Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Figaro]

I have doubt on whether the WS-10 version is going to adapt TVC.

Interesting ... why do you think so? Credible rumors are pointing in this direction.

 

[IblinI]

Interesting ... why do you think so? Credible rumors are pointing in this direction.

Pupu sound pretty certain that TVC will be applied on J20B but later he replied to another guy days later said the one in mass production Heard to be J20B, which means he is also not too sure.

 

[Figaro]

Pupu sound pretty certain that TVC will be applied on J20B but later he replied to another guy days later said the one in mass production Heard to be J20B, which means he is also not too sure.

I believe he thinks the next batch of J-20s will be called J-20B and feature TVC. Of course, he may not be 100% confident but I think he most likely is implying this. Also, there have been a couple of simultaneous reports saying the next batch will feature TVC (I believe one of the guys was the same person who first leaked the J-10B TVC's maiden flight back in 2017).

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2450666-3-1.html

 

[Safriz]

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...ocal-made-j-20b-stealth-fighter-aircraft.html

 

[kungfugymnast]

I think the J-20B just refers to the next batch of thrust increased (14.5t) WS-10s with TVC. J-20C will refer to the WS-15. I'd take the designations with a grain of salt though considering the 001A naming fiasco a couple of years ago.

I see. Any idea what will be the maximum thrust of this WS-10 with TVC? Wikipedia said WS-10G has 35,000lb that is considered ok for J-20 that is lighter than F-22 powered by 36,000lb F119/120 engines.

Pupu sound pretty certain that TVC will be applied on J20B but later he replied to another guy days later said the one in mass production Heard to be J20B, which means he is also not too sure.

Who is this pupu by the way? Military article journalist, military fan in China or he serves in the China military? If the WS-10 tuned to maximum thrust of 35,000lb, it is adequate for TVC. WS-15 40,000lb thrust is extra bonus for the raw power far beyond F-22.

 

[Figaro]

I see. Any idea what will be the maximum thrust of this WS-10 with TVC? Wikipedia said WS-10G has 35,000lb that is considered ok for J-20 that is lighter than F-22 powered by 36,000lb F119/120 engines.

14.5 tonnes of thrust ... the Wikipedia specs are out of date. The new WS-10 variant is a little more powerful than the 117S of the Su-35.

Who is this pupu by the way? Military article journalist, military fan in China or he serves in the China military? If the WS-10 tuned to maximum thrust of 35,000lb, it is adequate for TVC. WS-15 40,000lb thrust is extra bonus for the raw power far beyond F-22.

Very big shrimp with close ties to the PLAAF ... IIRC, he was a former PLAAF officer. As for the 35,000 lbf figure, it is inaccurate.

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...ocal-made-j-20b-stealth-fighter-aircraft.html

"According to information published by the South China Morning Post" - Please do not quote anything coming from this source, it is known for false and often contradictory information.

 

[kungfugymnast]

14.5 tonnes of thrust ... the Wikipedia specs are out of date. The new WS-10 variant is a little more powerful than the 117S of the Su-35.

Very big shrimp with close ties to the PLAAF ... IIRC, he was a former PLAAF officer. As for the 35,000 lbf figure, it is inaccurate.


"According to information published by the South China Morning Post" - Please do not quote anything coming from this source, it is known for false and often contradictory information.

I used converter and 14.5 tonnes of thrust is slightly less than 32,000lb. 35,000lb is around 15.9 tonnes of thrust as per Wikipedia info on WS-10G. Noted that this is inaccurate.

Noted on pupu the big shrimp.

South China Morning Post said China is speeding up construction of type 003 and 004 carriers with EMALS launch. Is the news fake?

 

[Deino]

China 5th Gen J-20B Breathing Down India’s Neck; Can Rafales, Sukhois Match The ‘Stealth’ Jet?​

China joins Russia and the US after an upgraded version of the Chinese J-20B stealth fighter jet formally entered mass production. This poses a big risk for neighbours like India, Japan and other ASEAN nations.

Chinese stealth fighter jet – J-20B has undergone an upgrade to finally classify itself as a full-fledged fifth-generation aircraft. In doing so, it now aims to directly challenge the US dominance led by F-35 and F-22 fighter jets and dominate its neighbours.

An upgraded version of the Chinese J-20B stealth fighter jet has formally entered mass production. The modification has earned it the title of being a fifth-generation fighter jet. Fifth-generation fighters are defined by their stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, super manoeuvrability, and highly integrated avionics.

Although J-20 has been on active duty since 2017, western aviation experts had described the jet as a “dedicated interceptor aircraft” because of its lack of agility. The modified J-20B was unveiled earlier this week. The ceremony was hosted by many senior military leaders including the Central Military Commission (CMC) vice-chairman General Zhang Youxia.

Speaking at the event, Zhang, who is also in charge of weapons development for the People’s Liberation Army, confirmed the mass production of the J-20B. He said that J-20B is now equipped with thrust vector control thus helping the jet achieve agility criteria required to ‘classify’ as a fifth-generation fighter jet.

Thrust vector control (TVC) allows pilots to better control the aircraft by redirecting engine thrust. Chinese advancement in TVC technology was first displayed in 2018 when Beijing debuted its J-10C multirole fighter at the air show in Zhuhai.

Besides challenging the US stealth fighter jets, the J-20s are anticipated to dominate the Asian skies and pose a direct challenge to soon to be acquired Japanese F-35s and Indian Rafale and other aircraft that New Delhi is in the process of acquiring.

J-20B vs F-35 and Rafale​

The mass production of J-20B has handed a massive boost to the Chinese Air Force. With adversaries like India, Japan and South Korea equipped with modern fighter jets such as Dassault Rafale and Lockheed Martin F-35, the original Chinese J-20 did not offer much competition.

However, with the mass production of J-20B, the Chinese Air Force would now have an aircraft that levels the playing field in the Asia-Pacific. According to experts, the J-20B could give a stiff challenge to the F-35s but would simply overwhelm the Taiwanese F-16s.


As EurAsian Times reported earlier, the US recently approved the sale of 105 F-35 joint strike fighters to Japan at an estimated cost of $23 billion. The approved package includes 63 F-35A conventional takeoff and landing aircraft and 42 F-35 short takeoff and landing variants as part of a December 2018 decision by Japan to increase its procurement of F-35s from 42 to 147.

India is set to receive 36 Rafale from France and would be purchasing more hi-tech jets as part of the MMRCA contract. This led to Beijing speeding up its own fighter jet program, experts argue.

Although the current J-20B is currently powered by Russian Saturn AL-31 engines, Beijing aims to power the jet with its domestic WS-15 engine.

Chinese engineers have been developing high-thrust turbofan WS-15 engines for the J-20 and it is expected to be ready in the next one to two years. The ultimate goal is to equip the J-20B fighter jets with domestic engines.

Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), which manufactures the J-20s, has already received ‘heavy orders’ from the PLA. CAC set up its fourth production line in 2019, each one with a capacity to make about one J-20 a month.

Once China is able to power its J-20B fighter jet with Chinese made engines, it will only become the third country after the United States and Russia to have a fully indigenously developed fifth-generation fighter jet.

Source: https://eurasiantimes.com/after-us-...fully-indigenous-5th-generation-jet-in-j-20b/

----------------------------------------------------​

So basically, now that CAC has 4 Production Lines, they can pump out Four J-20B's each Month.

04 by July
08 by August
12 by September
16 by October
20 by November
24 by December (if they want).

@LKJ86 @Beast

Pure BS hyped up from that stupid SCMP report.

 

[Figaro]

Pure BS hyped up from that stupid SCMP report.

I don't like SCMP or Minnie Chan but I think it's pretty pathetic for the Eurasian Times to rip off her report, however false, without giving proper accreditation.

 

[kungfugymnast]

I don't like SCMP or Minnie Chan but I think it's pretty pathetic for the Eurasian Times to rip off her report, however false, without giving proper accreditation.

Although the news is inaccurate but some of the points are right though such as building more J-20 to counter the rising threat from F-35 and F-22 instead of Rafale. The right counter for Rafale would be FC-31 for export market such as Pakistan that would face IAF Rafale & later F-16 with more US weapons purchases. The engine part is definitely wrong.

 

[pkd]

Shenyang’s losing J-20 design Snow Owl is officially revealed
Posted on July 21, 2020

Shenyang’s losing submission for the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) stealth fighter competition has been revealed officially for the first time.

China Central Television (CCTV) has produced a second series of its documentary Memory of Military Industry – 军工记忆 – and in episode five, the subject was the Shenyang J-11.

In the video, viewers were taken to a gallery with models of aircraft in the hall. On the wall was the Snow Owl, Shenyang’s project name for the 4th generation fighter it had proposed to the military.

The aircraft has a main double delta wing with tailplane and the addition of canards at the front. The design philosophy then was to achieve maneuverability over stealth. The PLAAF had set a requirement for 60 degrees angle of attack, similar to the F-22. To reach the goal, the designer Li Tian chose the three-wing layout. It is said that the Snow Owl had an angle of attack of up to 65 degrees during wing tunnel testing.

However, the shape of the aircraft lead to several weaknesses. First, the selection of the double delta creates a possible reflector for radar returns on the leading edge. In order to have three sets of wings, the fuselage is much longer compared to the J-20. This lead to heavier weights and increase demands on the engines. To reduce the overall weight, engineers at Shenyang reduce the size of the radome. This size of the radar was therefore smaller compared to Chengdu’s winning design.
http://alert5.com/2020/07/21/shenyangs-losing-j-20-design-snow-owl-is-officially-revealed/

 

[Ultima Thule]

Shenyang’s losing J-20 design Snow Owl is officially revealed
Posted on July 21, 2020

Shenyang’s losing submission for the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) stealth fighter competition has been revealed officially for the first time.

China Central Television (CCTV) has produced a second series of its documentary Memory of Military Industry – 军工记忆 – and in episode five, the subject was the Shenyang J-11.

In the video, viewers were taken to a gallery with models of aircraft in the hall. On the wall was the Snow Owl, Shenyang’s project name for the 4th generation fighter it had proposed to the military.

The aircraft has a main double delta wing with tailplane and the addition of canards at the front. The design philosophy then was to achieve maneuverability over stealth. The PLAAF had set a requirement for 60 degrees angle of attack, similar to the F-22. To reach the goal, the designer Li Tian chose the three-wing layout. It is said that the Snow Owl had an angle of attack of up to 65 degrees during wing tunnel testing.

However, the shape of the aircraft lead to several weaknesses. First, the selection of the double delta creates a possible reflector for radar returns on the leading edge. In order to have three sets of wings, the fuselage is much longer compared to the J-20. This lead to heavier weights and increase demands on the engines. To reduce the overall weight, engineers at Shenyang reduce the size of the radome. This size of the radar was therefore smaller compared to Chengdu’s winning design.

Source please, without posting source is against the forum rules, bro

 

[Figaro]

SAC's losing design for the fifth generation fighter

Documentary link

 

[IblinI]

SAC's losing design for the fifth generation fighter

View attachment 652972

Documentary link

I don't see it being longer than J20, but ofc, just my feeling.

 

[S10]

CCTV revealed J-20 could fly 52km in a minute assuming they were not mistaken. Let's do some simple math.

52km X 60 mins = 3120km/hr
Mach 1 = 1234.8km/hr
3210/1234.8 = Mach 2.52

This is with WS-10B or AL-31FM2 engine, both with higher bypass ratio than WS-15. It's going to be a speed demon once WS-15 is fitted in a few years.