atlantic. We are anything but amused about the spying and stealing of our privacy and economy. You are losing sympathy on all fronts! :lol:
If you say that to anyone from California or New York, you will get tears from that person. But unfortunately for you, neither California nor New York is America. Real America in the middle of those two states cares little for European opinions of US. Yeah...You might find a few pockets of Eurotrash-wannabes in major metros like Denver or Chicago, but try to peddle your crap in Texas or Utah and you would be lucky to leave the state with only a wedgie.
 
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Now here is something interesting about Snowden...

Back in 2009, Edward Snowden ranted online against those who leak secrets to the press - NY Daily News
While working as a CIA technician stationed in Geneva, Snowden said people who leak information to the press should be “shot in the balls.”

In 2009, Ed Snowden said leakers “should be shot.” Then he became one | Ars Technica
< TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the **** are the anonymous sources telling them this?
< TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.
So now his life is beginning to be taken apart and inconsistencies emerges.
 
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Nonsense. Am not trying to turn this into a discussion about China's human rights issues. I only use China's known behaviors to show the fallacy of your laughable argument that China cannot arrest, as in self-restrain, Snowden because he broke no Chinese law. For a country that have black prisons...

China: Secret

...To keep their own citizens in line and in fear, China is too afraid to arrest a non-citizen who is also a second degree employee of a foreign intelligence agency?

As the USAF Wild Weasels says: "You Gotta Be Sh1ttin' Me". :lol:

That exactly is a strawman argument, boy.


If you say that to anyone from California or New York, you will get tears from that person. But unfortunately for you, neither California nor New York is America. Real America in the middle of those two states cares little for European opinions of US. Yeah...You might find a few pockets of Eurotrash-wannabes in major metros like Denver or Chicago, but try to peddle your crap in Texas or Utah and you would be lucky to leave the state with only a wedgie.

Why don't you tell the New Yorkers and Californians that they are not the real America? :lol:

.... .... ....

In the meantime, European consumer protection orgs are starting sue US internet platforms

France: L

EU: europe-v-facebook.org | EUROPE versus FACEBOOK

Austria: Prism: Max Schrems nimmt Facebook, Apple und Microsoft ins Visier


Yeah, kill the messenger ... avoid talking abou the topic, which is fascist surveillance that makes the Stasi look like kindergarten.
 
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