Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[LKJ86]

Via @前站起飞 from Weibo

 

[kungfugymnast]

Gun is useless. I know some will claim Vietnam era airwar as gun is still relevant. But ask yourself, how many years is Vietnam war? 50 years ago thing. We are into the era of even unmanned drone.

The sidewinder during Vietnam era cannot engage enemy aircraft at close range of 1-3km. Modern WVRAAM can even engage enemy aircraft at gun range and not to mention multi angle which gun is not possible to do it.

I can for sure bet, there will never be a scenario where u need gun to engage a competitive enemy aircraft in modern era aerial warfare.

Guns are indeed important when you run out of missiles or the active radar guided PL-12/15 can't lock on F-22 & you already used up the 2 PL-10E in dogfight.

Vietnam war, it was the AIM-7C/D/E that failed to hit enemy Migs mostly while the AIM-9B rear aspect missiles had more successful hits. The F-4B lacks the guns therefore it can't kill the Migs when it ran out of AIM-9B. The F-4B/C/D later had to carry external gun pod SUU-223 under wing without proper gun reticle. Newer F-4E/J variants came with internal guns.

For present era, fighters equipped with advanced AESA incorporated RWR, MAWS, ECM, ECCM could perform evasive maneuver well and spoof incoming missiles better. Also the stealth and low RCS reduced missiles effective range a lot bringing back visual range engagement. Even large new bombers will be fully stealth nowadays. You'll need guns to fire warning shots telling the stealth bomber to surrender or shoot it down as IR guided missiles are vital to keep them for self defense against F-22.

@Deino try come up with points like this rather than going personal with fault finding to ban someone you dislike

 

[samsara]

Guns are indeed important when you run out of missiles or the active radar guided PL-12/15 can't lock on F-22 & you already used up the 2 PL-10E in dogfight.

Vietnam war, it was the AIM-7C/D/E that failed to hit enemy Migs mostly while the AIM-9B rear aspect missiles had more successful hits. The F-4B lacks the guns therefore it can't kill the Migs when it ran out of AIM-9B. The F-4B/C/D later had to carry external gun pod SUU-223 under wing without proper gun reticle. Newer F-4E/J variants came with internal guns.

For present era, fighters equipped with advanced AESA incorporated RWR, MAWS, ECM, ECCM could perform evasive maneuver well and spoof incoming missiles better. Also the stealth and low RCS reduced missiles effective range a lot bringing back visual range engagement. Even large new bombers will be fully stealth nowadays. You'll need guns to fire warning shots telling the stealth bomber to surrender or shoot it down as IR guided missiles are vital to keep them for self defense against F-22.

@Deino try come up with points like this rather than going personal with fault finding to ban someone you dislike

May you please have your courtesy to not fill up this important thread with your "gun" matters. Believe as you wish the importance of such gun, but please refrain yourself from flagging this thread with such matter.

 

[Figaro]

Guns are indeed important when you run out of missiles or the active radar guided PL-12/15 can't lock on F-22 & you already used up the 2 PL-10E in dogfight.

Vietnam war, it was the AIM-7C/D/E that failed to hit enemy Migs mostly while the AIM-9B rear aspect missiles had more successful hits. The F-4B lacks the guns therefore it can't kill the Migs when it ran out of AIM-9B. The F-4B/C/D later had to carry external gun pod SUU-223 under wing without proper gun reticle. Newer F-4E/J variants came with internal guns.

For present era, fighters equipped with advanced AESA incorporated RWR, MAWS, ECM, ECCM could perform evasive maneuver well and spoof incoming missiles better. Also the stealth and low RCS reduced missiles effective range a lot bringing back visual range engagement. Even large new bombers will be fully stealth nowadays. You'll need guns to fire warning shots telling the stealth bomber to surrender or shoot it down as IR guided missiles are vital to keep them for self defense against F-22.

@Deino try come up with points like this rather than going personal with fault finding to ban someone you dislike

IMHO, the gun is near 100% confirmed since the J-20 is receiving TVC engines. It makes sense why the initial J-20s powered by the AL-31Fs did not receive one.

 

[kungfugymnast]

IMHO, the gun is near 100% confirmed since the J-20 is receiving TVC engines. It makes sense why the initial J-20s powered by the AL-31Fs did not receive one.

Good, the more powerful engine has enough thrust for J-20 to fit internal gun. It sure needs the gun & TVC

 

[Figaro]

For all who still think the J-20 is not a maneuverable fighter, akin to some dedicated interceptor, here is what the latest Pentagon report has to say about it. Some people just refuse to accept reality.

https://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/01/2002488689/-1/-1/1/2020-DOD-CHINA-MILITARY-POWER-REPORT-FINAL.PDF

 

[Figaro]

 

[Deino]

View attachment 666276

Nice, but already old (I think from March/April 2019) ... I would love to see more recent ones and even more first images of J-20As at Anshan.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Nice, but already old (I think from March/April 2019) ... I would love to see more recent ones and even more first images of J-20As at Anshan.

Yeah that photo from Wuhu hasn't changed in a year or so.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @空军在线 from Weixin

 

[Ali_Baba]

View attachment 666840
Via @空军在线 from Weixin

This is a beautful picture and shows the modern fighting force and, the sharp edge of the PLAAF in one go.

 

[Figaro]

Another production J-20 with WS-10X engines

 

[LKJ86]

Via @机外停车Rabbit from Weibo

 

[Grandy]

J-20 to be like a bee on radar

According to CCTV’s report on CETC, its experts are testing a special stealth equipment as small as a cigarette box, to make stealth fighters like a bee on radar.

It’s speculated that once the new equipment is developed, it would be applied to J-20 fighter.



Besides, CCTV also unveiled the corporation’s RCS measuring microwave chamber, which has a group of metal balls of different sizes. And its RCS standard ball is as big as an American football, indicating that J-20’s initial stealth performance is as good as F-22.

 

[Grandy]

J-20 has the highest lift coefficient and aerodynamic layout better than F-22: expert

Posted on August 25, 2020 by CAS editor



According to a report from China’s “Ordnance Science and Technology” magazine on August 24, prior to July 15, the State Intellectual Property Administration of China announced the results of the 21st China Patent Awards. And the appearance design patent of J-20’s “lifting body side strip canard wing layout” won the gold prize of China Patent Award.

The report quoted equipment expert from the Chinese Air Force – Fu Qianshao as saying that J-20 uses a lift body fuselage, canards, sidebars, wings, rear side rails, camber double ventral fins, and camber full-motion double vertical tails based on vortex control technology. If the design level is high and properly controlled, it will produce huge lift gains and drag reduction effects. And its lift coefficient is about 2.1 to 2.2, ranking the first in the world.

Fu Qianshao said that the conventionally deployed US F-22 fighter has a lift coefficient reported to be about 1.7 and a supersonic cruise zero-lift drag coefficient of about 0.035. China has used a high-precision scaled-down model for wind tunnel tests, and the measured data are similar to the reported numbers, proving that the lift and drag coefficients of J-20 are significantly better than those of the F-22.

According to the report, in the conventional layout, when tail flatting maneuver the aircraft to raise its head, it has to deflect downward to generate negative lift and press down the tails, which belongs to the loading rudder surface. However, after the aircraft has a positive angle of attack, it will partially offset the negative angle of attack for the flat tails, reducing its efficiency.

However, J-20 has a mid-to-late canard layout, with large canard wing areas and long distances from the wings, with a side strip transition in the middle, which can use the multi-vortex interference generated by different aerodynamic surfaces to improve the lift and drag characteristics of the aircraft, thereby improved its control torque.

In addition, J-20 has larger rear side rails, double camber ventral fins, and full-moving double vertical tails with a larger camber angle. At high angles of attack, the side rails of the rear aircraft can provide certain pitch stability and head-down moment; the camber double ventral fins are located in a low position and are not easily affected by wing turbulence, and can provide certain lateral stability and head-down moment; and due to the large effective rudder surface area, full-motion camber double vertical tails can also play a part in flatting tails.