Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Cell_DbZ]

After the parade the new structure is J-20 + J16/Su35 My guess is Su35 is not used as a air superiority fighter by PLAAF

I thought China bought the su-35s as a stopgap air superiority fighter before the j-20 would come out, I suppose after China has the j-20 in active service, the su-35s will be used like the j-11/16.

 

[kurutoga]

I thought China bought the su-35s as a stopgap air superiority fighter before the j-20 would come out, I suppose after China has the j-20 in active service, the su-35s will be use like the j-11/16.

Yes. Another popular assumption is the engine. The parade and the subsequent interview showed J-20 is quickly maturing; based on that I think Su35 may not be a big factor. Again I have no internal info just pure speculation.

 

[帅的一匹]

China is nowhere near Russia in the field of radar and EW.

this is why China is buying Su-35 and S-400. let me guess China is buying S-400 to test against HQ-9, lol

China will buy S-500 in the next 10 years as well.

The purchase of Su-35 is a purely political one and that is to keep Shenyang Aircraft Corporation alive by having something to do. Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is politically connected to the Founding Elders of the Communist Party of China, too bad they are not as good as Chengdu Aircraft Corporation on merits of ability alone.
J-20 > F-22 > PAK-FA > J-31 > F-35 > Su-35 > Rest of 4th Gen

I think It's like this:
J20>= F22>F35, PAKFA is not a complete stealthy fighter in my eyes.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

are you implying AL-31 is equal to F-119??

The J-20 engine is not related to any AL-31 family member at all.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The purchase of Su-35 is a purely political one and that is to keep Shenyang Aircraft Corporation alive by having something to do. Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is politically connected to the Founding Elders of the Communist Party of China, too bad they are not as good as Chengdu Aircraft Corporation on merits of ability alone.
J-20 > F-22 > PAK-FA > J-31 > F-35 > Su-35 > Rest of 4th Gen

There are two most probable reasons; maybe Shenyang needs to become a Chinese Sukhoi clone, or maybe Russia is demanding China to buy more manufacturing goods to make a trade balance, not just the oil and gas.

 

[lmjiao]

China is nowhere near Russia in the field of radar and EW.

this is why China is buying Su-35 and S-400. let me guess China is buying S-400 to test against HQ-9, lol

China will buy S-500 in the next 10 years as well.

You are US citizen. There is no need to convince you.

I really hope that your Generals have the same judgement as yours.

So, please tell every one in US how bad Chinese radar/fighter is. This will help us a lot.

I thought China bought the su-35s as a stopgap air superiority fighter before the j-20 would come out, I suppose after China has the j-20 in active service, the su-35s will be used like the j-11/16.

Yes. PLAAF need J-20 as well as flankers. PLAAF is not only buying J-20, but also producing J-11/16, even though the flankers got 0:10 against J-20 in excercises.

Yes. Another popular assumption is the engine. The parade and the subsequent interview showed J-20 is quickly maturing; based on that I think Su35 may not be a big factor. Again I have no internal info just pure speculation.

It is still a mistery. What we got right now from state TV channels is home made engin, and people even doubt that.

There are two most probable reasons; maybe Shenyang needs to become a Chinese Sukhoi clone, or maybe Russia is demanding China to buy more manufacturing goods to make a trade balance, not just the oil and gas.

I think the reason is simple, we need Su-35. Only J-20 is not enough, we also need low cost 4-th generation fighters(Russian standard), and Su-35 is the best choice.

Here, low cost does not mean that Su-35 is cheep. It is just that China has too much US dollars and have no where to spend. By paying those US dollars to Russia, this acturally help solve the economic problem for China. Also, our Russian allais need dollars hungarily.

 

[Asoka]

You are US citizen. There is no need to convince you.

I really hope that your Generals have the same judgement as yours.

So, please tell every one in US how bad Chinese radar/fighter is. This will help us a lot.



Yes. PLAAF need J-20 as well as flankers. PLAAF is not only buying J-20, but also producing J-11/16, even though the flankers got 0:10 against J-20 in excercises.


It is still a mistery. What we got right now from state TV channels is home made engin, and people even doubt that.


I think the reason is simple, we need Su-35. Only J-20 is not enough, we also need low cost 4-th generation fighters(Russian standard), and Su-35 is the best choice.

Here, low cost does not mean that Su-35 is cheep. It is just that China has too much US dollars and have no where to spend. By paying those US dollars to Russia, this acturally help solve the economic problem for China. Also, our Russian allais need dollars hungarily.

The negotiation for Su-35 started years ago, probably before 2010, before J-20 was flown, so there was anxiety whether China could hold the F-22 back with just the Su-27, Su-30 and J-10s.

But as J-20 matured rapidly, there was much less need for it. But the Russians still wants to sell it, and bundled other arms sales with condition that China must buy Su-35, and in huge quantity. It is not China don't have the cash, but the Russians needed the money and the publicity and credibility it goes with a successful sales to China.

Remember, whatever China buys from the Russia or have, the Indians like to follow up with their own orders. For example, Su-27, Su-30, Kilo Submarines, Aircraft carrier, S-300, and S-400 missiles. . .

 

[cirr]

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think the reason is simple, we need Su-35. Only J-20 is not enough, we also need low cost 4-th generation fighters(Russian standard), and Su-35 is the best choice.

Here, low cost does not mean that Su-35 is cheep. It is just that China has too much US dollars and have no where to spend. By paying those US dollars to Russia, this acturally help solve the economic problem for China. Also, our Russian allais need dollars hungarily.

I was joking, I do respect the SAC as much as I did for the CAC.

Without the SAC, there would be no engine for the J-20.

 

[gambit]

So, please tell every one in US how bad Chinese radar/fighter is. This will help us a lot.

We have been -- for yrs -- telling this forum how badass US fighters are. And I have explained the basics of radar theories, operations, and debunked ALL Chinese physics defying claims about the J-20. Stay within the boundaries of the laws of nature, and you will be fine with me.

 

[帅的一匹]

The negotiation for Su-35 started years ago, probably before 2010, before J-20 was flown, so there was anxiety whether China could hold the F-22 back with just the Su-27, Su-30 and J-10s.

But as J-20 matured rapidly, there was much less need for it. But the Russians still wants to sell it, and bundled other arms sales with condition that China must buy Su-35, and in huge quantity. It is not China don't have the cash, but the Russians needed the money and the publicity and credibility it goes with a successful sales to China.

Remember, whatever China buys from the Russia or have, the Indians like to follow up with their own orders. For example, Su-27, Su-30, Kilo Submarines, S-300, and S-400 missiles. . .

Su35 is a back up plan for J20 from the first begning. As the J20 development went more and more smoothly in the past years, China was becoming tougher and tougher in the negotiation with Russia in Su35 deal. It's very obvious!

No more Su35 from Russia unless there is a imminent war with USA.

One more thing, China had some interets in Su35's TVC engine.

 

[gambit]

If the PAK FA is going to blow out the J-20 out of water, then it is also going to blow the F-22 out of water.

Yeah...When the F-22 is retired.

Because the inlet of the current J-20 engine can withstand a temperature around 1600-1700 degree celsius according to the Chinese official media, while the F119 is 1647 degree celsius. So the F119 has no advantage at all. If the PAK FA can overwhelm the J-20, then it can also overwhelm the F-22.

You who cannot understand the technical differences between a turbofan and a turbojet is now lecturing US about turbine inlet temperature ?

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/ww2/projects/jet-airplanes/how.html

The desire to produce a high engine efficiency demands a high turbine inlet temperature, but this causes problems as the turbine blades would be required to perform and survive long operating periods at temperatures above their melting point. These blades, while glowing red-hot, must be strong enough to carry the centrifugal loads due to rotation at high speed.

The ability of a jet engine to withstand a high TIT is a contributing factor to the overall estimation of the efficiency of the engine and how it performs in the aircraft. The F119 was designed then optimized for the F-22. The aircraft's performance do not require the engine to withstand any higher TIT. If the engine is scheduled for another aircraft with different performance parameters, PW will make the next iteration of the F119 to withstand that required higher TIT.

Do you understand ? But never mind that, it was a rhetorical question anyway. We know you do not understand. You have neither the military experience nor technical education to grasp the meaning of the word 'optimization'.

Right now, all available public information have China struggling with Materials Science to create a COMPONENT of a jet engine that would be the equal of the F119. Without this achievement, the J-20 will most likely not be the equal of the F-35, let alone challenge the F-22. You took a general spec and made an absurd extrapolation. This is why no American on this forum -- least of all me -- take you seriously when it comes to technical issues.

 

[Asoka]

View attachment 415156

Wow, awesome looking picture. What a beast! it sure looks a like a world beater.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The turbine inlet of the F119 = 1647 degrees Celsius

http://errymath.blogspot.com/2017/07/development-status-of-five-generation.html#.WX6vB-TXvIU

The turbine inlet of the J-20 engine = 1600 to 1700 degrees Celsius

Just look at the 3:20

 

[gambit]

As Ph.D in physics, I respect the law of nature.

I don't agree with all the Chinese posts here. But I found the US voices here more rediculous.

How ? In what ways ?

If I say 'The J-20 is a piece of junk', how is that defying the laws of physics ?

You have no route to all the public information, especially regarding Chinese turbofans. I am sorry they are not in English.

Then you should have no problems translating for the forum. What are you afraid of ?