China: Abusing history?

[faithfulguy]

Well if China cannot claim is thousands of year civilization over South China sea then how come Israel is allowed to use the history as a clause to declare itself a state?

No one is denying China's claims. However, claims must be back by military capabilities and more importantly, geopolitical considerations. Would China risk these islands and jeopardize their many years of hard work and development? I do not think so. So even if China has capabilities to militarily force upon other states and I believe they are capable of without US intervention, it would not be the most politically wise thing to do. So they are seeking consensus among all the countries in SCS region. The best thing is for all these countries to jointly develop the area together.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

during the ww2,in Japan's heydays Japanese troop argubly(only cities and towns) occupied less than one third of China's territory for couples of Years,Japan was defeated and surrendered to China,China expedition troops liberated Burma.and Japanese troops occupied Vietnam surendered to Chinese Army.US offer China's dominion of Vietnam,and China refused.China was the liberator of Vietnam in the WW2.

Yep, Japan could easily devastate China with their superior military industry during WWII, but they didn't have the size to swallow China.

 

[faithfulguy]

during the ww2,in Japan's heydays Japanese troop argubly(only cities and towns) occupied less than one third of China's territory for couples of Years,Japan was defeated and surrendered to China,China expedition troops liberated Burma.and Japanese troops occupied Vietnam surendered to Chinese Army.US offer China's dominion of Vietnam,and China refused.China was the liberator of Vietnam in the WW2.

US never offered China's dominion over Vietnam. US asked China to stay in Northern Vietnam longer to hinder France from taking over. But Chiang figure this out so he refused US request.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No one is denying China's claims. However, claims must be back by military capabilities and more importantly, geopolitical considerations. Would China risk these islands and jeopardize their many years of hard work and development? I do not think so. So even if China has capabilities to militarily force upon other states and I believe they are capable of without US intervention, it would not be the most politically wise thing to do. So they are seeking consensus among all the countries in SCS region. The best thing is for all these countries to jointly develop the area together.

This is China's backyard, i think you are largely overestimating America's capability.

Just because they are your masters, it doesn't mean they are God.

 

[beijingwalker]

in the middle of the WWII (1939-1942), Japan and China fought huge battles in Central China totaling millions of troops and China was able to fight Japan to a stalemate and to keep huge amount of Japanese forces and supplies trapped in the area for years on end. This caused Japan dearly and made Japan unable to focus on the Pacific islands. This was the main reason that the Allied forces could advance in the Pacific relatively easily.

Intrusion into French Indochina

The Chinese Kuomintang also supported the Vietnamese Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang in its battle against French and Japanese imperialism.

In Guangxi Chinese military leaders were organizing Vietnamese nationalists against the Japanese. The VNQDD had been active in Guangxi and some of their members had joined the KMT army.[33] Under the umbrella of KMT activities, a broad alliance of nationalists emerged. With Ho at the forefront, the Viet Nam Doc Lap Dong Minh Hoi (Vietnamese Independence League, usually known as the Viet Minh) was formed and based in the town of Chinghsi.[33] The pro-VNQDD nationalist Ho Ngoc Lam, a KMT army officer and former disciple of Phan Boi Chau,[34] was named as the deputy of Phạm Văn Đồng, later to be Ho's Prime Minister. The front was later broadened and renamed the Viet Nam Giai Phong Dong Minh (Vietnam Liberation League).[33]

The Viet Nam Revolutionary League was a union of various Vietnamese nationalist groups, run by the pro Chinese VNQDD. Chinese KMT General Zhang Fakui created to league to further Chinese influence in Indochina, against the French and Japanese. Its stated goal was for unity with China under the Three Principles of the People, created by KMT founder Dr. Sun and opposition to Vietnamese and French Imperialists.[35][36] The Revolutionary League was controlled by Nguyen Hai Than, who was born in china and could not speak Vietnamese. General Zhang shrewdly blocked the Communists of Vietnam, and Ho Chi Minh from entering the league, as Zhang's main goal was Chinese influence in Indo China.[37] The KMT utilized these Vietnamese nationalists during World War II against Japanese forces.[33] Franklin D. Roosevelt, through General Stilwell, privately made it clear that they preferred that the French not reacquire French Indochina (modern day Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos) after the war was over. Roosevelt offered Chiang Kai-shek control of all of Indochina. It was said that Chiang Kai-shek replied: "Under no circumstances!".[38]

 

[beijingwalker]

in the middle and later stages of the war (after 1939) when the Japanese advanced to Central China, the Nationalists were very effective at fighting the Japanese. For instance, the Chinese fought the Japanese to a stalemate in Shangsha in 3 major battles (the battles of Changsha) in the span of 4 years (1939-1942). Note that this was NOT some guerilla fighting involving a company or two, but huge fighting involving army groups that totaled in close to half million troops from both sides in each one of these battles.

Further, the Chinese fought Japan on a second front in Burma and India. Nationalists sent the Chinese Expeditionary Forces to Burma/ India in 1942 and fought the Japanese in Southeastern China in 2 campaigns for 3 years 'til the end of the war. This was also large battles between army groups. China and Allied forces (mainly British colonial forces) lost badly in the 1st campaign. However, Chinese forces alone came back and defeated the Japanese thoroughly and effectively in the second campaign. The Chinese forces were able to push Japanese almost completely out of Burma in 1944/45.

wikipedia

Japanese casualties

The Japanese recorded around 1.1 to 1.9 million military casualties (which include killed, wounded and missing). The official death-toll according to the Japan Defense Ministry is 480,000 men, which some historians claim is an understatement due to the length of the war.[103][104][clarification needed] The combined Chinese forces claimed to have killed at most 1.77 million Japanese soldiers during the eight-year war.

Another source from Hilary Conroy claim that a total of 447,000 Japanese soldiers died in China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Of the 1,130,000 Imperial Japanese Army soldiers who died during World War II, 39 percent died in China.[105]

 

[Nomenclature]

Whatever. At least a claim based on history is much better than a claim based on geography. Just imagine in a court...

Me: Your honour, This car is mine because it used to be mine until I fell ill and someone else drove it away.

Some people not to be named: Your honour, This car is mine because it was parked on the street in front of my lawn.

 

[below_freezing]

In the 1 year they did so much shame to you to last for millennia.

Just a part of the cycle where we broke their backs against the ocean during the Imjin War.

On the other hand, India has never, ever defeated Britain, in its entire history. 2000 British enslaved 200 million Indians for hundreds of years.

 

[QDNDVN]

No one is denying China's claims. However, claims must be back by military capabilities and more importantly, geopolitical considerations. Would China risk these islands and jeopardize their many years of hard work and development? I do not think so. So even if China has capabilities to militarily force upon other states and I believe they are capable of without US intervention, it would not be the most politically wise thing to do. So they are seeking consensus among all the countries in SCS region. The best thing is for all these countries to jointly develop the area together.

I totally agreed with you and I don't think China Government use forces. If China does, that's a goods will for US to erase debt from China due to US investors and for their security.[Uncle Sam good at it] Will China will throwing away trillion dollars for US walk free? That's a main reason US trying to get back to SEA, and SEA got nothing to loose if China does start wars.

With Global economic right now, once China collapsed Hong Kong will declare a new country, Taiwan will take over China [Taiwan capable] Shanghai will split, Inner Mongolia will back to Mongolia and Tibet are free.

By all means I do not think China will do that, not until China reunion with Taiwan for more force and more stronger economic. Even right now, HK still not trust China Government and that's why China has 1 country 2 pollicies because of it.

 

[faithfulguy]

Just a part of the cycle where we broke their backs against the ocean during the Imjin War.

On the other hand, India has never, ever defeated Britain, in its entire history. 2000 British enslaved 200 million Indians for hundreds of years.

And India is proud of British Raj as the nation of India would never exist as a nation state without British creation. As a result, English is the dominate language that tie the various ethnic group of Indians together.

 

[QDNDVN]

This is China's backyard, i think you are largely overestimating America's capability.

Just because they are your masters, it doesn't mean they are God.

I think you are wrong, SCS is not your back pond and for your own back yard indeed. How about US claiming North and South America is belong to US? Isn't it funny?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think you are wrong, SCS is not your back pond and for your own back yard indeed. How about US claiming North and South America is belong to US? Isn't it funny?

Does US have the historical evidence that NA and SA belonged to them? Nope.

But South China Sea was our backyard for over thousand years. The historical artifacts can also prove it.

 

[Interpreter]

A long post I don't read it off...

 

[QDNDVN]

Does US have the historical evidence that NA and SA belonged to them? Nope.

But South China Sea was our backyard for over thousand years. The historical artifacts can also prove it.

US held high tech and its could make it up. If China base on the very very old ......history from China, then you have to return back to Manchu, then ... Mongol. So SEA will OK for China to claims.

If China does not want to do that, then ... its claim unaceptable and will not negotiation.

 

[faithfulguy]

I think you are wrong, SCS is not your back pond and for your own back yard indeed. How about US claiming North and South America is belong to US? Isn't it funny?

You should read up on Monroe doctrine.