Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ChineseTiger1986]

The J-20B is going to be 5++.

 

[Beast]

Good to know J20 can make super cruise, so it's a 5S fighter jet.

There are some slayer who believe PLAAF are sub standard. Who will accept non criteria product for the sake of inducting them faster. Chinese seldom boast. Chief designer and Commander words are golden words. What they speaks represent what you(public) will see in near future. Some brag about being an expert in Chinese military still cant grasped this basic facts and only humiliate himself in front of real Chinese military expert.

 

[Asoka]

The leader of the J-20 squadron said "The maneuverability of our J-20 fighter is especially good. At subsonic speed, its very good already, but once it entered supersonic speed, the world belongs to him."

Imagine a pilot flying Su-27 or Su-30 with AL-31F engines making a bold claim that his plane has excellent supersonic maneuverability.

 

[帅的一匹]

J20 has both Canopy jettison ejection and through canopy ejection, Chief designer Yang Wei call it as double insurance. Wow!!!!!

There are some slayer who believe PLAAF are sub standard. Who will accept non criteria product for the sake of inducting them faster. Chinese seldom boast. Chief designer and Commander words are golden words. What they speaks represent what you(public) will see in near future. Some brag about being an expert in Chinese military still cant grasped this basic facts and only humiliate himself in front of real Chinese military expert.

On par with USA when it comes to 5th gen fighter.

 

[Beast]

View attachment 414969 View attachment 414968 View attachment 414966

Asok, looks like your WS-15 theory is getting more and more credible.

How can AL-31 engine give J-20 supercruise? Maybe some will claim J-20 pilot know nothing. He knows more than J-20 pilot.

 

[帅的一匹]

@Deino will it be a carry-on date today?

Asok, looks like your WS-15 theory is getting more and more credible.

How can AL-31 engine give J-20 supercruise? Maybe some will claim J-20 pilot know nothing. He knows more than J-20 pilot.

Highly likely WS15 is already in service

 

[Asoka]

Asok, looks like your WS-15 theory is getting more and more credible.

How can AL-31 engine give J-20 supercruise? Maybe some will claim J-20 pilot know nothing. He knows more than J-20 pilot.

It's obvious that the Commander of PLAAF knows what's he was doing. When he said China wants a fifth generation fighter with 4S capabilities to match and beat F-22, he meant it.

 

[帅的一匹]

It's obvious that the Commander of PLAAF knows what's he was doing. When he said we want a fifth generation fighter with 4S to match and beat F-22, he meant it.

We are not Indians

 

[Asoka]

We are not Indians

The PLAAF Commander also predicted, in 2009, that J-20 will be flying shortly, and will enter service by 2017-2019.

I don't think even his mother would have believed him, if there was no steady release pictures and videos of the test flights, during the last 6-7 years.

Robert Gates predicted that China would not have a 5th generation fighter before 2020. He was off by a full decade. Thank you Mr. Gates for cancelling F-22 based on your ridiculous intel.

The J-20B is going to be 5++.

It's supercomputer and avionics are vastly superior to F-22, which are using Intel 486 chips, and don't even has an IRST, and Helmet mounted targeting system. I don't think anyone, who is under 30, has even seen a 486 PC computer.

There are some slayer who believe PLAAF are sub standard. Who will accept non criteria product for the sake of inducting them faster. Chinese seldom boast. Chief designer and Commander words are golden words. What they speaks represent what you(public) will see in near future. Some brag about being an expert in Chinese military still cant grasped this basic facts and only humiliate himself in front of real Chinese military expert.

"Chinese seldom boast."

That's right, we are not indians.

"Some brag about being an expert in Chinese military still cant grasped this basic facts and only humiliate himself in front of real Chinese military expert."

He can't even read a single word of Chinese, and can't even grasp the basic aeronautical concepts of Thrust to Weight Ratio, and what it takes to perform a sustained vertical climb.

 

[cirr]

View attachment 414969 View attachment 414968 View attachment 414966

The leader of the J-20 squadron said "The maneuverability of our J-20 fighter is especially good. At subsonic speed, its very good already, but once it entered supersonic speed, the world belongs to him."

Imagine a pilot flying Su-27 or Su-30 with AL-31F engines making a bold claim like that.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av12744208/

 

[Han Patriot]

@Deino will it be a carry-on date today?


Highly likely WS15 is already in service

Yah Deino, how do you explain supercruise? I don't think AL-31 can supercruise right? Russians are still trying to get supercruise on AL-41.

 

[terranMarine]

EXCELLENT NEWS, directly from the mouth of the pilot

 

[Blitzo]

According to the pilot of J-20, the maneuverable of it is very good. In sub sonic is great but the pilot is extremely please with its super cruise. This confirm J-20 currently has super cruise ability. It is also in line with the interview in 2009 of deputy commander of PLAAF who mention in order for China 4th(western 5th) to enter service. It must fulfil all 5S.

Not as some who mention, J-20 are currently fitted with Ruskie AL-31 interim engine and waiting for WS-15 to fit to achieve the 5S. The criteria of China stealth fighter to enter service has repeated mention but some slayer keep insisting their own version.

Remember this few things I mention are not made up but reported by pilot of J-20 and Deputy commander of PLAAF. If somebody claim they know more than the pilot of J-20 , chief designer or deputy commander of PLAAF.
They are definitely a troll.

Those who can understand Chinese, can know from the video link I share. Those who dont know Chinese, better shut up and stop thinking they can interpret better than me or those who speak Chinese.

I usually don't come onto PDF because I usually spend my time at SDF and CDF, however I think your interpretation of the pilot's words are a bit too confident.

The pilot does indeed say that subsonic maneuverability is good, and supersonic maneuverability is excellent.

However, the pilot never mentions anything about supercruise, only that the aircraft's supersonic maneuverability is very good. Whether it achieves that supersonic speed through dry thrust (supercruise) or wet thrust/afterburner is unknown.


I personally think it is reasonable to interpret the pilot's words to mean the J-20 as it currently is may be able to supercruise, but the pilot's words definitely do not mean we can confidently proclaim J-20 is able to supercruise. It merely means we are able to speculate as to whether it can.



As to how J-20 can currently supercruise, I think it is even more incorrect to assume that it means J-20 is currently using WS-15. Deino has been complaining over on SDF before about how overzealous many people here are about WS-15, and frankly he's right.

If J-20 can supercruise, there are many explanations for it, beyond the unlikely prospect of WS-15 already being ready. For example, if J-20 can supercruise, first of all, at what speed? F-22 is said to be able to supercruise at mach 1.7-1.8. For J-20, if the pilot's words does mean J-20 can supercruise, does it mean J-20 can also supercruise at mach 1.7-1.8?

For all we know J-20 may only be able to supercruise at mach 1.0 or mach 1.1! Given that rather important qualification, if we are assuming J-20 can currently supercruise, and considering that WS-15 definitely are not on production J-20s (or even being tested on a J-20 to our knowledge), a logical conclusion is that J-20s may be able to supercruise using the uprated Al-31 variants that J-20 has been rumoured to use, like Al-31F-M2 which has a wet thrust of 145 kN. Compare that to F-22's F119 engine at 156 kN wet thrust, and consider that J-20 is a stealth fighter with internal weapon bays and more importantly J-20 fields a much more elongated delta airframe compared to F-22, and it becomes very plausible that J-20 may be able to supercruise at in the low Mach 1 regime using Al-31F-M2s as its powerplant.

Also consider that PAK FA using 117 (with a similar wet thrust of 147 kN) has also been claimed to be able to supercruise given Su-35 is able to supercruise using those same engines, and the idea that J-20 may be able to achieve supercruise using uprated Al-31F-M2 variant is quite plausible.


So, to conclude, there are two overarching speculative points we can derive:

1: the pilot's words in the videos do not confirm J-20 is able to supercruise, however his words do leave the possibility that J-20 may achieve supersonic speeds routinely, and this may be via supercruise.
2: if J-20 is able to supercruise, it is likely only in the low Mach 1 domain, because J-20 is not using WS-15 engines, however it may be able to supercruise in that domain using the uprated Al-31F-M2 engines that production aircraft are most likely using.

 

[Beast]

EXCELLENT NEWS, directly from the mouth of the pilot

No, Chinese pilot are bragger and liar. You cannot take their words seriously. If western pilot speaks or western chief designer speaks, they are the golden standard and cannot be doubt. If they say earth is cube, it must be cube. Ask Deino

I usually don't come onto PDF because I usually spend my time at SDF and CDF, however I think your interpretation of the pilot's words are a bit too confident.

The pilot does indeed say that subsonic maneuverability is good, and supersonic maneuverability is excellent.

However, the pilot never mentions anything about supercruise, only that the aircraft's supersonic maneuverability is very good. Whether it achieves that supersonic speed through dry thrust (supercruise) or wet thrust/afterburner is unknown.


I personally think it is reasonable to interpret the pilot's words to mean the J-20 as it currently is may be able to supercruise, but the pilot's words definitely do not mean we can confidently proclaim J-20 is able to supercruise. It merely means we are able to speculate as to whether it can.



As to how J-20 can currently supercruise, I think it is even more incorrect to assume that it means J-20 is currently using WS-15. Deino has been complaining over on SDF before about how overzealous many people here are about WS-15, and frankly he's right.

If J-20 can supercruise, there are many explanations for it, beyond the unlikely prospect of WS-15 already being ready. For example, if J-20 can supercruise, first of all, at what speed? F-22 is said to be able to supercruise at mach 1.7-1.8. For J-20, if the pilot's words does mean J-20 can supercruise, does it mean J-20 can also supercruise at mach 1.7-1.8?

For all we know J-20 may only be able to supercruise at mach 1.0 or mach 1.1! Given that rather important qualification, if we are assuming J-20 can currently supercruise, and considering that WS-15 definitely are not on production J-20s (or even being tested on a J-20 to our knowledge), a logical conclusion is that J-20s may be able to supercruise using the uprated Al-31 variants that J-20 has been rumoured to use, like Al-31F-M2 which has a wet thrust of 145 kN. Compare that to F-22's F119 engine at 156 kN wet thrust, and consider that J-20 is a stealth fighter with internal weapon bays and more importantly J-20 fields a much more elongated delta airframe compared to F-22, and it becomes very plausible that J-20 may be able to supercruise at in the low Mach 1 regime using Al-31F-M2s as its powerplant.

Also consider that PAK FA using 117 (with a similar wet thrust of 147 kN) has also been claimed to be able to supercruise given Su-35 is able to supercruise using those same engines, and the idea that J-20 may be able to achieve supercruise using uprated Al-31F-M2 variant is quite plausible.


So, to conclude, there are two overarching speculative points we can derive:

1: the pilot's words in the videos do not confirm J-20 is able to supercruise, however his words do leave the possibility that J-20 may achieve supersonic speeds routinely, and this may be via supercruise.
2: if J-20 is able to supercruise, it is likely only in the low Mach 1 domain, because J-20 is not using WS-15 engines, however it may be able to supercruise in that domain using the uprated Al-31F-M2 engines that production aircraft are most likely using.

Another nonsense.. Now somebody try to twist with the word supercruise? Supercruise is excellent mention by the Chinese pilot does not mean J-20 can supercruise. Maybe you want to claim the J-20 pilot has low IQ? Hi, please dont insult the Chinese pilot by trying to suit you weak Chinese agenda. Its another weak low hand method by suggesting Chinese has a sub standard way to gauge international things compare to West? What you suggest is your personal opinion. What I mention about supercruise for J-20 is mention by the Chinese pilot and PLAAF deputy commander. Get your facts,right.

Your BS theory about AL-31 FM2 engine is never proven. If Russian can come up with a 145kn engine and why would their 117S engine having so much problem? You are just trying to fit your weak China theory to suit your personal agenda. We all know Russian are having big problem uprated their engines to 5th gen standard. They are no comfirmed reports of the so called uprated 145kn engine series. The engine for Su-35 are tied towards sales of the whole plane. The Russian has repeated stated they will never just sale only the engine to China and we know the engine deal concluded in late dec 2016 which proves to late for J-20 when LRIP already started.

You mean suddenly in dec 2016, PLAAF suddenly shove the Su-35 engine into J-20 which already going to be inducted and magically, everything can be done in few months time?

How low can you get?

 

[Blitzo]

Another nonsense.. Now somebody try to twist with the word supercruise? Supercruise is excellent mention by the Chinese pilot does not mean J-20 can supercruise. Maybe you want to claim the J-20 pilot has low IQ? Hi, please dont insult the Chinese pilot by trying to suit you weak Chinese agenda.

The pilot never used the word "supercruise".

The pilot said 一进了超音速(就是它的天下了), which translates to "once it enters supersonic speed"...

Supersonic speed and supercruise are very different.

If the pilot wanted to say that the J-20 could supercruise, the pilot would've used a different term, something like "超音速巡航".


Given what the pilot said, the best we can speculate is that J-20 can possibly supercruise, and given J-20 is not using WS-15 and is likely using Al-31F-M2, it is likely that J-20's supercruise is currently in the low Mach 1 regime at best.

edit: in other words, the pilot is not a liar, and everything he said is true. The problem is that you are not translating his words properly.



As for my motivations, I think you should have a look over at the history of my posts on SDF and CDF and take a look at my website as well. I think it's been posted on this forum a few times before.


edit:

Your BS theory about AL-31 FM2 engine is never proven. If Russian can come up with a 145kn engine and why would their 117S engine having so much problem? You are just trying to fit your weak China theory to suit your personal agenda. We all know Russian are having big problem uprated their engines to 5th gen standard. They are no comfirmed reports of the so called uprated 145kn engine series. The engine for Su-35 are tied towards sales of the whole plane. The Russian has repeated stated they will never just sale only the engine to China and we know the engine deal concluded in late dec 2016 which proves to late for J-20 when LRIP already started.

You mean suddenly in dec 2016, PLAAF suddenly shove the Su-35 engine into J-20 which already going to be inducted and magically, everything can be done in few months time?

How low can you get?

Al-31F-M2 and 117S engines are different. Al-31FM2 is from Salut, 117S is from Saturn.

I'm not saying J-20 is using 117S, I'm saying J-20 is using Al-31F-M2.
Obviously J-20 didn't suddenly use Al-31F-M2 in December 2016, they would've used that engine since at least the s/n 2011 prototype which flew in 2014 if not earlier since the original prototype/demonstrator s/n 2001.


The Russians are having challenges developing izd 30, but China's also having troubles developing WS-15, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying Al-31FM2 is not real -- salut.ru/ ViewTopic.php?Id= 1459 (fill in the blanks for the link)


Of course, we've never had confirmation of what kind of engine J-20 uses, however the most plausible explanation we have is that it uses an Al-31 variant. If J-20 is able to supercruise, then it is likely using an uprated Al-31 version like the Al-31FM2 which has been put forward for quite a while, and is also one of the primary powerplants that has been considered by Huitong and Deino as well
Certainly, the idea that J-20 is currently using WS-15 is absolutely ridiculous.