Child marriage: 12-year-old girl given in wani to 85-year-old

[Ahmad]

Santro and Ahmad, where is your khush gumaani (beauty of conjecture)? How can you talk about somebody who's not here amongst us and not try to give them leeway?

Maybe those people are discerning Muslims, and the father of the bride is too poor to give his child the education etc that she desires, and another man from the society has volunteered to shoulder those responsibilities?

Hi B.P., i doubt if it has something to do with deucation, you can say it migh(might!!!) be due to financial problems, but again, this is crime agaisnt that girl.

 

[SQ8]

Santro, this was another issue which i wanted to ask you, but i thought not to bother you. But anyways, i have heard that in Bukhari Sharif it has stated the age of H.Ayesha as 9, on the other hand a shia mullah said she was well above 16, so i am totally confused with thiws.

I think she was much older.. when it came to recording history(rather than sayings).. generally there are a lot of gaps.
There are many records that support her being born before the call to Islam.. so perhaps she was even older than thought.
The marriage may have taken place when she was 15 or 16.. and she joined the prophet later..perhaps at 18 or 19.

The prophet did not allow boys under the age of 12 into the battle of Uhud.. and Bibi Ayesha accompanied Muslim troops in that Battle as a part medic. So why would the prophet break that rule??

 

[Ahmad]

I think she was much older.. when it came to recording history(rather than sayings).. generally there are a lot of gaps.
There are many records that support her being born before the call to Islam.. so perhaps she was even older than thought.
The marriage may have taken place when she was 15 or 16.. and she joined the prophet later..perhaps at 18 or 19.

The prophet did not allow boys under the age of 12 into the battle of Uhud.. and Bibi Ayesha accompanied Muslim troops in that Battle as a part medic. So why would the prophet break that rule??

then again, the question arises about Bukhari? why was a hadith quoted in this issue stating her age 9?

 

[S.M.R]

Sunnah that is sometimes misrepresented.. or with inaccuracies.
Till this time, I have yet to find a convincing proof of Bibi Ayesha's exact age at her marriage.
15-16 makes sense to me. And that too was due to the prophets closest companion's own wishes and love for the prophet.
If the Sunnah is for the love of the prophet it makes sense, but would it not have been better to marry widow then.. that is the first marriage. Most of these people use Sunnah like a cheap excuse for personal indulgence or gain.
The man should be ashamed of himself.

Even I didn't. The age of Bibi Ayesha is / was / will remain disputed and will continuously used by lunatics for their own benefits. Salay aik yehi sunnah follow karnay main sher hain

 

[monitor]

Even I didn't. The age of Bibi Ayesha is / was / will remain disputed and will continuously used by lunatics for their own benefits. Salay aik yehi sunnah follow karnay main sher hain

We all are mistaken by this actually at the time she was 18 years in other account 20 years old .
here is the explanation translated from Bangla :

he Prophet (pbuh) said about it is he here (given), who had married Ayesha at the age of 6 years. A search of the Prophet (pbuh) during the marriage, he ayasa (given), only 6 years of age, was a big historical mistake

Sahiha Bukhari, Muslim, he along with many Hadith of Ayesha (given) a reference to the age and that's it haisama (or hisama) described a cutoff bin uraoyaha hadiserai source, and it's about working as a sufficient reason for publishing the product.

The first reason is that any bisayaba Hadith the Prophet (pbuh) of al-Quran the way with sangharsika jinayapana method can not. Thus, the Al-Quran that instructs the marriageable age, a clear violation of this event. You? Answer one, this is not correct hadisata, not going right.

However, let's look at a historic time

The Prophet (pbuh) with Ayesha (given), married to the 3 rd February hijari saoyala 3-6 months, which is 6 months to 4 year.

However, he is called here (given) 614 was born in Al-Quran's 54 th section khrstabde but bukharite sahiha najila in here (given), a Music (Jariyah) old one. Note that section 54 of the 61 sent down the side of the khrstabdera. He was 10 years of age, as here, but he's 3-6 6 4 0 khrstabda was under way, not his age.
(Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

That he most describer here (given) Badar war (6, 4, ) and ohuder war (6 khrstabde 5) participation by. Note that the Prophet (pbuh), the force is less than 15 years old are not acceptable and that they were sent back. So the principles that go without saying that she was not here age 6 or 9.



(For Asma being 10 years older than Ayesha, see A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992. Ibn Kathir confirms this fact, [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933). For Asma being 100 years old, see Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933). Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani also has the same information: "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow).

The book is available from he renowned historian Abu Bakr al-tabari (given), who has four children were all born in the era pre islam. (pre islam the end of the 610 era). So here he is known (given) before the birth of 610 A D . As he was when he was married 6 / 9 years old, was not.
(Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, Vol 4, Pg 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979).

Another prominent historian Ibn haisama to know he is here (given), he Umar ibn al-khattaba (given) is well accepted in Islam. (Umar ibn al-khattaba (given) 616 khrstabde(AD) accepted in Islam). But he and Abu Bakr (given) by 610 khrstabde accepted. So here he (given), and 610 around the time he accepted Islam. The money comes first, and any religion that was born before he accepted the likelihood of khrstabdera 610 Minimum Age (6 / 7, even if it is), he was. 3-6 of 4 to 6 months of age was about 18 - and 0 are.
(Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, vol 1, Pg 227 - 234 and 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh)

Imam Ahmad ibn hambala hambali Faiths by his wife khadiyaha musanada of the (given) after the death (6 to 0 khrstabda), he, Muhammad (pbuh) 's proposal of marriage came to ২টা khaulaha the name of a person. Which he here (given) that the working time as an adult in the youth as well as a small child is not.

(Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut).

Asakalani According to Ibn al hayara he phatema (given), here (given) was the key to 5 years. The phatema (given) to the time of birth the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years of age. The Ayesha (given) to the birth of Muhammad (pbuh) after the age of 40. The time of their marriage, Ayesha (given), 6 / 9, but after the 14-15 year age.

(Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

The main contents of the above discussion, he is Muhammad (pbuh) marriage to the time that the 6 / 9 year-old child chilenana a reality show. If the Al-Quran and Hadith asamanjasyapurna no instruction is certainly not advisable to depend on the Hadith. Bukhari and Muslim that he is or why all sihaha sittahatei thakukana. The reach of this opposition should be used for all Muslims in their own conscience move.


According to the famous Scholar Ayesha (ra), when the age of 9 years of marriage, but his age was not and probably can not be less than 17 years of age when he was 19 years old. In fact, in the shelter, we assume the hypotheses of low jenei. What says more about the famous Scholar Adil salahi:

Distinguished Scholar of the Adil salahi The questions are related to one, which was published in the Arab niuje 7 March 003. He
"The question of Islam and the Prophet (sa) - The growth of the individual character of every attacking sange sange coming up again and again. But Islam or the Prophet (sa) - The character and behavior which is something I need to feel embarrassed for our forgiveness or to seek there. There the Prophet (sa) - here's the (ra) - At the time of the marriage and that his age may be discussed prasannge some evidence that there is nothing to complain ebyapare far. It is agreed that the descriptions of the most quoted hacecha, the Prophet (sa) when proposing marriage to Ayesha (ra) - the age when she married him when I was six and he was not his age. People have to accept it as established truth. But when we have described, and its We all are concerned with the experiment, when we see the pie, we can not be described by the initial niriksateo win.
What we need first to understand it, the Prophet (sa) - the time most were illiterate and very low in the Arab society, people could write or read. Estimated date for the big events where a specific calendar year would not have been used, where the estimated date of birth and death is kathato badai. For example, to me - Prophet (sa), born of the 'elephant a year. Elephant-year refers to the year yebara Mecca to Abyssinia iyemena commander of the army came to one large room and destroy the kaba. March of the troops in front of a large elephant pursued - and that is the case, and the year is known as the elephant.
Prophet (sa) - This is the age-related barnanagulo Arabia was confusing and ambiguous. For example, the general idea is, khadija (ra) - the Prophet (sa) - the time of marriage, the Prophet (sa) - the age of 5, while the khadija (ra) - the age of 40. Ibn Hisham, but he made the most reliable sirata of time that the Prophet (sa) - The age of the two different descriptions are available. A description of the khadija (ra) - The marriage with the Prophet (sa) - the age of 30, and the other is 9. The khadija (ra) age was about how much of the difference is - somewhere in that time he was 35, his age is somewhere in the 5. Prophet (sa) - The sahabidera nirbharayogyadera one of the Prophet (sa) - Pop and brother of Ibn Abbas (ra). A description can be found from, where, he said, during marriage Prophet (sa) and his wife were both bayasai 8 years. Khadija (ra) - The garbhe Prophet (sa) - The six children were born. If the wedding party from the time of the trial of his age forty, was to have no idea, but it is the most common description. In fact, it is much less than his age. The age of 8 or more than 5, it was reasonable to think that there may be a barnanai.
Khadija (ra) - A lifetime Prophet (sa), and he is not married to someone khadijara (ra) with a 5-year-spent. When the pressure he was going after his intekalera, then he or she advises a woman sahabi told, he should get married so that he is a companion to drink at home and peace at the end of the day-long pracarakaja can benefit. The woman had two people talking ballena, a virgin widow saoda other personalized recommendations. Prophet (sa) was also proposed to close ballena.
Prophet (sa) - who is married to the new proposal was for the purpose of providing a sangini and comfort. But for those who want to say that Ayesha (ra) - the age of six he was when they said it is believed that the woman sahabiti Prophet (sa) - the only six-year-old girl with a proposal of marriage, as well as company profits. The age of those accepted are described as if it is normal that you get one, what if the woman sahabiti Prophet (sa) - the company that the company has been talking about balachilena balachilena his daughter, whose age is greater than it was six years old?
Barnanagulo only reason you do not know the light of the evidence that some dalilika sbapekse should be considered. But we made Ibn isahaka sirata manual check. And Ibn isahaka hacecha composed of all sirata granthagulora sirata and accurate basis. Is there such a list, there are Muslims who accept Islamic daoyatera early years of Islam. A list of about fifty people there are Muslims by name. Two daughters, including Abu bakarera namao asama and included here. There have also been added that when he was young he was. Here's a list of the names of the number twenty. But we're not on the importance of these sequences karabana. We will work on that issue, it is accepted that this list is subject to all musalimai nabuyyatera before the fifth year. Because of that same year, the first hijarata sanghathita abisiniyaya and that many of the names listed were those who had participated in this hijarate. It is the fifth year or so ago here (ra), a small one, but it certainly was not all that large, so that his name be included in a new daoyate sthapanakaridera belief. How long can we take his age? Surely it's not just that it was his age, or 4 or 5 and I was included in the list of names kirtimanadera. So if you were to list the names of the round table was pancasajanera kacca other round as a child, were included. In fact, he was convinced that so many big changes, or the religion accepted the new religion - the most important decision of this magnitude can not be specified. As if this was a lot of small talk to important people want, even his age is not less than 10 or 8.
Now we will see how it was years after his marriage. We know he was married to Prophet (sa) and after sahabidera madinaya permanent, that is, nabuyyatera 13 or 14 th year. General mathematics can be seen when kasale Prophet (sa) - It is possible, as its name suggested, was the wife of his age 14 - can not be less than or in other words, the Prophet (sa) - The marriage of time with his age 17 - is less can not be. There is even a presumption that his age was actually more, perhaps 19.
Now, someone could question him (sa) 53 or 54 years of age, 17 or 19 years of marriage he tarunike why? This is a topic we will understand that we are a different society and other social policies that apply to the use of draft - even if the two societies are the same than. The practice of social policy to Africa, Malaysia or Japan is not applicable. We are not applicable to any deseratii another country. The principles of a man and his wife in the Arabian people of any age differences that have considered the importance of karatana. There khattaba Ibn Umar (ra) and his daughter up to be haphasara. When his daughter was here when Umar (ra) and Abu Bakr (ra) - who proposed marriage to her daughter on, where Umar (ra), one of bakarera (ra) was younger than 10 years. The age difference between husband and wife have been married less than thirty hatana. There is a nice and pleasing pair may bhabachilena Umar. Abu Bakr said that when this proposal was that he was late usamanake (ra), proposing that Umar (ra), only a few years younger than he was. But usamanera (ra) was married to a cause, the end of the Prophet (sa) - The marriage of Umar haphasara daughter. Prophet (sa), Abu bakarera difficulties or large, was kichuta. It is then up to the age difference would not take it. "
Scholar and a book written by one of the current period and, as a creator of Adil sirata salahira must be considered in the claim. However, he said that it presented a very strong yuktigulo. We have a lot of time between the introduction of a weak dharanagulo more. We hope you will help punurbinyasta Adil salahira matched our concept and turn some people off the path of imaginary grievances. Although they do not know whether they will face off. Generally, the argument is false because it does not abhiyogakarira. They wish, can argue that we only managed etukui.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Santro, this was another issue which i wanted to ask you, but i thought not to bother you. But anyways, i have heard that in Bukhari Sharif it has stated the age of H.Ayesha as 9, on the other hand a shia mullah said she was well above 16, so i am totally confused with thiws.

The accounts vary between 6 and 16. Of course Islam-haters pick only those they like. If Bukhari says n then it is n, but Bukhari also classifies the naration as well as the narrator - do you know if the tradition is mutawaatir (throuhgh many people) or aHad (through only one), through a silsila (chain) that's unbroken; is the narrator susceptible to nisyaan (forgetfulness) or in the habit of lying, is he/she x, y or z category. When we're reading Bukhari's (like the super abridged software version) we get no idea about the context of any narration/tradition. So, let's leave that to the scholars. wAllaahu a3lam.

 

[pak-marine]

wrong title , this should be instead termed as child molestation and abuse. Sick whakos in the name of culture or religion are stil conducting medevil practices.

 

[muse]

Such interesting questions, they deserve to be explored with courage, not with the sense that facts should fit our present day sensibilities.


How old was Ayesha? WHY is there suddenly controversy about her age? Is it not true that Ayesha was a child and since she was, the consummation of the marriage had to wait to wait? Was there an engagement? And how old was she then?

But why this embarrassment, why these curious "facts" - why this controversy, After all, are Hadith believable or not? If yes, then what is the controversy? When Ayesha was married to the prophet, did she play with dolls? Did she have girl friends who used to play with the dolls ?? Sounds pretty adult, doesn't it?

Instead of "feeling" embarrassed and "ashamed" - why not just come clean?

The fact of these matters is that in tribal cultures, this was and is norm - the giving and taking of rather young girls (prepubescent), was and is the norm - When it happen in the present day, we can condemn it because it does not fit our present day value system -- But what about history? Can we similarly condemn those values as well? Yes, we can HOWEVER, condemnation will not further our understanding - history is best understood in the context within which it is collected or rather recollected, the imposition of present day value system as judgements towards history, may be emotionally satisfying, but are difficult to justify because our value system was not operational then --- in the same way if we employ the value system of the past and judge the present, we may offer bile and contempt towards the present, however, we would have failed to understand the present. (and this is the problem with all religious propositions that do not account for change in the understanding or knowledge over time and space and even geography)

Some say let scholars evaluate and adjudicate "facts" - as if Islam belonged to scholars, as if reading and writing was still the monopoly of religious scholars. And yet some others offer that an "older" can shoulder the "responsibility" for the very young bride - presumably, the single but post pubescent girls needs no one to shoulder responsibility for her?? Hain ji?

Others advise curious facts, Ayesha, in their scheme is anywhere from 16 to 20 when she is married - and still played with dolls??

Anyway, the larger point is that for some societies, especially tribal or poorer sections of society, human beings are items are commodities --

 

[SQ8]

Girls aged 14 play with dolls.
Which is why that is a very bad reference to try and determine the age.

 

[muse]

Girls aged 14 play with dolls.
Which is why that is a very bad reference to try and determine the age.

Are you saying hadith are suspect for these explorations? 14 year old tribals play with dolls? Why just a one off? earlier she was made 17 or 18 , now 14 - Should we press the point more vigorously? perhaps something else will shake loose ?

That's why we have said, that it it's best to come clean because to judge history with the values of the present, is poor methodology, we will have failed to understand the context through which history is "recollected" -- after all history is those facts we choose to recall - right??

 

[SQ8]

Are you saying hadith are suspect for these explorations? 14 year old tribals play with dolls? Why just a one off? earlier she was made 17 or 18 , now 14 - Should we press the point more vigorously? perhaps something else will shake loose ?

That's why we have said, that it it's best to come clean because to judge history with the values of the present, is poor methodology, we will have failed to understand the context through which history is "recollected" -- after all history is those facts we choose to recall - right??

Correct.. what was applicable then..and in that society may not be applicable today. The concept of working women was very rare. The concept of women scholars was rare..
However.. in the study of hadiath.. one must take caution. even those declared Sahih must be researched..
There is an accompanying collection of records of every hadiath's "health" and that of its narrator.
Point being, one cannot stick to what has been dictated by clergy.. More and more research is required, however.... the research must be from relevant sources.. and not off a wholly unqualified or unrelated material.

In the end, by today's standards.. and by my understanding.. which translates to me alone.. I condemn this act, and find no justification for it except greed.

 

[Seaman]

Wani is legal in pakistan?

human suffers lot in the name of religion

 

[muse]

Correct.. what was applicable then..and in that society may not be applicable today. The concept of working women was very rare. The concept of women scholars was rare..
However.. in the study of hadiath.. one must take caution. even those declared Sahih must be researched..
There is an accompanying collection of records of every hadiath's "health" and that of its narrator.
Point being, one cannot stick to what has been dictated by clergy.. More and more research is required, however.... the research must be from relevant sources.. and not off a wholly unqualified or unrelated material.

In the end, by today's standards.. and by my understanding.. which translates to me alone.. I condemn this act, and find no justification for it except greed.

Excellent - you get it - always come clean and pay attention to that bolded part, it applies to all of so called religious propositions

 

[SQ8]

Excellent - you get it - always come clean and pay attention to that bolded part, it applies to all of so called religious propositions

Thank you.
if I may add something..

What was abiding then regardless of society .. is also abiding now.

 

[muse]

Thank you.
if I may add something..

What was abiding then regardless of society .. is also abiding now.

Then you don't get it - child brides were abiding then - they are not today --