Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[BoQ77]

The nozzle looks significantly shorter and broader, it could be the WS-10G.

J-20 previously used the modified AL-31F.

Since China has many AL-31F engine in the inventory since the 1990s, and China can fully replicate it and improve it.

I don't think China could easily replicate Russian turbojet engine design with same quality

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I don't think China could easily replicate Russian turbojet engine design with same quality

lol, China has the best 3D printing technology, which can replicate the AL-31F engine at the same quality and much larger quantity.

But the WS-10 engine is better designed, so we don't have to replicate an inferior jet engine.

 

[Genesis]

I don't think China could easily replicate Russian turbojet engine design with same quality

Last I heard on some forums and Baidu wiki, the quality issue has been solved, in fact it's more durable, longer life span, and better reliability. However, we can't get the thrust, acceleration quite up to that standard after these upgrades. It's not a big difference, but it's enough to keep the engine from being used on everything.

That seems to be the latest and what I been hearing on a lot of forums that are pretty famous for accuracy.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Last I heard on some forums and Baidu wiki, the quality issue has been solved, in fact it's more durable, longer life span, and better reliability. However, we can't get the thrust, acceleration quite up to that standard after these upgrades. It's not a big difference, but it's enough to keep the engine from being used on everything.

That seems to be the latest and what I been hearing on a lot of forums that are pretty famous for accuracy.

WS-10 is more powerful than AL-31.

Meanwhile it is less mature because China started later.

Just like the Gerald Ford class is nowhere as mature as the Nimitz class, but does it mean it is not a good as the Nimitz class?

 

[Genesis]

WS-10 is more powerful than AL-31.

Meanwhile it is less mature because China started later.

Just like the Gerald Ford class is nowhere as mature as the Nimitz class, but does it mean it is not a good as the Nimitz class?

I didn't say it's not as good, I'm saying the less thrust and acceleration is the maturity issue. The material, composite material and other techniques in China are actually quite good, so reliability in terms of flying hours is actually less of an issue.

But that's just what i heard.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I didn't say it's not as good, I'm saying the less thrust and acceleration is the maturity issue. The material, composite material and other techniques in China are actually quite good, so reliability in terms of flying hours is actually less of an issue.

But that's just what i heard.

AL-31 only became mature until the mid of 2000s, but it was developed in the late of 1960s and deployed in the mid of 1980s.

WS-10 was developed in the late of 1980s and deployed in the mid of 2000s, so I expect a ten year of process to reach the maturity.

BTW, the future of the jet engine will be the scramjet, not the obsolete turbofan.

 

[Akasa]

I don't think China could easily replicate Russian turbojet engine design with same quality

There isn't a need to. Their own WS-10A outperforms their current batch of Saturn engines.

 

[Genesis]

AL-31 only became mature until the mid of 2000s, but it was developed in the late of 1960s and deployed in the mid of 1980s.

WS-10 was developed in the late of 1980s and deployed in the mid of 2000s, so I expect a ten year of process to reach the maturity.

BTW, the future of the jet engine will be the scramjet, not the obsolete turbofan.

reasonable time, but the WS-10 is not so much a copy, but like most Chinese "copies" they are upgrades. Russian engines have only half the reliability and life span as their American counter parts, so we are trying to catch up.

So I guess that's where the problems for this engine lies, if we just wanted the same thing we could have made on that did the same I guess earlier.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

reasonable time, but the WS-10 is not so much a copy, but like most Chinese "copies" they are upgrades. Russian engines have only half the reliability and life span as their American counter parts, so we are trying to catch up.

So I guess that's where the problems for this engine lies, if we just wanted the same thing we could have made on that did the same I guess earlier.

To be fair, this is the anti-Russia propaganda, the current AL-31 has pretty much the same lifespan as the F110.

Same for WS-10, it has reached 1000 hours of overhaul lifespan and 3000 hours of overall lifespan since 2005, but it got some quality control problems, since many young unexperienced workers couldn't offer the craftsmanship as those specialists built the prototype in the lab.

 

[applesauce]

reasonable time, but the WS-10 is not so much a copy, but like most Chinese "copies" they are upgrades. Russian engines have only half the reliability and life span as their American counter parts, so we are trying to catch up.

So I guess that's where the problems for this engine lies, if we just wanted the same thing we could have made on that did the same I guess earlier.

Ws-10 is actually based on an american core.

most problems with it are solved, but yea its not fully matured yet, gotta start somewhere though.

 

[BoQ77]

lol, China has the best 3D printing technology, which can replicate the AL-31F engine at the same quality and much larger quantity.

But the WS-10 engine is better designed, so we don't have to replicate an inferior jet engine.

I think 3D Printing tech is not a magic wand !!!

 

[mrnohnaimers]

Can tell me why China still pursue for Su-35 ? ( for Russian new design of Saturn engine ? )

IN below quote the General Director of United Aircraft Corp. Russia, seem to ignore that China is developing their "own advanced fighters" or J20, J31 are still nothing to Russia ?

The Russian have been actively trying to sell Su-35 to China for more than 7 years already. The problem is not the Russian's reluctance to sell, it's China's reluctance to buy.
Also copying Su-35 doesn't even make sense for China, say for example they sign the deal this year. It'll be 2015 or 2016 before Russia can deliver the Su-35s, and it'll take China 2-3 years to reverse engineer Su-35s and by than J-20s are entering into service.

 

[Genesis]

The Russian have been actively trying to sell Su-35 to China for more than 7 years already. The problem is not the Russian's reluctance to sell, it's China's reluctance to buy.
Also copying Su-35 doesn't even make sense for China, say for example they sign the deal this year. It'll be 2015 or 2016 before Russia can deliver the Su-35s, and it'll take China 2-3 years to reverse engineer Su-35s and by than J-20s are entering into service.

gee, that sounds...reasonable, there's articles on the web by "experts" that actively promote the Idea, Chinese second artillery, one of the richest missile forces in the world, cannot afford helicopters or cars, and thus need horses.

So I would be surprised if there's articles that says Chinese spies are in the White house right now stealing the president's dairy to black mail him.

 

[applesauce]

gee, that sounds...reasonable, there's articles on the web by "experts" that actively promote the Idea, Chinese second artillery, one of the richest missile forces in the world, cannot afford helicopters or cars, and thus need horses.

So I would be surprised if there's articles that says Chinese spies are in the White house right now stealing the president's dairy to black mail him.

lol i read that article about the horses. the author sure had a huge axe to grind lol.
the article acts as though the entire PLA relies on horses(china does has an actual cavalry force for remote areas where wheeled vehicles simply cannot go), which is like saying since the US has the USS constitution the USN must be relying entirely on wooden Frigates lol

 

[cirr]

2011 high-speed taxing runs：

maiden flight imminent。