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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

So theses first LRIP birds (aka Batch 00 if I'm not mistaken ?) are comparable to the Batch 01 J-11B, that also got the AL-31F as an interim and from Batch 02 they were powered by the WS-10A ? Or was it indeed the WS-10A that powers the J-11B?? I'm still a bit confused.

Deino




Sorry to nit-pick: The J-20 is indeed now using domestic engines since September 2017 !

The J-20A will follow the pattern of the J-11B, and it is pretty sure that the WS-10 used by the J-11B is 3rd gen.

PUPU got the information from yankeesama.

yankeesama:
没什么矢量,就是太行b13.5吨
至少比99m1稳定
pupu:
哦!原来如此。

So, it can not be WS-15. Also the impulsion is lower than 140 KN.

It is the 14000 kg 4th gen WS-10B, so about 137-138KN.
 
The J-20A will follow the pattern of the J-11B, and it is pretty sure that the WS-10 used by the J-11B is 3rd gen.



It is the 14000 kg 4th gen WS-10B, so about 137-138KN.
Pupu said it was slightly below 140 kN so 137 to 139 seems feasible (he suggests 138). I don't think the PLAAF would settle for anything lower ...
 
Last edited:
It is the 14000 kg 4th gen WS-10B, so about 137-138KN.

One should not only care about the trust. There are so may aspects necessary to make a good engine.

I don't actually care about 13200kg or 14000kg. Either of them is acceptable and more importantly replacable.

What I really focus is the stability, lifetime, FADEC, and so on for the WS-10B in J-20.
 
WHY does Russia suddenly agree to offer its F117S advanced engine to China?
05 September 2017
http://www.anannews.com/military/2017/09/05/65664.html

"China's Air Force has already been away for a rainy day, start developed for production of the domestic engine replacement for J-20, and installed the "Taihang" modified engine for test inspection.

However, upon this latest development, suddenly Russia agreed to export to China 400 F117S engines...
and the Russian suddenly made a move surprising everyone, take the initiative to solve for China in the field of engine block, and wanna sell a large number of advanced engine to China."


Seems this site carries the machine-translated articles from Chinese language to English thus its readability is low.
 
WHY does Russia suddenly agree to offer its F117S advanced engine to China?
05 September 2017
http://www.anannews.com/military/2017/09/05/65664.html

"China's Air Force has already been away for a rainy day, start developed for production of the domestic engine replacement for J-20, and installed the "Taihang" modified engine for test inspection.

However, upon this latest development, suddenly Russia agreed to export to China 400 F117S engines...
and the Russian suddenly made a move surprising everyone, take the initiative to solve for China in the field of engine block, and wanna sell a large number of advanced engine to China."


Seems this site carries the machine-translated articles from Chinese language to English thus its readability is low.


A typical Russian propaganda BS-report.
 
via SDF:

@Deino There is a serial number!

QKhkHGO.jpg



That would make sense as a new version like 101x were the J-10/J-10A, 102x were the J-10S/AS, 103x were the J-10B and 105x the J-10C.

So can we expect this to be the J-20B??

Deino
 
WHY does Russia suddenly agree to offer its F117S advanced engine to China?
05 September 2017
http://www.anannews.com/military/2017/09/05/65664.html

"China's Air Force has already been away for a rainy day, start developed for production of the domestic engine replacement for J-20, and installed the "Taihang" modified engine for test inspection.

However, upon this latest development, suddenly Russia agreed to export to China 400 F117S engines...
and the Russian suddenly made a move surprising everyone, take the initiative to solve for China in the field of engine block, and wanna sell a large number of advanced engine to China."


Seems this site carries the machine-translated articles from Chinese language to English thus its readability is low.

Even if true, China should only consider 117 and above at this point.
 
Even if true, China should only consider 117 and above at this point.
For those who aren't familiar with these Russian engines:

117S vs 117

117S
Intended to power the Su-35BM, the izdeliye 117S (AL-41F1S) is an upgrade of the AL-31F that uses technology from the AL-41F. The engine produces 142 kN of thrust in afterburner and 86.3 kN dry. It features a fan 3% larger in diameter (932 millimetres versus 905 millimetres), advanced high- and low-pressure turbines, an all-new digital control system, and provisions for thrust-vectoring nozzles similar to the AL-31FP. This engine will have an assigned life of 4,000 hours and an MTBO of 1,000 hours. The first flight of this engine was completed in an Su-35BM on 20 February 2008. On 9 August 2010, Ufa-based company UMPO started supplying 117S engines (AL-41F1S) intended for Su-35S fighters.

117
Related to the 117S is the izdeliye 117 (AL-41F1), a highly improved AL-31F derivative designed for the Sukhoi Su-57 fighter. The engine features an increased diameter fan, new high and low pressure turbines, and a digital control system (FADEC). According to Sukhoi director Mikhail Pogosyan, the 117 is a new fifth generation engine built specifically for the Su-57. Though the specifics of the 117 engine remain classified, the engine's thrust was increased by 24.5 kN over the AL-31 while the engine weight was reduced by 150 kg. The new engine produces 147 kN of thrust in afterburner and has a dry weight of 1,420 kg and thrust-to-weight ratio of 10.5:1. Like the AL-31F, the 117 has 4 low-pressure compressor (fan) and 9 high-pressure compressor stages.
Mikhail Pogosyan further mentioned that the 117 engine meets the Russian Air Force requirements and will be installed in production Su-57 fighter which will be supplied to the Russian Air Force and prospective foreign clients.

The 117 is an interim engine meant for prototype and initial production batches of the T-50. The definitive second stage for the aircraft is designated izdeliye 30 and will eventually replace the 117 after 2020. The new engine has increased thrust and fuel efficiency as well as improved reliability and lower costs. Bench testing of the new engine will start in 2014 according to the general designer-director of the NPO Saturn Eugeny Marchuk. Produced in Ufa.

AL-41F1S (117S) Advanced derivative for the Su-35 Builder: UMPO, 2010, Thrust: 142 kN, Su-35
AL-41F1 (117) Adv. derivative for the Sukhoi Su-57 UMPO, 2010, Thrust: 147 kN, Su-57 prototype
 
WHY does Russia suddenly agree to offer its F117S advanced engine to China?
05 September 2017
http://www.anannews.com/military/2017/09/05/65664.html

"China's Air Force has already been away for a rainy day, start developed for production of the domestic engine replacement for J-20, and installed the "Taihang" modified engine for test inspection.

However, upon this latest development, suddenly Russia agreed to export to China 400 F117S engines...
and the Russian suddenly made a move surprising everyone, take the initiative to solve for China in the field of engine block, and wanna sell a large number of advanced engine to China."


Seems this site carries the machine-translated articles from Chinese language to English thus its readability is low.
As Trump says : "Fake News"

Even if true, China should only consider 117 and above at this point.
No way Russia is going to sell engines as a stand-alone product. Besides, with the WS-10X, the only benefit it would offer is the 3D thrust vectoring (which I'm not sure the Chinese are even interested at this point).
 
via SDF:



That would make sense as a new version like 101x were the J-10/J-10A, 102x were the J-10S/AS, 103x were the J-10B and 105x the J-10C.

So can we expect this to be the J-20B??

Deino
No, it's just the J-20 A2 with WS-10B that we are discussing recently.

I mean, it is not a different one with J-20 A2. I am not claiming that the type will not be some "B", we had been wrong for 002.

Maybe we can also see some improvement for others beside the engine.
 
CCTV-4 (although not very credible) does mention the WS-10X, saying that one variant is over 14 tonnes @ 20:00
 

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