Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[FuturePAF]

Mass production just started cause many things were not finalised for this plane, but no one should doubt China's ability on mass production once it started, China can easily outproduce anyone on this planet.

No one doubts China’s ability to manufacture, especially once the technology has matured. It’s the talk of possibly limiting the production run to 400 J-20s and perhaps 500 J-35s. But considering how mature and capable the J-20 is, a total production run of over 1000 and counting by the middle of the next decade is not impossible to imagine.

Considering the PLAAF still operates the F-7s and F-8s; it would be a sight to behold to see pilots go from those planes to the J-20s. Like that picture of the train operate with the steam train and then the same driver in a high speed train.

 

[beijingwalker]

Considering the PLAAF still operates the F-7s and F-8s;

F-7s and F-8s now are only for training now, retired from real combat. J-20 is very expensive, you don't want rookies to learn flying with this expensive bird.
我军现役的歼-7战斗机实际上也退役的差不多了，主要是表演机和教练机

 

[Bilal9]

F-7s and F-8s now are only for training now, retired from real combat. J-20 is very expensive, you don't want rookies to learn flying with this expensive bird.
我军现役的歼-7战斗机实际上也退役的差不多了，主要是表演机和教练机

I thought F-7 line was shut down after F-7BGI's were supplied to Bangladesh in 2013. They converted F-7 to new design trainer Guizhou JL-9 AKA FTC-2000G. Did a few get sold to Mynamar?

 

[Deino]

China to start upgrading J-20 fighter engines, the Mighty Dragon will be fitted with thrust vector nozzles to improve performance
Published: 5:00am, 20 Jan, 2022
View attachment 809978

China will start upgrading the engines of its most advanced stealth fighter jet, the J-20, this year to bring its performance closer to the American F-22 Raptor, according to a military source.
The performance of the fighter, also known as the Mighty Dragon, had been limited because it has been using a stopgap engine, the WS-10C, the latest model of an engine used in earlier Chinese warplanes.

These are now being fitted with new thrust-vectoring nozzles, a technology Chinese engineers have spent two decades trying to master and which the country first unveiled at the 2018 Zhuhai air show.

The US Raptor uses the technology, which controls the direction of the engine thrust, allowing the jet to perform sudden manoeuvres that earlier generations of aircraft cannot.

Chinese engineers have been developing a high-thrust engine, known as the WS-15, to allow its most advanced fighter to close the gap with US warplanes.

But this project has fallen behind schedule, prompting its developer, the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, to use the WS-10C on the planes instead.

A source familiar with the engine development programme said all WS-10C engines fitted to J-20s will be given thrust vectoring capabilities this year.

“Because verification of the two-dimensional thrust-vectoring nozzles, the technology used by the F-22, has been completed, the manoeuvrability and stealth capability of the J-20s will be upgraded,” the source, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the topic, said.

“The upgrading project aims at meeting the PLA’s intensive training demands, as the country plans to deploy about 200 J-20s.”

State media has previously reported that the PLA has deployed the J-20 to air force units responsible for the Taiwan Strait and East China Sea – which would involve at least four brigades or 150 fighters.

This week, state broadcaster China Central Television aired footage showing J-20 brigades conducting nighttime combat drills and other clips that showed the planes had been fitted with WS-10C engines.

Macau-based military observer Antony Wong Tong said: “It’s the first time the PLA showed simulated dogfight drills between different J-20 brigades, which is supposed to be regular training for PLA fighter jet pilots.


“But the thrust of the J-20 will still lag behind the US F-22, until China delivers the WS-15 engines for the aircraft.”

The J-20 entered service in 2017 after the US deployed more than 100 F-35s to Japan and South Korea.

At the time it was equipped with a Russian-made engine and China only began producing J-20s equipped with the domestically produced WS-10C engine in 2020.

The source said checks on the WS-15 engine are taking place and are expected to finish next year.

“The J-20 engines will be replaced by the WS-15 once the checks are completed,” the source said, adding there would be no technological problems because the existing Russian and Chinese engines were a similar size and shape.

China to start upgrading J-20 fighter engines

A source says the jet, also known as the Mighty Dragon, will be fitted with thrust vector nozzles to improve performance.

www.scmp.com

Sorry, but this is again a plain stupid report by our most favourite ignorant Minnie Chan:

Her fantasy is indeed interesting, we have just a handful of images suggesting a TVC nozzle is under test, some sources claim it is a WS-10B-3 others it is the WS-15, but she spins yet another story ... and again all based on her typical "contacts close to the" whatever!

• China will start upgrading the engines of its most advanced stealth fighter jet, the J-20, this year ...
• The performance of the fighter, also known as the Mighty Dragon, had been limited because it has been using a stopgap engine, the WS-10C ...
• These are now being fitted with new thrust-vectoring nozzles ...
• A source familiar with the engine development programme said all WS-10C engines fitted to J-20s will be given thrust vectoring capabilities this year.

I really don't know what she is smoking

 

[Bin Laden]

Sorry, but this is again a plain stupid report by our most favourite ignorant Minnie Chan:

Her fantasy is indeed interesting, we have just a handful of images suggesting a TVC nozzle is under test, some sources claim it is a WS-10B-3 others it is the WS-15, but she spins yet another story ... and again all based on her typical "contacts close to the" whatever!

• China will start upgrading the engines of its most advanced stealth fighter jet, the J-20, this year ...
• The performance of the fighter, also known as the Mighty Dragon, had been limited because it has been using a stopgap engine, the WS-10C ...
• These are now being fitted with new thrust-vectoring nozzles ...
• A source familiar with the engine development programme said all WS-10C engines fitted to J-20s will be given thrust vectoring capabilities this year.

I really don't know what she is smoking

Well it's not out of question.My guess is PLAAF wants to equip large proportion of the j20s with TVC.
Total planned fleet(for now) is of 400 aircrafts.
Out of which around 100-140 are with AL-31FM2 witn no TVC
And with WS10C ones being mass produced, we'll see a large number of them like ~100 j20s
Because Ws15 matured and mass produced is couple years away.
So if these ones aren't equipped with TVC half of the PLAAF's j20 fleet would be missing it which I guess they don't want to.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Hi-Res Photos (with PL-10 on rail outside closed side bays)

A little animation:

 

[Deino]

…
Out of which around 100-140 are with AL-31FM2 witn no TVC
…

How do you explain 100-140 powered by AL-31FN/FM engines, when there are „only“ about 100 today and alone 50 of them using WS-10C?

 

[Shotgunner51]

F-7s and F-8s now are only for training now, retired from real combat. J-20 is very expensive, you don't want rookies to learn flying with this expensive bird.
我军现役的歼-7战斗机实际上也退役的差不多了，主要是表演机和教练机

I thought F-7 line was shut down after F-7BGI's were supplied to Bangladesh in 2013. They converted F-7 to new design trainer Guizhou JL-9 AKA FTC-2000G. Did a few get sold to Mynamar?

Nope, neither J-7 or J-8 is used for training, nor aerobatics. The last brigades with J-7G are anxiously awaiting for their turn of new birds, and J-8F are used as hi-speed recon.

PLAAF academy has changed its pilot training program since 2018 from 4 phases to 3: Indoctrination - Development - Transition. K-8 and LIFT are used in early phases, in the final phase ("Transition") cadets are trained on jets re-commissioned from combat duties like J-10A/AS, J-11B/BS. Recently the 1st batch of cadets graduated from the new program with J-10 (J-10AS for ccompanied flight, J-10A for solo flight) transferred from combat troops.

PLAAF flight academy introduces J-10 fighers in flight training program of pilot cadets - China Military

Recently, the PLA Air Force (PLAAF)'s first batch of pilot cadets that has been directly trained with the third-generation fighter jets completed their solo flight assessment.

eng.chinamil.com.cn

Yes, Chengdu shut down their J-7 line after delivery of last F-7BGI to Bangladesh. But Guizhou carry on with this legendary airframe, which is either exported under designation of FTC-2000 (Sudan & I guess Cambodia cos Myanmar has chosen far more expensive JF-17), or used under designation JL-9 as LIFT (competing share with Hongdu JL-10) in PLAAF/PLANAF academy.

 

[luciferdd]

TRAD for J-20

 

[Bin Laden]

How do you explain 100-140 powered by AL-31FN/FM engines, when there are „only“ about 100 today and alone 50 of them using WS-10C?

Most estimates put total number around 150+

U.S. Sources Claim China Could Have Over 150 J-20 Stealth Fighters in Service as Production Expands — Is It Possible?

Since entry into service in March 2017, when it became the first non-U.S. fifth generation fighter operational anywhere in the world, China’s J-20 heavyweight stealth

militarywatchmagazine.com

So there aren't only 100.Plus ws10C ones just got cleared for mass production after testing so not sure about the 50 WS10C ones any source? Although I don't deny the possibility since use of Al31 supposedly stopped in mid 2019. They could've produced atleast 40 by now given the production rate.
But again I didn't claim to know the exact number of AL31ones either, My guess is that's they are atleast 100'ish since most j20s produced predominantly use them.

 

[Deino]

Most estimates put total number around 150+

U.S. Sources Claim China Could Have Over 150 J-20 Stealth Fighters in Service as Production Expands — Is It Possible?

Since entry into service in March 2017, when it became the first non-U.S. fifth generation fighter operational anywhere in the world, China’s J-20 heavyweight stealth

militarywatchmagazine.com

So there aren't only 100.Plus ws10C ones just got cleared for mass production after testing so not sure about the 50 WS10C ones any source? Although I don't deny the possibility since use of Al31 supposedly stopped in mid 2019. They could've produced atleast 40 by now given the production rate.
But again I didn't claim to know the exact number of AL31ones either, My guess is that's they are atleast 100'ish since most j20s produced predominantly use them.

No, most estimated, which base their reports on that BS written by Minnie Chan. Already in mid-2021 she claimed a wrong number of units, each with a full complement of daduis and a production rate that is impossible. Just look at her latest false-claim concerning engines ... as such, forget it and read what is written here by reliable and credible members.

 

[lcloo]

Most estimates put total number around 150+

U.S. Sources Claim China Could Have Over 150 J-20 Stealth Fighters in Service as Production Expands — Is It Possible?

Since entry into service in March 2017, when it became the first non-U.S. fifth generation fighter operational anywhere in the world, China’s J-20 heavyweight stealth

militarywatchmagazine.com

So there aren't only 100.Plus ws10C ones just got cleared for mass production after testing so not sure about the 50 WS10C ones any source? Although I don't deny the possibility since use of Al31 supposedly stopped in mid 2019. They could've produced atleast 40 by now given the production rate.
But again I didn't claim to know the exact number of AL31ones either, My guess is that's they are atleast 100'ish since most j20s produced predominantly use them.

We have to consider the following points on why we cannot use the F-22 production rates as bench mark for J20, as suggested by Airforce Monthly magazine.

1) F-22 was already in final design mode when the mass productionn started, thus they proceeded with normal full production rates vs low initial production rates for J20 during the same first few years of production.

2) J20's initial production rates were kept low because Russian engines are interim solution to keep just enough number of J20 for training of instructors and seed pilots. The number of these inital batches of J20 could not be more than 50. At this stage of time, they probably have only one production line running.

3) J20II with domestic WS-10C engines means the first interim stage with Russian engines are over, and with 3 or 4 production lines running, the annual production rates of J20II can be 3 to 4 times that of early J20 equiped with Russian engine.

4) If China decides that total production of J20 should exceed 1,000 units, then the peak annual production rates should belong to J20III with WS-15 engines, but this is yet to be seen many years from now, probably after 2025 at the earliest.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Chine still use Russian engines for their j20? its more than 5 years that you shared pictures that local engine is ready... when will the local engine be ready?

 

[siegecrossbow]

Chine still use Russian engines for their j20? its more than 5 years that you shared pictures that local engine is ready... when will the local engine be ready?

What are you talking about? WS-10C has been in service for at least two years. In fact we've been sharing photos of the new engines with black nozzles for the past few pages.

 

[Piotr]

J-20 fighter could get directed-energy weapon, drone-control capability: experts​

By Liu Xuanzun
Published: Jan 23, 2022 08:29 PM

China's domestically developed J-20 stealth fighter jet could in the future be equipped with directed-energy weapons, and it can also spawn variants for early warning, unmanned flight and drone control, military experts predicted after the aircraft received concentrated media coverage over the past week.

"I believe our industrial departments can turn some of our ideas into reality, including those from the current trend of aviation main battle equipment," Wang Mingliang, a Chinese military expert, was quoted as saying in a China Central Television (CCTV) program on Saturday.

The J-20 could be equipped with directed-energy weapons, or it could be fitted with more powerful radar and fire control systems and become a small early warning aircraft, Wang predicted.

It is also possible that the J-20 could become capable of unmanned flight, Wang said, noting that the J-20 could also conduct coordinated operation with drones by leading them, or commanding a drone swarm in combat.

The J-20 is now equipped with domestically developed engines, but it is expected to get even more powerful domestic engines in the future, and this will enable the J-20 to carry more payload and carry out more types of missions, Wang predicted.

Wang made the remarks when asked about his expectations on the future development of the J-20, after the program rounded-up the recent concentrated media coverage of the J-20, including intense nocturnal combat drills and interviews with pilots.

In early 2020, state broadcaster CCTV reported that China was developing an airborne laser attack pod. Chinese defense firms have also publicly displayed laser defense weapon systems at exhibitions, like the LW-30, which could use a directional-emission high-energy laser to intercept aerial targets.

Lasers are a great tool for aerial interception because there is no time delay, but it requires a large amount of energy to be effective and that is the issue that must be addressed for it to be mounted on an aircraft, analysts said.

Foreign media reported in November 2021 that the twin-seat variant of the J-20 made its maiden flight at the time.

An extra pilot on the twin-seat fighter jet could be utilized in more complicated combat situations, like to control loyal wingman-style drones, which will accompany the manned fighter in flight and carry different types of payloads for a wide variety of missions, including ground and surface attacks, air-to-air combat and electronic disruption, Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times in a previous interview.

Wang Ya'nan predicted that combat data from the second seat could be gathered, analyzed and used to train artificial intelligence, which could eventually replace the second pilot.

These are in line with general trends of warplane development worldwide, as countries like the US are also exploring some of the related technologies, another Beijing-based military expert told the Global Times on Sunday, requesting anonymity.

China is making concrete steps to make these sci-fi-looking concepts a reality, the expert said.

Beyond upgrades for J-20s, even better warplanes of a next generation are expected to replace them in the future, analysts said.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202201/1246676.shtml