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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

F-22 has much better engine than J-20.
It's stealth, radar and avionics are also probably a little better as well.

Nope, the thrust and TWR are similar.

The only difference is that the F119 and F135 are more mature products, thus the lifespan is about twice as the long as the current WS-15.

The WS-15 will take few more years to match the lifespan of the best US engine.

Our aero expert has recently declassified many information about the WS-10B and WS-15 with authorization.
 
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Nope, the thrust and TWR are similar.

The only difference is that the F119 and F135 are more mature products, thus the lifespan is about twice as the long as the current WS-15.

The WS-15 will take few more years to match the lifespan of the best US engine.

Our aero expert has recently declassified many information about the WS-10B and WS-15 with authorization.

Let us talk when WS-15 is in service.

Currently J-20s are powered by WS-10X engines.
 
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F-22A Raptor is being upgraded over time:

"As noted by Janes World Air Forces , since its introduction into service in 2003 the F-22 has been subject to a rolling upgrade path that has included improved avionics, updated life support systems, and new air-to-air and air‐to‐ground weapons."

Link: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...unch-ares-modernisation-plan-for-f-22-fighter

Americans are usually tight-lipped about advances of F-22A. Some of the capabilities of this aircraft are not even hinted in Public domain.

F-22A is excellent in VLO aspects - its uniform RCS is widely believed/asserted to be lower than that of any other fighter jet in existence. Just the shaping considerations are self-explanatory (even crude understanding of LO sciences is sufficient to get the memo) - minute details are only clear to those in the knowhow who are few.

FYI: https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2020/05/28/the-f-22-imperative/

One blunder that Americans seem to regret is stopping production of F-22A - they virtually killed a platform in short. Now they are pouring resources into development of NAGF which will replace F-22A and more eventually.

The US wasted 2 decades fighting useless wars instead of keeping its eyes on emerging threats.

i.e. hundreds of billions spent that could have been used more wisely. Like buying more F-22s.

F-22 was killed due to a false sense of security.
 
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Let us talk when WS-15 is in service.

Currently J-20s are powered by WS-10X engines.

The WS-15 has already started its maiden flight in 2017.

The J-20 started with the WS-10B in 2011 according to our official aero-aviation expert.


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F-22 has much better engine than J-20.
It's stealth, radar and avionics are also probably a little better as well.
I doubt it, the F-22 was made using 90s era electronics and avionics while the J-20 is using state of the art Chinese electronics. Just think about how much the computers/electronics/IC industry has improved since the 90s. The only advantage is the engines. Regarding stealth, the J-20 has DSI while the F-22 does not, so it is anyone's guess as S10 said. However, the F-22 does have a key advantage in the tail aspect sector due to the superior rectangular nozzles over even serrated nozzles the J-20 (and the F-35) currently have.
F-22A Raptor is being upgraded over time:

"As noted by Janes World Air Forces , since its introduction into service in 2003 the F-22 has been subject to a rolling upgrade path that has included improved avionics, updated life support systems, and new air-to-air and air‐to‐ground weapons."

Link: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...unch-ares-modernisation-plan-for-f-22-fighter

Americans are usually tight-lipped about advances of F-22A. Some of the capabilities of this aircraft are not even hinted in Public domain.

F-22A is excellent in VLO aspects - its uniform RCS is widely believed/asserted to be lower than that of any other fighter jet in existence. Just the shaping considerations are self-explanatory (even crude understanding of LO sciences is sufficient to get the memo) - minute details are only clear to those in the knowhow who are few.

FYI: https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2020/05/28/the-f-22-imperative/

One blunder that Americans seem to regret is stopping production of F-22A - they virtually killed a platform in short. Now they are pouring resources into development of NAGF which will replace F-22A and more eventually.
It is more appropriate to compare the avionics, including radar, with the F-35 than the F-22. We don't know what extent the F-22 subsystems have been upgraded to.
 
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I doubt it, the F-22 was made using 90s era electronics and avionics while the J-20 is using state of the art Chinese electronics. The only advantage is the engines.

Nope, F-22 is only a decade older the J-20 and it gets upgrades all the time in areas like avionics. Although the radar has not been upgraded yet hardware wise, the software is being improved all the time.

I would put my money on the decade older AESA radar on F-22 being better than that on the J-20. US has more experience than China.

As for stealth, US is ahead of China by a fair margin as it has been making stealth planes since the 1970s. China can take stealth shaping design cues from US but has to design and manufacture the stealth materials by itself from scratch.
 
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You think.China has caught up to US in stealth tech?
J-20 is the 1st stealth plane from China, whereas US had been building stealth aircraft for decades before F-22 went into service.
Radar and avionics are constantly upgraded and while China is catching up, it is still a little behind from USA.
Britain built the first steamship and train, but do you see it having any significant market share on shipbuilding and high speed train manufacturing today? Past history is a poor indicator of present performance. Unless you have classified information on RCS return on both aircraft, you're speculating based on existing assumptions that China is behind. It's called technology leapfrogging.


While F-22 received incremental upgrades to its avionics and radar, the architecture remained the same. Several generations in terms of radar development and electronics have passed since then and introduction of J-20 into service.

"At least [the F-22s] are safe from cyberattack," wrote former Navy Secretary John Lehman over the weekend in the Wall Street Journal. "No one in China knows how to program the '83 vintage IBM software that runs them."
 
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F-22 was killed due to a false sense of security.
F-22 did not have good operational range either. This is absolutely crucial in the Pacific theatre, where the front is much wider than that in Europe. So the USAF was going to have to design a new fighter no matter what to confront China because the F-22 just does not have enough range.
Nope, F-22 is only a decade older the J-20 and it gets upgrades all the time in areas like avionics. Although the radar has not been upgraded yet hardware wise, the software is being improved all the time.

I would put my money on the decade older AESA radar on F-22 being better than that on the J-20. US has more experience than China.

As for stealth, US is ahead of China by a fair margin as it has been making stealth planes since the 1970s. China can take stealth shaping design cues from US but has to design and manufacture the stealth materials by itself from scratch.
Unless you can give us concrete evidence, saying you would put your money on X does not make your argument any more credible. Its just like saying how did the Chinese get their EM catapult to work when the USN has been plagued by its issues even though the US has almost seven more decades of experience in catapults than the US! The good thing about being the one who is catching up is progress tends to be much quicker than the leader in the field, which is indisputably the US with regards to avionics/radars. China already fielded its first AESA in 2002 or 2003 so in this regard it is not far at all behind the US.
 
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Britain built the first steamship and train, but do you see it having any significant market share on shipbuilding and high speed train manufacturing today? Past history is a poor indicator of present performance. Unless you have classified information on RCS return on both aircraft, you're speculating based on existing assumptions that China is behind.

While F-22 received incremental upgrades to its avionics and radar, the architecture remained the same. Several generations in terms of radar development and electronics have passed since then and introduction of J-20 into service.

Facts:

1. US has been making stealth planes since the 1970s. F-22 is the 3rd stealth plane it has made, after F-117 and B-2.

2. J-20 is the first stealth plane that China has made.

Even a child would know that China cannot beat the US in stealth tech with just 1 plane.
 
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Unless you can give us concrete evidence, saying you would put your money on X does not make your argument any more credible. Its just like saying how did the Chinese get their EM catapult to work when the USN has been plagued by its issues even though the US has almost seven more decades of experience in catapults than the US! The good thing about being the one who is catching up is progress tends to be much quicker than the leader in the field, which is indisputably the US with regards to avionics/radars.


You are just speculating just like me.

If you really think that China is on the same level as US on stealth, avionics and radar as USA then no amount of logic will convince you otherwise.

PS - EM catapults are totally different tech than steam catapults and US experience in steam catapults did not really give that much useful experience to build EM catapults.
 
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F-22A Raptor is being upgraded over time:

Americans are usually tight-lipped about advances of F-22A. Some of the capabilities of this aircraft are not even hinted in Public domain.

F-22A is excellent in VLO aspects - its uniform RCS is widely believed/asserted to be lower than that of any other fighter jet in existence. Just the shaping considerations are self-explanatory (even crude understanding of LO sciences is sufficient to get the memo) - minute details are only clear to those in the knowhow who are few.

FYI: https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2020/05/28/the-f-22-imperative/

One blunder that Americans seem to regret is stopping production of F-22A - they virtually killed a platform in short. Now they are pouring resources into development of NAGF which will replace F-22A and more eventually.
I can upgrade a 1969 Shelby Mustang as much as I want, but it's not going to match the performance of 2020 GT500 Shelby. China has been releasing a new generation of avionics and radars every half a decade since 2000. Those aren't upgrades, but new products.
 
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Your are just speculating just like me.

If you really think that China is on the same level as US on stealth, avionics and radar as USA then no amount of logic will convince you otherwise.
No I don't. But I think it is more accurate to compare the J-20 to the F-35 in these regards, whether it be RCS reduction, avionics, and radar. Please tell me why both the J-20 and F-35 have DSI while the F-22 does not? If you actually offered concrete evidence beyond the US has decades of experience in field A, B, or C, then you would be much more convincing. Under your assumption, something like a Chinese EM catapult would be impossible for another two decades because the US had started working on them a lot earlier than the Chinese (or hypersonics for another matter).

If you said what you said 10 or 20 years ago, then the Chinese military would not even be close to the state it is today lmao.
 
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Facts:

1. US has been making stealth planes since the 1970s. F-22 is the 3rd stealth plane it has made, after F-117 and B-2.

2. J-20 is the first stealth plane that China has made.

Even a child would know that China cannot beat the US in stealth tech with just 1 plane.
And I have already told you that Britain has been building trains and ships since the 18th century. That doesn't guarantee their current success (or lackoff).

Going by that logic, a 20 year old athlete can't beat a 60 year old former athlete because the latter has more experience. The political situation had changed. China has more STEM research and patent filed than US, and is the largest industrial power. The economic situation has changed. The technological situation had changed.

Your thinking has not.
 
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No I don't. But I think it is more accurate to compare the J-20 to the F-35 in these regards, whether it be RCS reduction, avionics, and radar. Please tell me why both the J-20 and F-35 have DSI while the F-22 does not? If you actually offered evidence beyond the US has decades of experience in field A, B, or C, then you would be much more convincing.



Are you even aware that F-22 has much higher degree of stealth than F-35?

This along with it's far better kinematic performance is why it was banned for export.

F-35 only really compares to F-22 in the areas of avionics. In stealth and kinematic performance F-22 totally dominates it.

Saying that the F-22 does receive incremental avionics and software upgrades on it's radar. What is inside the F-22 now is not exactly the same as back in 2005.
 
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Are you even aware that F-22 has much higher degree of stealth than F-35?

This along with it's far better kinematic performance is why it was banned for export.

F-35 only really compares to F-22 in the areas of avionics. In stealth and kinematic performance F-22 totally dominates it.
From what sector? The F-35 has DSI while the F-22 does not, which would lend to better performance in frontal aspect returns. The F-22s advantage is in its rectangular nozzles, which is considerably better than even serrated axisymmetric nozzles.

Anyways, could you please tell me how the Chinese got their EM catapult to work since the US started their efforts way before the Chinese and are still struggling?

Saying that the F-22 does receive incremental avionics and software upgrades on it's radar. What is inside the F-22 now is not exactly the same as back in 2005.
As S10 mentioned, these are incremental upgrades, not evolutional or generation upgrades. The fact is its radar was designed in the 90s and uses technology of that area, with some minor improvements along the way.
 
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