Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Beast]

lol so to claim such BS is really a shame, especially when China has learned SO MUCH from Russia.

Like how China build a brand new better CV-17 aircraft carrier while Russian still struggle to repair their kuznetsov?

China even build its own LHD 075 while Russian even need to beg France for mistral? I guess you r still living in the past or 90s...

Now is the time for Russian to learn from Chinese or we teaching them a thing or two.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

expecting afterburn 150kN-170kN from C variant;
but not sure if those image is C variant;
sources say that latest batches of J16 and J20 are reportedly equipped with very powerful WS10B, which dry powers 96kN / afterburning powers 145kN

And what your source that WS-10C have burner thrust of 170 kn??

 

[Figaro]

First of all, I need to correct your statement: "The Su-57 bashing is really strong from China, why is that?"

That is NOT a China's bashing on Su-57.

BUT some individual blogger has opinion as such. Since he has been around for many years, since 2012. But he posted with efforts seeing all the accompanying graphics

If you have more accurate info then I have no problem to take yours. I myself don't opine in this regard, for I don't know, and also not curious that much to dig deeply in that aspect. So just take it as is... some individual blogger has view like that and made it public with efforts in Twitter. But feel free to counter if his view ain't accurate and you have better info.

Honestly the Su-57 gets extremely harsh responses from Western and Chinese critics alike. And a lot of it is justified.

And what your source that WS-10C have burner thrust of 170 kn??

The latest WS-10 variant probably has most 145 kN. I really don't see the WS-10 expanding past anything beyond that due to design limitations and the fact that the WS-15 is just around the corner. After all why struggle just to get a few more kN out of a relatively dated engine design when a 180 kN+ modern engine is just around the corner?

 

[zhxy]

After the WS-15 becomes operational, the WS-10 version will gradually cease in production. The fact is that the WS-15 is a generational leap over even the latest WS-10 variant. The slight range improvement and lower cost with the WS-10 is not nearly enough to offset the massive benefits offered by the WS-15.

The latest WS-10 variant probably has most 145 kN. I really don't see the WS-10 expanding past anything beyond that due to design limitations and the fact that the WS-15 is just around the corner. After all why struggle just to get a few more kN out of a relatively dated engine design when a 180 kN+ modern engine is just around the corner?

Mass production of Ws-15 for the J-20 and further optimization of the Ws-10 is a more streamlined approach.

The WS-10 is the most efficient engine for the J-10, J-15 and J-16.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Honestly the Su-57 gets extremely harsh responses from Western and Chinese critics alike. And a lot of it is justified.

The latest WS-10 variant probably has most 145 kN. I really don't see the WS-10 expanding past anything beyond that due to design limitations and the fact that the WS-15 is just around the corner. After all why struggle just to get a few more kN out of a relatively dated engine design when a 180 kN+ modern engine is just around the corner?

The WS-10B is 150KN, and it has powered the J-20A since 2011.

The WS-15 is 180KN, and it had its first maiden flight with the J-20B since 2017.

Our aero expert has already confirmed it.

 

[Deino]

The WS-10B is 150KN, and it has powered the J-20A since 2011.

The WS-15 is 180KN, and it had its first maiden flight with the J-20B since 2017.

Our aero expert has already confirmed it.

Surely not ... no J-20 flew in 2011 with the WS-10 and all operational ones are powered by AL-31FN (mod or -M2. The first J-20A - as prototype 2021- was seen first in mid-2017 and as such maybe available since early the same year. But surely NO J-20 flew in 2011 using a WS-10.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Surely not ... no J-20 flew in 2011 with the WS-10 and all operational ones are powered by AL-31FN (mod or -M2. The first J-20A - as prototype 2021- was seen first in mid-2017 and as such maybe available since early the same year. But surely NO J-20 flew in 2011 using a WS-10.

View attachment 691759
View attachment 691758

It has already been declassified by our aero expert, and why I have to buy the nonsense from the CD forum?

Let me clarify it, the J-20 has NEVER been powered by any kind of Russian engine.

The CD forum is now infamously known as the source of fake news, and never trust anything from them.

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信 - 西瓜视频

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信，于2020年08月26日上线，由航空新观察上传。西瓜视频为您提供高清视频，画面清晰、播放流畅，看丰富、高质量视频就上西瓜视频。

www.ixigua.com

 

[Deino]

It has already been declassified by our aero expert, and why I have to buy the nonsense from the CD forum?

Let me clarify it, the J-20 has NEVER been powered by any kind of Russian engine.

The CD forum is now infamously known as the source of fake news, and never trust anything from them.

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信 - 西瓜视频

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信，于2020年08月26日上线，由航空新观察上传。西瓜视频为您提供高清视频，画面清晰、播放流畅，看丰富、高质量视频就上西瓜视频。

www.ixigua.com

But why does it look exactly like an AL-31, has the same external and internal details which are vastly different to the WS-10? As such when it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it most likely is not a chicken, regardless what any "expert" says.

Anyway thanks for the link.

 

[Figaro]

It has already been declassified by our aero expert, and why I have to buy the nonsense from the CD forum?

Let me clarify it, the J-20 has NEVER been powered by any kind of Russian engine.

The CD forum is now infamously known as the source of fake news, and never trust anything from them.

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信 - 西瓜视频

宋心之：涡扇-15推力可以达到18吨，看到翻修寿命后都不敢相信，于2020年08月26日上线，由航空新观察上传。西瓜视频为您提供高清视频，画面清晰、播放流畅，看丰富、高质量视频就上西瓜视频。

www.ixigua.com

I'm pretty sure the chief test pilot of the J-10 who knew the people who flew on the J-20 prototypes stated all the prototypes and initial batch were powered by Russian engines.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But why does it look exactly like an AL-31, has the same external and internal details which are vastly different to the WS-10? As such when it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it most likely is not a chicken, regardless what any "expert" says.

Anyway thanks for the link.

Only coincidence, but he definitely stressed that only two types of engine have been used for the J-20: WS-10B and WS-15.

Our veteran test pilot of J-10 had also leaked about the WS-15 back in 2018; the J-20B already got it.

Two true military insiders have already declassified the WS-15, yet most people still ignore their words, but choose to believe those fake military insiders from the CD forum.

I'm pretty sure the chief test pilot of the J-10 who knew the people who flew on the J-20 prototypes stated all the prototypes and initial batch were powered by Russian engines.

No, he never claimed that the J-20 was powered by the Russian engine.

But he had leaked the WS-15 being powered for the J-20B since 2017.

 

[Deino]

No, he never claimed that the J-20 was powered by the Russian engine.

But he had leaked the WS-15 being powered for the J-20B since 2017.

But in aeroengine design there is nothing like coincidence. So why do all WS-10 variants look more or less the same and this one should look like an exact internal and external copy of an AL-31?? It simply makes no sense and even more does not fit to any report from other most reliable insiders who claim the WS-15 is not ready yet; and surely not in 2011.

IMO this old fellow is simply wrong.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But in aeroengine design there is nothing like coincidence. So why do all WS-10 variants look more or less the same and this one should look like an exact internal and external copy of an AL-31?? It simply makes no sense and even more does not fit to any report from other most reliable insiders who claim the WS-15 is not ready yet; and surely not in 2011.

IMO this old fellow is simply wrong.

Back in 2011, the CCTV also declassified the WS-10B being powered for the J-20A, but most people said it was fake news.

Now the official PLAAF expert did say the same thing, and it is still the fake news?

According to their own logic, the F-18 should also be powered by the Russian engines, because the pair of engines also got the black hue like the AL-31FN!

So far, two real PLAAF insiders have proved that the J-20 has never used any kind of Russian engine.

They both know the chief designer of the J-20 in person, often had private conversation with him.

Yet the anonymous "military experts" from the CD forum suggest the J-20 being powered by the AL-31FN, yet nobody known what type of punks are hiding behind their computer screen. In the meantime, they have successfully brainwashed so many military fans from China.....

 

[Deino]

Back in 2011, the CCTV also declassified the WS-10B being powered for the J-20A, but most people said it was fake news.

Now the official PLAAF expert did say the same thing, and it is still the fake news?

According to their own logic, the F-18 should also be powered by the Russian engines, because the pair of engines also got the black hue like the AL-31FN!


View attachment 691765

Oh please come on ... the F404 in the F/A-18C is vastly different to an AL-31, I think this comparison is ridicolous.

Concerning the question on why it seems as if two "official PLAAF expert did say the same thing", I don't know, maybe for propaganda - You know the very first report in CCTV was based on Minnie Chan's SCMP report and as such I can imagine taht they continue with thsi claim since it created a lot of positive thinking and enthusiasm in the public.

Anyway no-one including youself so far explained why all WS-10s look more or less the same and are vastly different to the AL-31 in certain details and "by coincidence" this mystical WS-15 should look exactly like an AL-31??

Even more why would the PLAAF accept now a "downgraded" WS-10C-powered version, when the WS-15 is running smoothly since 201? Again, it makes no sense.

IMO impossible and I don't believe in coincidence; I believe in visual recognisable facts and when an enbgine looks the same it is the same in the same way it is a different one when it looks different.

But let's wait when we see the first real WS-15.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Oh please come on ... the F404 in the F/A-18C is vastly different to an AL-31, I think this comparison is ridicolous.

Concerning the question on why it seems as if two "official PLAAF expert did say the same thing", I don't know, maybe for propaganda - You know the very first report in CCTV was based on Minnie Chan's SCMP report and as such I can imagine taht they continue with thsi claim since it created a lot of positive thinking and enthusiasm in the public.

Anyway no-one including youself so far explained why all WS-10s look more or less the same and are vastly different to the AL-31 in certain details and "by coincidence" this mystical WS-15 should look exactly like an AL-31??

Even more why would the PLAAF accept now a "downgraded" WS-10C-powered version, when the WS-15 is running smoothly since 201? Again, it makes no sense.

IMO impossible and I don't believe in coincidence; I believe in visual recognisable facts and when an enbgine looks the same it is the same in the same way it is a different one when it looks different.

But let's wait when we see the first real WS-15.

The engine of the original J-20 is also vastly different from the AL-31FN, even the internal layout is vastly different.

These guys belong to the inner circle, and the engine of the J-20 is just like public information for them.

If you want to suggest that they were wrong unless you can prove that they were both lying.

 

[Deino]

The engine of the original J-20 is also vastly different from the AL-31FN, even the internal layout is vastly different.

These guys belong to the inner circle, and the engine of the J-20 is just like public information for them.

If you want to suggest that they were wrong unless you can prove that they were both lying.

Sorry, the engine on all early J-20s is exactly the same as the one we see in all J-10B/C fighters, there are no external or even internal differences visible; at least that I know.

If you know some I would be more than happy be corrected but otherwise even if I don't have an explanation for their claim nor do I have the right to claim they are lying, all evidence is against their claim.

As such if a NASA expert claims there is live on Mars and it only looks by coincidence like sand and rock, I would still rate his claim wrong unless he gives an explanation for this ... and it must be a better one than "by coincidence" regardless if he is an expert,